Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines (TSNAs)

[aeternusjunk]

Ok, I have yet to find any reliable information on this, so maybe someone can enlighten me. I'll keep smoking e-cigs either way. I just like to know what risks I'm taking.

As far as I can tell, e-cigs have significantly lower levels of TSNAs, but the exact amounts vary from report to report. What is the threshold for dangerous levels? TSNAs are formed in the processing of tobacco, does this mean that it would be possible to process tobacco differently to eliminate them? e-liquid presumably is derived from tobacco leaves, is there another source of nicotine with no TSNAs? I would rather vap a pure synthetic than a natural poison. If I knew how, I'd genetically engineer some bacteria to do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, inform me where I need to be. Thanks!

 

[v1John]

This question is possibly better for the medical tech subforum, but here is study with various charts and tables:

Smoke versus Vapor - Nitrosamine Levels

 

[v1John]

I could probably vape over 1,000 cigarette equivalents to equal the nicotine harm from one tobacco cigarette, just a wild guess. Couldn't I? (That's just nicotine, then I do without tar, CO, amonia, etc.)

My sig. said I've avoided 631 analog so far as I post this, and I feel so much better, I feel better than having avoided smoking 8,000 mg. of tar and 8,000 mg. of Cmonoxide.

 

[JoeD4]

Been vaping 3 months and I just feel "Better" over-all.

 

[Kate51]

Tobacco specific nitrosamines is just one of the carcinogenic components of cigarette smoking. However, nitrosimines are found in vegetables, tomatoes, and other members of the nightshade family, carrots, etc. The amount of TSNA's found in nicotine are in the range of 2 parts per billion, as found in e-juice with the FDA testing last fall, which is a very tiny amount. They are also present in any tobacco-based nicotine reduction therapy, such as patches and gums in the same ratio, just by the nature of the beast nicotine. Link below for more info,

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/80069-three-facts-2-myths-about-nicotine.html

Do a search of Threads for TSNA's, there are quite a few.

 

[Windsage]

When the FDA tested 18 carts they found what they referred to as "detectable" levels of TSNAs. They did not report what their detection limits were. The amounts in normal cigs vary but are quite high.

The FDA report also used the Pfizer inhaler as a comparison, but did not test its contents for TSNAs. However, Pfizer's specifications for the inhaler states that they can contain up to 0.5% of three different TNSAs.

Not knowing what the detection limit is creates the question of what were the real numbers. I think it is safe to assume that 0.5% is well above the detection limit, since 0.5% is 5,000 ppm, and is nearly as much as a normal cig.

That said, I would have to wonder if the units tested by the FDA weren't actually less harmful than the Pfizer inhaler.

One area where I think everyone can agree is that there is a need for legitimate testing and quality control. Unfortunately in today's anti-anything that looks like smoking political environment that's probably never going to happen.

Keep in mind that cigar shaped bubble gum has been removed from the shelves while bubblegum shaped like pills or bugs is just fine.

 

[Kate51]

I seem to recall the units used in the FDA testing were in PPB!! Am trying to find a link.

Untitled Document

There are three more links at the bottom of page of interest.
I may be wrong, the FDA may have been PartsPerTrillion, if I'm reading correctly.

 

[5cardstud]

Plant species with highest amount
Nicotiana tabacum L. -- Tobacco; 20,000 - 40,000 ppm in Leaf;
Equisetum arvense L. -- Field Horsetail, Horsetail; 0.4 ppm in Plant;
Apium graveolens L. -- Celery; in Plant;
Asclepias syriaca L. -- Milkweed; in Sprout Seedling;
Atropa bella-donna L. -- Belladonna; in Leaf;
Carica papaya L. -- Papaya; in Plant;
Datura stramonium L. -- Jimsonweed; in Plant;
Duboisia myoporoides R. BR. -- Corkwood Tree, Pituri; in Leaf;
Erythroxylum coca var. coca -- Coca; in Leaf;
Huperzia spp -- Cutleaf Clubmoss; in Plant;
Juglans regia L. -- English Walnut; in Leaf;
Lycopodium clavatum L. -- Antler Herb, Clubmoss; in Pollen Or Spore;
Mucuna pruriens (L.) DC. -- Cowage, Velvetbean; in Seed;
Nicotiana glauca R. GRAH. -- Tree Tobacco; in Leaf;
Nicotiana rustica L. -- Aztec Tobacco; in Leaf;
Solanum tuberosum L. -- Potato; in Plant;
Withania somnifera (L.) DUNAL -- Ashwagandha; in Root;

 

[v1John]

I seem to recall the units used in the FDA testing were in PPB!! Am trying to find a link.

It really is small.
From the charts in the link I provided above, the nanograms are per gram (!),
except for gum and patch which are per piece. So I think I would need 100 of the 10mg. ecigs to even start considering the 2 to 8 nanograms, right? Look at the charts in the link on the second post of this thread.

 

[Kate51]

It really is small.

From the charts in the link I provided above, the nanograms are per gram (!),

except for gum and patch which are per piece. So I think I would need 100 of the 10mg. ecigs to even start considering the 2 to 8 nanograms, right? Look at the charts in the link on the second post of this thread.

v1John, this is what I found:
From Ruyan e-cig cartridge report, Laugeson, NZ

Table 2.2 Tobacco specific nitrosamines (TSNAs) in the cartridge liquid of the Ruyan ® e-cigarette, November 2007
Nicotine Sample NNN NAT NAB NNK TSNAs
Per ID (ng/cartridge) (ng/cartridge) (ng/cartridge) (ng/cartridge) ng/cartridge
Cartridge Observation Observation Observation Observation total
0 mg 073277 BDL BDL NQ 0.260 0.260
6 mg 073278 1.42 1.02 BDL 0.628 3.068
11 mg 073279 1.83 1.36 NQ 1.01 4.200
16 mg 073280 3.87 2.16 0.693 1.46 8.183
Labstat 200713. Average TSNAs 3.928
BDL = Below the limit of detection. NQ = Not quantifiable.
TSNA = tobacco specific nitrosamines. NAB= nitrosoanabasine
NNN= nitrosonornicotine, NAT= nitrosoanatabine,
NNK= 4-nitrosomethylamino-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanone
Comment. 1) Tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs) were found, equal to 8 ng, in the 1
g of liquid of the 16 mg cartridge. This amount is extremely small, equal for example, to
the amount reported to be present in a nicotine medicinal patch. (8 ng in 1g = eight parts
per trillion).
2) These very small amounts traces are likely to be due to the fact that even medicinal
grade nicotine is extracted from tobacco.

 

[.gregory]

interesting thread- deserves a bit of a bump. in my relatively small amount of research, i have come to the following conclusion; that tobacco is not inherently carcinogenic and that the nitrosomine levels in tobacco increase when the tobacco is heated, whether that be during the curing process (smokeless tobacco) or when burning (ie. cigarette, cigar). knowing that many e-liquid blenders are using raw leaf as a base for their liquids and that the tobacco is generally boiled down....i imagine the charts previously are arbitrary, as it does not taking into account whether the nicotine was pharmaceutical or "organic. i also imagine that using tobacco as a base would, because of the boiling process, increase the level of nitrosamines. i may be 100% incorrect on this, but i'm sure most of us quit smoking for these reasons....

 

[TezJaguar]

gregory TSNAs form from microbial reduction of nitrate into nitrite, the nitrite then reacts with the alkaloids. The other way TSNAs form is from fire and flue curing. The nitrogen oxides from the exhaust of the heat source reacts with the alkaloids. Fresh green tobacco has at least less than .025 ppm TSNAs that is over 100 times less than swedish snus. I haven't found the exact amount of TSNA in green tobacco but it is probably on par with nicotine replacement products. I'm pretty sure that boiling would be killing the microbes that are the perpetrators of the TSNAs.

Heat-Pump-Dehumidification During the Curing of Flue-Cured Tobacco