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TPA: confusing % recommandations?

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by thedesbois, Oct 27, 2014.

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  1. thedesbois

    thedesbois Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2012
    Montreal, Canada
    Hello,

    I've been at DIY for almost two years now. In the past I would simply order pre-mixed liquid flavors from TPA, FA etc. and mix them in my bases at 5-10% total flavorings. I like not too much flavors.

    Recently, with the "diacetyl issue", I've been looking more closely at flavors composition. I also vape a lot of high VG flavor free juice. But sometimes I want a little flavor. So I ordered some flavor molecules in the form of crystals. Nothing very exotic, the usual suspects: vanillin, ethyl vanillin, ethyl maltol, maltol etc.from TPA.

    What confuses me is that the recommendations on TPA's website for maximum concentration in flavor is not consistent with most of the flavor they sell. I've emailed them about this and I hope I'll get an answer soon. In the meantime, I'm stuck.

    Here's an example:

    Vanillin


    From TPA's website (https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/p-6237-vanillin-crystals.aspx)

    Vanillin Crystals
    base note - V.P .2
    Intensely sweet and very tenacious creamy vanilla odor
    CAS # 121-33-5
    FEMA # 3107
    can use up to 8% of total fragrance concentrate
    40ppm in flavor

    What I understand from this is that one can use a maximum of 40ppm in "flavor". Do they mean the flavor concentrate to be diluted in e-juice? Or final e-juice?

    My guess is neither. Here's why:

    One of the flavor they sell, Vanilla Swirl (Perfumer's Apprentice)

    Vanilla Swirl Flavor

    [TABLE="width: 500"]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMPONENT [/TD]
    [TD]CAS [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Propylene Glycol[/TD]
    [TD]57-55-6[/TD]
    [TD]>= 10%[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Ethyl Vanillin[/TD]
    [TD]121-32-4[/TD]
    [TD]>= 10%[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Vanillin [/TD]
    [TD]121-33-5[/TD]
    [TD]>= 10%[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Ethyl Maltol[/TD]
    [TD]4940-11-8[/TD]
    [TD]>= 1% and < 10%[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]etc.[/TD]
    [TD]...[/TD]
    [TD]...[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    So if one was to follow the previous 40 ppm recommendation for Vanillin and assume that the 40 ppm max. applies to the final e-juice to be vaped, one would have to mix the Vanilla Swirl Flavor, assuming it contains only 10% of Vanillin (100 000 ppm), at a final concentration in the e-juice of 0.004% (40 ppm of Vanillin). I know of no DIYer who'd use Vanilla Swirl Flavor at such a low %.

    What are those "xxx ppm in the flavor" recommendations for? All the ones I've looked at would end up mixing flavors they are in in minuscule amounts.

    I use to mix a flavor like Vanilla Swirl at 3% along with other vanilla flavors. Just that single one would give me a minimum of 3000 ppm of Vanillin in my ejuice. :ohmy:

    Can anyone help me with this one?

    Many thanks!
     
  2. thedesbois

    thedesbois Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2012
    Montreal, Canada
    Well I guess you can remove this thread or leave it for others as information.

    I got a reply from TPA in the form of a phone call from Linda at TPA. Wow. Talk about excellent customer service!

    What she told me is that the max. ppm recommendations listed on TPA's website do come from the fragrance industry and are in no way related to flavoring. And as their flavorings go, they are not made for use in vaping. It would be impossible to recommend ppm of any flavor molecule for use in vaping as no study has never been done for such end usage.

    So basically it boils down to "use at your own risk" and in concentrations that you like for your own taste.

    Hopefully some studies will be done in the future on specific molecules that are used for vaping.

    In the meantime, I'll mostly vape flavor free and low flavor % DIY ejuices.
     
  3. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 30, 2011
    All over the place
    Yeah, TPA (and in general, Linda) is pretty amazing!
     
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