Trying to get into high-end but information is scarce at best

[Letitia]

High end RTAs

 

[order]

Dani 25 with kayfun:

That's exactly what I was thinking about. Are you happy with that setup?

 

[stols001]

You know, if the triad appeals to you and totally meets your needs, really, you don't HAVE to go on a quest for more.

Some of my favorite mods were not always the most expensive ones. Honestly.

If you have found something that "suits" you it doesn't matter ONE whit what it costs (well, especially in the less expensive direction.)

Anna

 

[Zaryk]

Series will increase operating voltage, which will decrease current draw… I = P/V. If your cut off voltage for a single cell is 3.2 volts, 60 watts would draw 20 amps. Dual series, the actual cut off would be double, given the combined voltage of the 2 cells at 6.4 volts - so the current draw using the same 60 watts is only 10 amps.

Dual parallel will give the same cut off voltage as a single cell, but current draw is split across the 2 cells – so 60 watts on a dual parallel would yield roughly 10 amp draw

Further benefits with dual cells on a regulated device is that you are decreasing battery sag (or voltage drop…however you want to describe it), over a single cell at the same power usage. This will mean the low voltage cut off feature is not tripped prematurely.

In theory, both dual series and parallel with a regulated device should yield roughly double the run time.

Dual parallel regulated devices are rare – only ones I’ve seen are DNA75(c), and this is because the board was designed to operate at between 3 and 4.2 volts. A dual series would exceed this operating voltage. Where a dna 250C, for comparison, it’s operating voltage is 6 volts to 16.8 volts (for a quad cell device)

I trust your judgement on this. I don't use regulated devices and have no interest in learning more than I already know about them. I just know my mechs, and only messed with a series mech for a couple days before finding it wasn't my style and selling it. I have done some series and parallel airsoft builds, and series definitely didn't extend the battery life much in that application (it did help a little, but nowhere near the parallel run time on the same 11.1v 95c lipos).

 

[Mordacai]

@order, completely forgot about Steam Craves new Hadron 220 mod.
Hadron 220,Hadron 220

Dual 21700 and supposedly a Squonk add on is coming soon.

And personally I'd lean more towards Atmizoo RBA's due to their excellent designs and attention to the vaping experience with an emphasis on flavour.

 

[evan le'garde]

I checked out those TurnwoodFX mods. They are very nice. All added to the A-Z.

 

[Baditude]

The thing that I forgot to mention is that I'm not sure a single battery would suffice my usage. While I do vape at a lower wattage a pair of 18650 can not last me a day. I always put in my second pair in the afternoon. So if I did have a single 21700 mod I'd probably have to replace the battery at least two times a day which would be kinda annoying.

For me it's not about exotic setups. I'm mostly running single coil. It's more about having an all day device. I'm a chain vaper and even at 50-60W a dual 18650 mod lasts me around 10 hours. So it's not about the power as much as it is about the convenience of not swapping batteries. Ultimately my endgame would be to have a dual or triple 18650 DNA mod + a dripper and a tube single 21700 mod like a Dani 25 + an MTL tank like a Kayfun to run at low wattages.

Here's my practical experience:

I have found my wattage "sweet spot" to be 25-30 watts, preferably with a 0.5 ohm coil (for what that's worth in a regulated mod, which is almost irrelevant).

I have used the 3-battery Wismec RX200, the 2-battery Segelei 213 Plus Fuschai , and my current single battery JAC Vapour DNA75W. I used the same 3000mah 15-20 amp batteries in all three mods (Samsung 30Q and LG HG2). All three mods allowed me about 10 - 12 hours of vaping time and required a battery change before the end of the day.

Didn't make much sense to me, so I asked my buddy Battery Mooch what was going on. He wasn't sure, but offered that factors to be considered would be each individual model's chip battery efficiency and low voltage cutoff would be different. I attributed the better performance of the single battery JAC Vapour to it's DNA chipset apparently being more battery efficient and with a lower voltage cutoff to the multiple battery mods.

If I'm going to get the same battery life from my everyday mod, obviously I'm going to go with the one that's most compact and pocket friendly, and is lighter in weight.

I've never used a larger battery than an 18650, so I can't comment about their longivity per charge.

Now, everyone else's experience may turn out to be different from mine, but that is what has been my experience. I take it for granted that I'm going to need to replace my battery(s) at least once a day, so I carry a pair of charged 18650 batteries with me when I leave the house for the day.

 

[order]

Here's my practical experience:

I have found my wattage "sweet spot" to be 25-30 watts, preferably with a 0.5 ohm coil.

I have used the 3-battery Wismec RX200, the 2-battery Segelei 213 Plus Fuschai , and my current single battery JAC Vapour DNA75W. I used the same 3000mah 15-20 amp batteries in all three mods (Samsung 30Q and LG HG2). All three mods allowed me about 10 - 12 hours of vaping time and required a battery change before the end of the day.

Didn't make much sense to me, so I asked my buddy Battery Mooch what was going on. He wasn't sure, but offered that factors to be considered would be each individual model's chip battery efficiency and low voltage cutoff would be different. I attributed the better performance of the single battery JAC Vapour to it's DNA chipset apparently being more battery efficient and with a lower voltage cutoff to the multiple battery mods.

If I'm going to get the same battery life from my everyday mod, obviously I'm going to go with the one that's most compadct and pocket friendly, and is lighter in weight.

I've never used a larger battery than an 18650, so I can't comment about their longivity per charge.

Now, everyone else's experience may turn out to be different from mine, but that is what has been my experience. I take it for granted that I'm going to need to replace my battery(s) at least once a day, so I carry a pair of charged 18650 batteries with me when I leave the house for the day.

While there is some solid info reguarding battery efficiency on DNA chips (98% on 250C which is incredible) on my personal mods there's barely if any info about that. I have an Aegis Legend Limited and a Vandy Vape swell, 2 mainstream affordable mods. I can't know their efficiency so that could be the part of the equation that's the make it or break it as far as battery life goes.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Here's my practical experience:

I have found my wattage "sweet spot" to be 25-30 watts, preferably with a 0.5 ohm coil.

I have used the 3-battery Wismec RX200, the 2-battery Segelei 213 Plus Fuschai , and my current single battery JAC Vapour DNA75W. I used the same 3000mah 15-20 amp batteries in all three mods (Samsung 30Q and LG HG2). All three mods allowed me about 10 - 12 hours of vaping time and required a battery change before the end of the day.

Didn't make much sense to me, so I asked my buddy Battery Mooch what was going on. He wasn't sure, but offered that factors to be considered would be each individual model's chip battery efficiency and low voltage cutoff would be different. I attributed the better performance of the single battery JAC Vapour to it's DNA chipset apparently being more battery efficient and with a lower voltage cutoff to the multiple battery mods.

If I'm going to get the same battery life from my everyday mod, obviously I'm going to go with the one that's most compadct and pocket friendly, and is lighter in weight.

I've never used a larger battery than an 18650, so I can't comment about their longivity per charge.

Now, everyone else's experience may turn out to be different from mine, but that is what has been my experience. I take it for granted that I'm going to need to replace my battery(s) at least once a day, so I carry a pair of charged 18650 batteries with me when I leave the house for the day.

Great example of different run times between different devices. Couldn’t find efficiency for the Wismec and Segelei, but the DNA75 spec is 85% (+/- a few %). The cut off voltage for the RX200 is actually a little higher than normal at 3.4 volts, the Segelei, 3.2 volts and the DNA75 is minimum 3 volts. The DNA allows the user to adjust the cut off voltage but it cannot go below it’s minimum operating voltage of 3 volts. If you connect to Escribe, you will be able to see what it’s cut off voltage is under the Mod/Battery tab.

Using the same 3000 mAh cells as you, and a DNA250C circuit, my 3 cell Lost Vape Triade DNA250C yields approx. 50% more run time than my 2 cell Lost Vape Paranormal DNA250C at the same wattage with the same cut off voltage of 3.2 volts per cell. The DNA250C board has a minimum 6 volt operating voltage so a single cell cannot be used, and cannot be compared. Its efficiency is also different than the DNA75(C), 98% vs 85% respectively.

Should all else be equal (efficiency, cut off voltage) a multi cell device will give longer run time for the same prescribed wattage given its lower current draw and less battery voltage sag. A dual 18650 vs a single 21700 would have to be further analyzed for run time could sway in favour to either device depending on cell being used…again, assuming device efficiency and cut off voltage is equal.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

While there is some solid info reguarding battery efficiency on DNA chips (98% on 250C which is incredible) on my personal mods there's barely if any info about that. I have an Aegis Legend Limited and a Vandy Vape swell, 2 mainstream affordable mods. I can't know their efficiency so that could be the part of the equation that's the make it or break it as far as battery life goes.

Evolv is one of the very few companies that disclose such detailed specifications for their circuits. Yihi is another. I have not seen efficiency specifications from the majority of Chinese made boards, but they are all pretty close between 80 and 90%, which may not be that great of a difference depending on usage. The 10% difference between 90 and 80% efficiency running at 60 watts equates to an additional 8 watts being used by the later. Given the many variables involved you probably would not notice any additional run time.

 

[Zaryk]

I am currently testing this runtime thing. I have a sigelei fuchai 2/3 with both the two and three battery covers that I am testing 2 vs 3 battery. I figure, this will eliminate the chip efficiency and cutoff limits. I'll report back with my findings on that.

I kind of wish I had the wismec luxotic mf to test 1 vs 2 battery in one mod to rule out the efficiency and cutoff limits.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I am currently testing this runtime thing. I have a sigelei fuchai 2/3 with both the two and three battery covers that I am testing 2 vs 3 battery. I figure, this will eliminate the chip efficiency and cutoff limits. I'll report back with my findings on that.

I kind of wish I had the wismec luxotic mf to test 1 vs 2 battery in one mod to rule out the efficiency and cutoff limits.

Your Sigelei would make for a good test – same device/circuit but with the option to run 2 or 3 batteries. Efficiency and cut off voltage are therefore ruled out as a variable assuming the same batteries (hopefully all healthy), wattage and coil are being used for both tests. I bring the coil resistance into account because these devices are not the most accurate, and any difference in resistance could result in a difference in output despite we have set the same wattage. We can see this in effect with the objective measurements from DJLsb and PBusardo.

Efficiency is also not a static specification. The 98% efficient specification from the DNA250C is best case scenario – it maybe 95% at 50 watts, or 80% at 100 watts….or vise versa. We do not know unless hooked up to a scope and objectively measured.

Comparing a single vs dual cell circuit from the same company is not what I would consider an objective test, even though we can form a subjective opinion. The 2 circuits must be designed differently given the vast difference in operating voltage, even if they are using the same controller microchip.

 

[Daniel Forsyth]

To tell the truth, currently I just bought Gen from Vaporesso when I wander around in a shop in France.
It is high end ones, I am still not very familar with it, since it has been 4 years since my vaping life begins. I restart vaping 2 months ago.

The features I feel most are that:
1. Great build quality (still need to prove after I use longer)
2. color looks great(Which is the reason I bought it,lol)
3. Good power mode performance（before this one, I used Q16, but I like this one better)
4. Good TC performance
5. The price is not very high(Since I just gain more salary,I need to save money
View attachment 852887

Hope my share will be helpful to you~~

I still need to use more to test if very good or not! if you have good ones, also could recommend to me!!!

Have a look at the range of Asmodus mods, they will tick all your boxes and then some

 

[Zaryk]

Here is what I found. This is in no way a scientific test, just a general observation.

Mod- Sigelei Fuchai 2/3 @70w
RTA- Reload w/ bubble glass w/ 0.2 ohm build
Batteries- Married set of three Samsung 25R charged to 4.2v

2 battery mode.
After one tank full the batteries were at
3.90v
3.90v

After two tanks full the batteries were at
3.58v
3.57v

3 battery mode.
After one tank full the batteries were at
3.93v
3.93v
3.92v

After two tanks full the batteries were at
3.64v
3.64v
3.63v

So the extra battery added roughly ~10% more run time. I personally think it is because the extra battery reduces battery sag, so this increase could be more dramatic when going from one battery to two batteries.

 

[Skunk!]

So far I've set my goal to a few mods:
Cheapest option : Lost Vape Paranormal DNA250C
More expensive : Custom Asmodus Lustro 200W stabilized wood
Most expensive : TurnwoodFX Cali 21700 DNA75C handmade.

I'm basically getting one of those 3, still not sure which one. Might go with the Lost Vape cuz it seems to be the best performance per dollar.

Now for tanks. I'd really like to get a nice MTL tank, something like the kayfun lite 2019 or better ( no idea what yet).

And I'd really like to get a quality dripper around 25-26mm. Perhaps dual coil but really doesn't matter as long as the flavor is good ( around 100-150$). That's how far I've gotten so far with my christmas shopping list lol.

Asmodus Thor 2 is a DNA75C 21700. I have 2 of them. They are great mods.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Here is what I found. This is in no way a scientific test, just a general observation.

Mod- Sigelei Fuchai 2/3 @70w
RTA- Reload w/ bubble glass w/ 0.2 ohm build
Batteries- Married set of three Samsung 25R charged to 4.2v

2 battery mode.
After one tank full the batteries were at
3.90v
3.90v

After two tanks full the batteries were at
3.58v
3.57v

3 battery mode.
After one tank full the batteries were at
3.93v
3.93v
3.92v

After two tanks full the batteries were at
3.64v
3.64v
3.63v

So the extra battery added roughly ~10% more run time. I personally think it is because the extra battery reduces battery sag, so this increase could be more dramatic when going from one battery to two batteries.

Fair assessment and kudos for your efforts.

Less voltage sag is one factor why more cells would yield a longer run time. But keep in mind, to achieve less voltage sag on the same cell, you need to decrease its current draw. And less current draw equates to higher amp hours which in turn equates to longer run time. Mooch’s CDR plots display this.

I suspect if you were to drain both the 2 and 3 cell config down to the devices low voltage cut off you would see a greater difference between the 2.

In Mooch’s Series/Parallel video he somewhat touches on the subject of why some dual cell regulated devices do not yield a 2X increase in run time vs a single cell of a different device. It’s all dependent on the design of the devices under evaluation. But to note, he does state (assuming all is equal), dual cells would be 2X the run time of a single cell and 3 cells would be 50% greater than a dual. (near the end of the video)

 

[Zaryk]

Fair assessment and kudos for your efforts.

Less voltage sag is one factor why more cells would yield a longer run time. But keep in mind, to achieve less voltage sag on the same cell, you need to decrease its current draw. And less current draw equates to higher amp hours which in turn equates to longer run time. Mooch’s CDR plots display this.

I suspect if you were to drain both the 2 and 3 cell config down to the devices low voltage cut off you would see a greater difference between the 2.

In Mooch’s Series/Parallel video he somewhat touches on the subject of why some dual cell regulated devices do not yield a 2X increase in run time vs a single cell of a different device. It’s all dependent on the design of the devices under evaluation. But to note, he does state (assuming all is equal), dual cells would be 2X the run time of a single cell and 3 cells would be 50% greater than a dual. (near the end of the video)

You are right, there was about a 2-3% more energy drain on tank two than the first tank so going longer would have made a little bit more difference. I did drain the 2 battery mode set up all the way down, but on the 3 battery set up I ended up with a leak from the tank on the third fill so that data was not viable, so I just posted what I could fairly compare.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

You are right, there was about a 2-3% more energy drain on tank two than the first tank so going longer would have made a little bit more difference. I did drain the 2 battery mode set up all the way down, but on the 3 battery set up I ended up with a leak from the tank on the third fill so that data was not viable, so I just posted what I could fairly compare.

Damn leaks always spoil the fun!

 

[Zaryk]

Damn leaks always spoil the fun!

It has been quite a while since I built on a tank, and I guess I thinned the rayon a touch too much. After some use it shrunk just enough to end testing.

But in a side note, I sure am glad to be back on my RDA and squonk mod! Tanks and regulated mods are just not my cup of tea.

 

[Daniel Forsyth]

Have you used Gen mode before??

No I haven't