EU UK - NICE consultation issues

[rolygate]

This broadly speaking has a knock-on effect on legislation in the UK.

ECCA UK, the e-cigarette consumer group equivalent to CASAA, is a stakeholder in the national health service's advisory procedure on tobacco harm reduction. In actual fact this is one of those 'in name only' situations because the process is run by the establishment, and the establishment is run by the pharma industry and a need to protect the jobs of those employed in the tobacco/health part of the NHS.

However, there are probably a few reasons why ECCA should contribute, if not with any real hope of fixing an entirely corrupt process.

ECCA UK News

 

[Tom09]

Don’t know if this letter is already posted, could be of interest for the UK situation.
Earl Howe, Department of Health, Jul 2011, letter addressing Government’s position on harm reduction, regulation.

 

[Vocalek]

Interesting. I just finished putting together my presentation to the FDA for the August 25-26 public workshop on Modified Risk Tobacco Products. I spend a portion of my allocated 7 minutes advocating for including tobacco / nicotine consumers in the decision process.

The Tobacco Products Scientific Advisory Committee (TPSAC) has no consumer seat allocated. All the other FDA scientific advisory committees (and there are many) have a seat set aside for consumer representation. The FDA can claim that they are following the letter of the law, because the Tobacco Act describes the required make-up of the Tobacco Products SAC and somehow the lawmakers forgot that consumers might provide some valuable insights. Nevertheless, there is nothing stopping FDA from giving the "member of the public" seat to a consumer.

 

[rolygate]

Thanks Tom, that is useful. It is interesting to see how the DoH's two-level representation, in the Commons and Lords, works out in practice. Howe's reply is impressively knowledgeable so perhaps it was written for him by his secretary in the ministry. Perhaps we should talk to Stoddart.

The letter clearly hints at the way e-cigarettes are intended to come under the wing of the MHRA.

 

[rolygate]

I'm sure you'd love to sit on such a committee, Elaine... It's a surreal experience, because they have constructed their own world where bureaucratic procedures and protecting the status quo are somehow the be-all and end-all of it - the effect on actual people is something that seems to take place in another world and has no real importance. It probably helps to ingest a mind-altering substance before going to these meetings otherwise they are just far too crazy.

 

[Vocalek]

Well, I have already attended two TPSAC public meetings, one FDA CDER public hearing (onlong-term user of NRTs, regulated by the FDA Center for Drug Evaluation and Research,) and the meeting where an IOM scientific committee was discussing standards for modified risk tobacco products, so I know what you mean about surreal. What was really surreal were the other public speakers who spouted mind-blowing truth-twisting "facts."

Example: "Dissolvable tobacco products are a major cause of pediatric poisonings." Uh-huh. All smokeless products combined caused less than 1% of pediatric poison exposures in 2009. In 10 years on the market, he could only find one case of a pediatric (under age 5) poison report (out of more than 70,000 tobacco poisoning exposures) caused by a dissolvable tobacco product. In what dictionary would I find a definition of "major" that fits this situation?

"One death is one death too many," he shouts. Wouldn't there need to first be that ONE death for there to be one death too many? There have been zero deaths from any type of tobacco product in the ages 5 and under crowd during the past 10 years.

It makes your head spin around so fast that we need to call in the Exorcist.

 

[Demarko]

"One death is too many" sounds nice on paper, but people DO die EVERY year from things that are generally regarded as safe - we aren't taking swimming away from people, or walking under trees.

ETA: After all, I saw my parents walk under a tree... And I've seen people do it on tv! If I was a kid, I might decide it was safe, too. And then WHAM! Branch breaks off, coconut falls, whatever ... And I'm dead!

 

[rothenbj]

"One death is too many" sounds nice on paper, but people DO die EVERY year from things that are generally regarded as safe - we aren't taking swimming away from people, or walking under trees.

ETA: After all, I saw my parents walk under a tree... And I've seen people do it on tv! If I was a kid, I might decide it was safe, too. And then WHAM! Branch breaks off, coconut falls, whatever ... And I'm dead!

It's hard not to walk under a tree on on my property, 5 acres, mostly trees. My gf's brother in law was killed a couple weeks ago by a dead branch from the neighbor's tree. Now I'm hearing about trees all the time. What's worse I've got one dying right on the driveway leaning the wrong direction and we know S** happens.

 

[Vocalek]

Oh great, now you tell me. We bought 18 acres of wooded land on which to build our retirement home.

So, Jimmie, share your secret. Was your new avatar Photoshopped, or did you loan your e-cig to a crabby beachcomber and then take his picture?

 

[rothenbj]

I finally got a CD drive for my new Gateway mini and loaded up PS. I played a lot with it a number of years ago when I restored some really old photos of a local hotel but hadn't really played with it since. It's so much fun creating these things.

I was just in a crabby mood this morning seeing so few had voted and commented at the government's latest attempt at reverse Robin Hood.

 

[Vocalek]

So when is a crab not crabby?





When he's vaping.