Maybe we should find out where the main political parties stand on this..and vote accordingly.
UK Regulation of E-Cigs - Petition
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Hiyall,
Ya know what this means dontcha. The FDA is next. Big Pharma has seen the market and wants it. They will make the PVs and sell the Nico, and Wall street will be happy.
THey dont care what you sign, or if you march, stomp and yell. They'll just chuck tear gas at ya.
What you all -we all- need to do is establish black market distribution for PVs, like any illegal drug, just in case the FDA lowers the boom.
BTW - Merck manual, under plant alkaloids rates the top 10 most poisonous.
1 colchicine 2-curare 3-nicotine 4-caffeine 5-....... etc.........
There might be something in their concern. If i remember correctly, 1/4 gram of nic will stop your heart or diaphram. maybe less.
Fumes
Ya know what this means dontcha. The FDA is next. Big Pharma has seen the market and wants it. They will make the PVs and sell the Nico, and Wall street will be happy.
THey dont care what you sign, or if you march, stomp and yell. They'll just chuck tear gas at ya.
What you all -we all- need to do is establish black market distribution for PVs, like any illegal drug, just in case the FDA lowers the boom.
BTW - Merck manual, under plant alkaloids rates the top 10 most poisonous.
1 colchicine 2-curare 3-nicotine 4-caffeine 5-....... etc.........
There might be something in their concern. If i remember correctly, 1/4 gram of nic will stop your heart or diaphram. maybe less.
Fumes
That may be true, but we dont vape pure nicotine. We vape it at a quantity of less than 4% of pure. Plus we would rarely use more than 0.5ml of that mixture in any one hour, so there is likely to rarely be more than 20mg in our system at any one time. Certainly not the approx 190mg that you would have to vape in one hour to be at risk. You would have to be using around 100 drops of 40mg liquid per hour to be using that much. Only a super-human madman could manage that.
I have smoked cigarettes totalling more than 20mg of nic in an hour with no ill effects other than the usual that smoking brings.
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I found a very interesting paper written by Philip Morris Limited in 2008, presented to the UK Department of Health
This was presented to the DH in early September of 2008 and if you cite the grand timeline... a week or so later the WHO made their statement regarding not marketing the ecig as a smoking cessation device. According to the July 2009 PR from US FDA, they apparently became "aware" of the electronic cigarette in July of 2007.
www.e-cig.org/pdfs/pml_submission_to_dh_consultation_on_future_of_tobacco_control.pdf
Page 42 is the first mention of the ecig and you will also find:
8.25. Our [Philip Morris's] support of pharmaceutical regulation for products such as electronic cigarettes is not intended to place unreasonable or undue regulatory burdens on the marketing of legitimate smoking cessation products or products that have the potential to offer consumers safer alternatives to cigarettes. However, it is not tenable to permit products that deliver nicotine – whether marketed with or without claims - to be sold without any regulatory oversight. page 46.
They then go on to blab about how regulations on snuss should be lifted. It is very clear that their intentions are to make available any product they produce, but not allow a competitive industry into ANY of their markets. Period.
Very interesting read! I don't know if any of this will help in the UK fight, but it certainly does put into perspective where the DH might just be coming up with their ideas... cough cough... big tobacco perhaps?
I have forwarded this on to several anti-smoking, yet pro-tobacco harm reductionists and they were lets say, shocked, as they had never seen this document before. Interesting what you can find on the good ole interweb eh?
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Hey,
Go for it Caesarea, I wish you all the luck. I havnt bought my first stick yet, but soon, in a couple days. and- If I read my world correctly, vapin will become illegal 2 to 3 days after I buy mine. I hope not ...........
And PlanetScribbles, what you say is true for responsible intelligent vapin, .... you take an idiot kid who gets the biggest stick and loads up with that 36mg liquid, trying for the biggest buzz, add the alcohol, and the hospital will fill out the death report that nite and the next morning the DEA will declare E-liquid, schedule A. End of story. Theyy do it all the time. remember ghb??
Fuming about it all,
Fumes
Go for it Caesarea, I wish you all the luck. I havnt bought my first stick yet, but soon, in a couple days. and- If I read my world correctly, vapin will become illegal 2 to 3 days after I buy mine. I hope not ...........
And PlanetScribbles, what you say is true for responsible intelligent vapin, .... you take an idiot kid who gets the biggest stick and loads up with that 36mg liquid, trying for the biggest buzz, add the alcohol, and the hospital will fill out the death report that nite and the next morning the DEA will declare E-liquid, schedule A. End of story. Theyy do it all the time. remember ghb??
Fuming about it all,
Fumes
That's the Best case scenario !! Which would actually be a good thing for Vapers cos the Big Corporates would develop/perfect the technology and make distribution/availability ubiquitous !! (Naturally the Politicians will then Tax it up ying yang!
)Worst case is Big Tobacco and the Governmentals are attempting to preserve their old and reliable revenue stream by shutting e-cigs down !!
Very true - won't make a blind bit of difference !! (I signed it anyway though!
)The only "power" the Public have is through Voting - and even then it's very slight !!
Bullseye !! China will keep making e-cigs and juice ...... we just gotta figure out a cunning way to get hold of it !! I can't see it being too difficult to be honest !!
Radiation is poisonous too ...... we still go for X-rays ...... and are constantly bombarded by Cosmic Rays from space ...... it's the level of exposure that matters !!
Apples contain a trace level of Cyanide ..... hell, even Water is poisonous if you drink too much !! 8-o
It's true, but there is no accounting for the things some kids will do. The same could equally be said for liquor, glue, petrol, cigarettes, even NRT.
You can't legislate for stupid behaviour. No-one would be driving cars if zero risk legislation were applied across the board
What does all this implicate? will this prevent me from using and buying ecigs???
They may succeed, they may not, but either way that will not stop me. I'll order from the Eurozone or, failing that, China.
If they think they can stop me from saving my own life, they can suck me. It is becoming obvious to me that we are living in a world that is quickly filling to the brim with BS.
If they want anarchy, they are going the right way about it.
If they think they can stop me from saving my own life, they can suck me. It is becoming obvious to me that we are living in a world that is quickly filling to the brim with BS.
If they want anarchy, they are going the right way about it.
I wish I could sign along with you, but I am an ocean away.
How long before my nanny state...er...um...government will do the same?
Best of luck to U.K. vapers!
How long before my nanny state...er...um...government will do the same?
Best of luck to U.K. vapers!
Don't just sign the online petition, fill in the Response Form for MLX 364 here MLXs: Medicines consultation letters : MHRA
Don't just fill your name but also write you think about it and how Vaping has helped you.
Then send the same link to everyone you know and get them to fill the response form as well. Get your Doctor involved if possible (mine is furious that he has had no Official Notification about this and had to hear about it from me ! ) So let them know your Views. That's what the online response form is there for but you would not know about it unless your where particularly looking for it.
Starlight it's here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ace-tobacco-harm-reduction-2.html#post1001002
googled "Maybe we should find out where the main political parties stand on this..and vote accordingly."......... or threaten not to vote for them if they are won't support us.
You may wan't to download the pdf that LacyUnderall has supplied (thank you Lacy) to show your MP and others where this BS is coming from.
I really would like to know where our UK Suppliers are doing about this as i have yet to see a response from any of them here on ECF.
An e-mail to everyone of their Customers asking them to fill in the Response Form for MLX 364 would be a start.
I have very little faith in Online Petitions to the Prime Minister because he does'nt read them anyway. The Labour Party are fighting for their Survival at the moment.
Peter Mandelson the Business Secretary might be the person to write to if we can afford enough money for his "expenses" or a nice big boy to play with. (that was a joke Peter if you read this).
I would also like to here Bill Godshall's thoughts on this.
The threat is in the Febuary \Drug Safety Update February 2010 - Nicotine replacement therapy and harm reduction_3.pdf
Don't just fill your name but also write you think about it and how Vaping has helped you.
Then send the same link to everyone you know and get them to fill the response form as well. Get your Doctor involved if possible (mine is furious that he has had no Official Notification about this and had to hear about it from me ! ) So let them know your Views. That's what the online response form is there for but you would not know about it unless your where particularly looking for it.
Starlight it's here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ace-tobacco-harm-reduction-2.html#post1001002
googled "Maybe we should find out where the main political parties stand on this..and vote accordingly."......... or threaten not to vote for them if they are won't support us.
You may wan't to download the pdf that LacyUnderall has supplied (thank you Lacy) to show your MP and others where this BS is coming from.
I really would like to know where our UK Suppliers are doing about this as i have yet to see a response from any of them here on ECF.
An e-mail to everyone of their Customers asking them to fill in the Response Form for MLX 364 would be a start.
I have very little faith in Online Petitions to the Prime Minister because he does'nt read them anyway. The Labour Party are fighting for their Survival at the moment.
Peter Mandelson the Business Secretary might be the person to write to if we can afford enough money for his "expenses" or a nice big boy to play with. (that was a joke Peter if you read this).
I would also like to here Bill Godshall's thoughts on this.
The threat is in the Febuary \Drug Safety Update February 2010 - Nicotine replacement therapy and harm reduction_3.pdf
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That's the Best case scenario !! Which would actually be a good thing for Vapers cos the Big Corporates would develop/perfect the technology and make distribution/availability ubiquitous !! (Naturally the Politicians will then Tax it up ying yang!
Worst case is Big Tobacco and the Governmentals are attempting to preserve their old and reliable revenue stream by shutting e-cigs down !!
I don't agree with this assumption. If big Companies get involved, smaller ones like DIY, RockyMtn, etc would be out of business.
just my opinion.
Petition signed, message left on MHRA website, and email sent to friends and family. Let's nip this in the bud....XXX
Please please, I urge everyone in the UK to fill out the MLX 364 response form with full information on how e-cigs have helped you.
We do need some sort of regulation for this industry, but this is NOT the way to go about it. They want to cut off YOUR supply and they want to do it in a few months time, don't let them do it without fighting.
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