understanding dual coils

[edyle]

So will I get twice the vape/flavor from a dual coil Protank 3 as I do from a Protank 2? I better since they are over twice as hard to rebuild. For now I'm just using single coil EVOD & H2 stuff since I have rebuilding them with cotton about mastered. I have Protanks, iClears, and even a Fogger V4 but for me they are just headaches. Single bottom coil blows clouds with cotton wicks and is all I need to replace cigs. Maybe some day I'll play with dual coil, but so far I gave all my dual coil stuff away except for the fogger. I went to my local B&M and traded them a NIB Protank 3 and 2 filled once iClear 30's for a Protank 2..
- Joe

It's not worth it as far as I am concerned.

Dual coil is better done on a proper rebuildable.

Squeezing 2 (and now 3 - joyetech) coils into a coil head, is to me, more of a money making gimmick.

 

[Dampmaskin]

The newest Aerotank dual coil atomizer head from Kanger is no gimmick, at least not for me. It is the best clearo vape I've had so far. Miles ahead of Kanger's old dual coil heads. Much better than the Nautilus too, IMO.

 

[Ucliker]

I didn't like the new kanger coils as much. Dry hits compared to the old set of kanger coils I had. But I may have a bad batch.

 

[BladeZ]

OK since I know that dual coil allows me to pump up the Voltage higher compare to regular single coil, eventually I tried to bring it up to about 4.2-4.5V and guess what, it taste awesome..!! I have been vaping in between 3.7-4.1V for all this time and I thought it taste good enough but then I was wrong..

But here comes another silly questions.. When I run the coil on constant high Voltage does it mean it lower life span for the coil..?

Thank you so much for the tips guys..

P.S. I'm using PT3 2ohms dual coil with liqua mix berries+ a little cool mint mix..

 

[mel_vin]

OK since I know that dual coil allows me to pump up the Voltage higher compare to regular single coil, eventually I tried to bring it up to about 4.2-4.5V and guess what, it taste awesome..!! I have been vaping in between 3.7-4.1V for all this time and I thought it taste good enough but then I was wrong..

But here comes another silly questions.. When I run the coil on constant high Voltage does it mean it lower life span for the coil..?

Thank you so much for the tips guys..

P.S. I'm using PT3 2ohms dual coil with liqua mix berries+ a little cool mint mix..

Well, attys are cheap enough to be replaced and even cheaper if you rebuild them if your into that...I try to make a habbit of switching my attys at 2 weeks sometimes 3, but Im also not puffing on it all day.

But for me, I can do without the dual coils. TH is whats important to me than clouds of vapor. Not to mention the extra drain on batteries and the amount of juice you go through. I don't like carrying around a huge looking mod that makes me look like I'm smoking a screwdriver to be able to last the day, again this is just my opinion.

Ive recently switched to a Kanger Protank 3 mini from an Aspire ETS, and despite what Ive been told, it can use the original single coil attys in them. That paired with a itaste VV 3, and Ive been extremely happy at 8mg of nic. Nice amount of throat hit and vapor production that seems "natural" or compared to a cigarette vs a smoke stack from a factory. And from Fast Tech, you can get the itaste for 25 bucks shipped, so I bought 2 of them.

I tried the Kanger with air control valve and really liked that one, so that is next on my list.

What I want to know is, are these manufactures going to switch to cotton from silica. Im not into building my own, I just want to be able to put in an atty, filler up and go. I love the fact that the PT3 is Stainless, glass and no glue.

 

[CKCalmer]

And it happened to me again. You people are awesome!

I've been running this whole time with a PT2 on my eGo at 5.7w-6.2w and my single-coil Boge carto'ed DCT on my Supreme at about the same wattage because those are about the highest settings I was able to go without burning up my electric juice.

Then I read this thread.

I just now connected the 2.1Ω iClear 30S (which registers 2.2Ω on my eGo) that I had abandoned a few weeks ago and cranked it to 9.0w. Before I read this thread, I would have been certain that my juice would have been very nastily burned at that power level. But WOW! I never tasted my Black Ice like this. No burn. And I'm getting about 20% more vapor too.

See? I knew I loved this place for a reason.

There's only one downside: I planned to start building my own coils this week, and I was thinking "I prefer singles anyway, so building should be easy." Now I gotta build duals because I think I may become hooked on 'em. Oh well. Now I know it'll be worth the extra work. I guess I better pick up a PT3 for the eGo when I order my Kayfun tomorrow.

I'm just glad I found all this out BEFORE I placed my order. THANK YOU ALL for making my vaping experience even better yet again!

(I never just hand out "Likes" all willy-nilly, but this one's important. "Likes" all 'round!)

 

[DaveP]

Not true. The higher resistance heats faster with less power.


Live Long and Vape!

Not necessarily. A 4 ohm coil heats more slowly at the same voltage than a 2 ohm coil. So, two 4 ohm coils in parallel IS a 2 ohm load, but the voltage is the same across both coils and the wattage is halved between the two. If you put the same voltage onto a dual coil vs a single coil the result is that more coil/wick area is exposed to juice but at a lower wattage. You can crank the voltage higher, get the efficiency of dual coils, and not have the problem of burning juice due to similar wattage (to a single coil) across each due to higher voltage.

A good analogy is installing a splitter on a hose and then screwing on two hoses. Each hose gets the same pressure (voltage) but the flow (current) is reduced due to the split in volume at the Y connection (water being analogous to electron flow). You can crank the pressure up and regain the flow rate without over-pressurizing either hose.

 

[Tom Fuller]

Not necessarily. A 4 ohm coil heats more slowly at the same voltage than a 2 ohm coil. So, two 4 ohm coils in parallel IS a 2 ohm load, but the voltage is the same across both coils and the wattage is halved between the two. If you put the same voltage onto a dual coil and a single coil the result is that more coil/wick area is exposed to juice but at a lower wattage. You can crank the voltage higher, get the efficiency of dual coils, and not have the problem of burning juice due to the same wattage across each, but with a lower voltage than if you were using a single coil.

A good analogy is installing a splitter on a hose and then screwing on two hoses. Each hose gets the same pressure (voltage) but the flow (current) is reduced due to the split in volume at the Y connection (water being analogous to electron flow).

I have no argument with what you are saying at all. I was answering with few words and as I am learning in the forum world folks use any crack left unaccounted for to point out where post "x" is wrong.

There is a limit to the higher ohm less power needed point. The range is largely governed by battery output(mechs) and control board capabilities(regulated mods). In the 1-2ohm range is an atty's most efficient use of a battery. 1ohm is one to one where 2ohm is one to half. Air flow has a huge effect on evaporating e-liquid. This effect is due to the cooling of the element. You can produce vapor in small quantity up to 3.5ohm and higher. The coil that came with my Kayfun clone was just that. I threw it on with a laugh out of angst to hurry and try it out. Basically it functioned like a Protank or a BDC. With slow inhale. Next build I put a 1.4 ohm macro coil huge bore by most standards and it could easily handle more wattage than a Vamo can put out. The idea of the super sub ohm setup is to create the heat and keep it hot with fast air exchange. Maximizing vapor production on a mech which has a limited max amp and volt out put is limited to the ohms of your atty. the heat goes down the higher the ohm given the same air exchange. Anyway I get your point.


Live Long and Vape!

 

[DaveP]

Tom, I didn't have a problem with what you said, it's just that wattage (and heat) are dependent upon the combination of voltage, resistance, wire gauge, and efficiency. You will draw the same amount of power from a battery to push a coil to a given wattage no matter whether the wire gauge is small or larger. Larger wire gauges take longer to heat because of the wire size and the number of turns it takes to get to a certain resistance. At some point you may outrun the battery's ability to deliver the current to a large gauge wire coil, but within normal ranges it's about what voltage delivers which wattage at the desired resistance. Batteries can be swapped out and charged so it's a matter of what vapers prefer.

I personally like coils in the 2 ohm range because I can vape at lower voltages on thinner 32ga wire than higher ohm coils with more turns using thicker 28ga wire. Most stock coils use 32ga wire and I like the responsiveness of 32 gauge wire over 28 gauge wire.

Everyone has a preference as to how they like their wattage delivered and there's a limit on stock atomizers as to how many coils will fit in the space available. I think that's why we prefer low resistance using 32ga wire.

 

[Weizenheimer]

And it happened to me again. You people are awesome!

I've been running this whole time with a PT2 on my eGo at 5.7w-6.2w and my single-coil Boge carto'ed DCT on my Supreme at about the same wattage because those are about the highest settings I was able to go without burning up my electric juice.

Then I read this thread.

I just now connected the 2.1Ω iClear 30S (which registers 2.2Ω on my eGo) that I had abandoned a few weeks ago and cranked it to 9.0w. Before I read this thread, I would have been certain that my juice would have been very nastily burned at that power level. But WOW! I never tasted my Black Ice like this. No burn. And I'm getting about 20% more vapor too.

See? I knew I loved this place for a reason.

There's only one downside: I planned to start building my own coils this week, and I was thinking "I prefer singles anyway, so building should be easy." Now I gotta build duals because I think I may become hooked on 'em. Oh well. Now I know it'll be worth the extra work. I guess I better pick up a PT3 for the eGo when I order my Kayfun tomorrow.

I'm just glad I found all this out BEFORE I placed my order. THANK YOU ALL for making my vaping experience even better yet again!

(I never just hand out "Likes" all willy-nilly, but this one's important. "Likes" all 'round!)

A single in an RBA is still going to be great\better than the dual in a clearo. I would recommend starting with a single and seeing what you think. But feel free to crank that single on up in wattage. I usually run mine at 15-18w.

 

[edyle]

OK since I know that dual coil allows me to pump up the Voltage higher compare to regular single coil, eventually I tried to bring it up to about 4.2-4.5V and guess what, it taste awesome..!! I have been vaping in between 3.7-4.1V for all this time and I thought it taste good enough but then I was wrong..

But here comes another silly questions.. When I run the coil on constant high Voltage does it mean it lower life span for the coil..?

Thank you so much for the tips guys..

P.S. I'm using PT3 2ohms dual coil with liqua mix berries+ a little cool mint mix..

No.

A 2 ohm single coil needs maybe 3 volts
and a 4 ohm single coil needs maybe 4 volts.

A 2 ohm dual coil consists of 2 4 ohm coils each of which need the 4 volts as above.

 

[Feignix]

Tom,

It doesn't happen often, and he did the same thing with my post. I assumed that most would know I had meant being all things equal across the board both voltage and wattage and you'll still get a different vape across regulated mods but because I only used watts, which correct me if I'm wrong, on regulated devices the voltage should automatically be adjusted when it's set in watts, at least that's how it works on my ZNA30, but anyways I was "schooled" too. OK, no bigee! It's ok if someone wants to think they no more than me or I don't know enough, in some instances their probably right but even when they're not it's just not that crucial lol! Just a suggestion but if you haven't gotten your point across by now to that person just let it go, you probably won't!

Someone OKCalmer, I'm a BIG fan of dual coils but lately I've been messing around with nanol coils. 12/11 wraps of 28g, organic cotton gives me a much better vape then Kanger 2.0 ohm dual coils coming in at 1.5 ohms. Big increase in flavor and vapor production, so you don't have to necessarily use dual coils to get where you wanna go! While it's really not that much harder to build I don't personally see a reason to put dual coils in anything smaller than my RDA's now. My two cents.... Glad you discovered a way to improve your vape!

Editted: OKCalmer, It was supposed to read "....lately I've been messing around with nano coils.", not "dual" coils lol. Hope it makes sense now if you didn't already figure it out!

 

[Fir3b1rd]

I'm a bit confused by dual coil setups in clearos and tanks. I mean...there's this whole movement towards lower and lower resistance coils and I thought the whole premise was that (for a given voltage) you get more a faster and therefore more intense vaporization. With dual coils, again given the same amount of voltage, you would have a much slower vaporization; a dual coil head rated at 2ohms is two coils at 4ohms each. I can see how two coils would yield more volume of vapor but how do they yield a better tasting vapor??

Lets ignore the RDAs/RBAs/dripping here if you dont mind and stick to out of the box clearos and tanks. Thanks

Dual coils are essentially parallel resistors. To get the total resistance of two resistors in parallel:

Rt= (R1XR2)/(R1+R2)
Or you can add the inverse together and take the inverse of the the sum.
1/Rt=1/R2+1/R2

As to the better tasting Vape- taste is subjective and some people prefer done juices hotter than others, the dual dual coil essentially gives more surface areas to hear and vaporize the juice.
In my case I prefer most on a single coil. I use kayfund 90 percent of the time. I have one set up on dual and the others single coil. The best part of vapid these days are all the options out there to satisfy everyone's individual preferences and that there is now format or one size fits all vapor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Unforeseen]

Moved to Assorted APV Discussions - Rebuildable Atomizer Systems

 

[Feignix]

No.

A 2 ohm single coil needs maybe 3 volts
and a 4 ohm single coil needs maybe 4 volts.

A 2 ohm dual coil consists of 2 4 ohm coils each of which need the 4 volts as above.

LOL, I guess I'm just slow, I had to read through this a few times to get what you're saying. Could it be expressed the same as she is only vaping @ less then 1v more than she was?

BladeZ: "... eventually I tried to bring it up to about 4.2-4.5V and guess what, it taste awesome..!! I have been vaping in between 3.7-4.1V for all this time..."

4.2-3.7 = .5 and 4.5-4.1 = .4

By my understanding BladeZ is only vaping at between .4-.5 difference, so NO, that is not a significant enough increase to noticeably decrease the life of the coils. Things like build, type of juices, vaping style WILL however affect the life of the coils. My rebuild coils really don't last much longer than the stock coils, the nano coils I've replaced them with that is. I get perhaps a day maybe two longer. I however only got at most two days out of the stock coils wheras A LOT of people claimed to go weeks! I think taste and preference plays apart in the case where all other variables are the same such as type of coil, build etc. However as mentioned above, several things factor in when to as what determines the "life" of a coil. What is the definition of "coil life". To me it's when the coil no longer works as expected or desired or is no longer useful to me. Sure, my coils is still "usuable", but at that point even with "wet burns" the coil "performance" drops off significantly for me in rebuilt dual coil heads. For one, it's not advisable to "dry burn" them due to the insulator the coils rests in within the cup. Evidently it can not withstand the heat of it for long and will "emit" a burnt taste when the juices come in contact with it. My mech builds on the other hand last weeks, but they're also bigger builds!

I figured I'd add more to the discussion.

 

[BladeZ]

LOL, I guess I'm just slow, I had to read through this a few times to get what you're saying. Could it be expressed the same as she is only vaping @ less then 1v more than she was?

BladeZ: "... eventually I tried to bring it up to about 4.2-4.5V and guess what, it taste awesome..!! I have been vaping in between 3.7-4.1V for all this time..."

4.2-3.7 = .5 and 4.5-4.1 = .4

By my understanding BladeZ is only vaping at between .4-.5 difference, so NO, that is not a significant enough increase to noticeably decrease the life of the coils. Things like build, type of juices, vaping style WILL however affect the life of the coils. My rebuild coils really don't last much longer than the stock coils, the nano coils I've replaced them with that is. I get perhaps a day maybe two longer. I however only got at most two days out of the stock coils wheras A LOT of people claimed to go weeks! I think taste and preference plays apart in the case where all other variables are the same such as type of coil, build etc. However as mentioned above, several things factor in when to as what determines the "life" of a coil. What is the definition of "coil life". To me it's when the coil no longer works as expected or desired or is no longer useful to me. Sure, my coils is still "usuable", but at that point even with "wet burns" the coil "performance" drops off significantly for me in rebuilt dual coil heads. For one, it's not advisable to "dry burn" them due to the insulator the coils rests in within the cup. Evidently it can not withstand the heat of it for long and will "emit" a burnt taste when the juices come in contact with it. My mech builds on the other hand last weeks, but they're also bigger builds!

I figured I'd add more to the discussion.

Well it is indeed there is only a slight difference from the Voltage, .5 and .4 but as I am still new to VV and VW, there is this worries of spoiling the atomizer.

But can I conclude that as long as there is no burning taste on the vapor, I'm still allow to set the Voltage higher, just to test what is the 'actual' safe spot..? Cos i notice that some people goes above the recommended power and voltage(on the red area in voltage/power chart) and they still work fine.

I really want to go for self build coil cos everyone is really proud of it but until i learn how the VV/VW work, i have to calm myself down

So far I get what u guys mean and really appreciate it.. More info will me a lot more appreciated.. Lol..

 

[edyle]

Well it is indeed there is only a slight difference from the Voltage, .5 and .4 but as I am still new to VV and VW, there is this worries of spoiling the atomizer.

But can I conclude that as long as there is no burning taste on the vapor, I'm still allow to set the Voltage higher, just to test what is the 'actual' safe spot..? Cos i notice that some people goes above the recommended power and voltage(on the red area in voltage/power chart) and they still work fine.

I really want to go for self build coil cos everyone is really proud of it but until i learn how the VV/VW work, i have to calm myself down

So far I get what u guys mean and really appreciate it.. More info will me a lot more appreciated.. Lol..

Absolutely; adjust the voltage to find the sweet spot for your combination; just don't jump too far up all of a sudden because if you burn something you keep tasting the burnt stuff for a while.

 

[BladeZ]

Absolutely; adjust the voltage to find the sweet spot for your combination; just don't jump too far up all of a sudden because if you burn something you keep tasting the burnt stuff for a while.

Noted.. after a while of playing with the Wattage I realize my juice start to taste weird above 10.5W.. I'm staying at 10W right now and pleased with it.. haha..

 

[edyle]

Noted.. after a while of playing with the Wattage I realize my juice start to taste weird above 10.5W.. I'm staying at 10W right now and pleased with it.. haha..

yup; works out to the standard rule of thumb: 5 watts per coil for those 30/32 gauge commercial coils.

 

[Tom Fuller]

More air exchange will allow you to go higher watts. Just keep in mind on most tank systems sucking too hard will overcome the vacuum too much and flood. If you get high enough wattage you can evaporate as much as the tank can drop.


Live Long and Vape!