Unelected Westiminter (MA) BOH shuts down public hearing on proposed tobacco sales ban, blames the public

[AndriaD]

bigdancehawk wrote


Yes. tobacco prohibitionists don't understand (or care) that public health boards and agencies are supposed to serve the public.

Exactly -- what it really boils down to is that while it may be true that most smokers want to quit, they DO NOT want coercive measures which restrict their FREEDOM -- which is exactly what this law tramples into the mud.

I say it's high time ALL these "public health" stooges are FIRED, since they clearly don't have the FIRST clue what "public" means! They are supposed to SERVE the public, not dictate to it!!!

Andria

 

[Nate760]

Exactly -- what it really boils down to is that while it may be true that most smokers want to quit, they DO NOT want coercive measures which restrict their FREEDOM -- which is exactly what this law tramples into the mud.

In my own case, the avalanche of lies, deceit, coercion, condescension, onerous laws, regressive taxes, and constant insults to my intelligence actually motivated me to continue smoking longer than I otherwise might have, just out of sheer defiance. I didn't want my quitting to be something for which those self-righteous idiots in "tobacco control" and "public health" could claim credit. If they'd actually tried treating me like a grown adult, with a functioning brain in my head, capable of making informed decisions about my own behavior, it's possible I would have quit years sooner.

 

[AndriaD]

In my own case, the avalanche of lies, deceit, coercion, condescension, onerous laws, regressive taxes, and constant insults to my intelligence actually motivated me to continue smoking longer than I otherwise might have, just out of sheer defiance. I didn't want my quitting to be something for which those self-righteous idiots in "tobacco control" and "public health" could claim credit. If they'd actually tried treating me like a grown adult, with a functioning brain in my head, capable of making informed decisions about my own behavior, it's possible I would have quit years sooner.

I agree, and I think I felt a little of that too -- although I wasn't aware, at that time, of the extreme deception being perpetrated on the American people, I simply objected to fascist nannies trying to tell me, an adult, what I should do or how I should do it -- even doctors or dentists, telling me I shouldn't smoke, for whatever reason they offered -- coercion or meddling in my personal choices just makes me dig in my heels, as I proved in my adolescence, when anything that my mom told me NOT to do became the very next thing I did. This is the main reason why I know I have to keep that last open pack in my freezer -- so that there is no coercion in my not smoking them, not even the coercion of having no cigarettes handy -- as long as *I* am in control of whether or not I smoke, I'm perfectly capable of continuing to choose NOT to smoke.

And I still want to know how these self-righteous idiots can be separated from their positions, and what we need to do to make this happen, because they are certainly not representing any part of "public" anything, but only their own self-righteous ideology, and I think all self-respecting adults are as damn tired of it as I am.

Andria

 

[DrMA]

The alphabet soup and body parts groups are nothing more than BP lobby groups masquerading as so-called "public health". Their sole purpose and any and all actions undertaken are to further the financial interests of their paymasters with callous disregard to the Public and Health.

That being said, not that y'all didn't know it already, I consider the Westminster meeting a glorious success. The desk murderers on the BOH were forced to listen to the people and the media reported it. The people made a loud and clear statement that they will not stand to have their freedom to engage in lawful activities curtailed by arbitrary and capricious regulations.

 

[AndriaD]

The alphabet soup and body parts groups are nothing more than BP lobby groups masquerading as so-called "public health". Their sole purpose and any and all actions undertaken are to further the financial interests of their paymasters with callous disregard to the Public and Health.

And I find that very distressing; I remember my grandmother taking up collections for the ALA, and they are one of the groups to whom I would previously have been inclined to donate, simply because I have asthma, my mother has COPD, and my father died of lung cancer. But they have so far violated their "public health" mandate, I wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire.

That being said, not that y'all didn't know it already, I consider the Westminster meeting a glorious success. The desk murderers on the BOH were forced to listen to the people and the media reported it. The people made a loud and clear statement that they will not stand to have their freedom to engage in lawful activities curtailed by arbitrary and capricious regulations.

I agree, and all that self-righteous woman did by ending the meeting was show her true puritanical-despot colors. I hope she's trembling for her job, because if she's in an elected position, I wouldn't give 2 cents for her re-election chances.

Andria

 

[Nate760]

That being said, not that y'all didn't know it already, I consider the Westminster meeting a glorious success. The desk murderers on the BOH were forced to listen to the people and the media reported it. The people made a loud and clear statement that they will not stand to have their freedom to engage in lawful activities curtailed by arbitrary and capricious regulations.

It was a success, no doubt about it, but one made possible only by the abject obliviousness of the BOH. These people are so convinced of the automatic moral rectitude of their policies, and so disconnected from the fact that they're supposed to be serving the public and not dictating to it, it never entered their thinking that they might be overreaching to such an extent that a popular backlash, and a very angry one at that, was the probable result. Part of the mentality that informs "public health" policymaking is that you can do whatever you want to smokers, because smokers are the only ones who will care, and they're a small enough minority (who've already been socially and politically marginalized) that it won't matter. But now we know where the boundary lies for acts of tobacco control lunacy that will incite indignation from the public at large rather than just from smokers.

 

[Uma]

Talk of recall. . Westminster tobacco outrage fuels talk of recall - Sentinel & Enterprise

In the duke u link I posted earlier, they share how to destroy busisnesses via over regulating, in order to push for a robotic society aka healthy communities via their chosen junk science epidemoligy. Even my husband laughed at the junk food stats they shared.
Oh, btw, OT, but cool. Hubby travels far and wide and is always seeing smokers and Vapers both and can't understand what the heck I'm going off about and fighting about here in internet land. Oorah to the civil rebels!

 

[Kent C]

Talk of recall. . Westminster tobacco outrage fuels talk of recall - Sentinel & Enterprise

In the duke u link I posted earlier, they share how to destroy busisnesses via over regulating, in order to push for a robotic society aka healthy communities via their chosen junk science epidemoligy. Even my husband laughed at the junk food stats they shared.
Oh, btw, OT, but cool. Hubby travels far and wide and is always seeing smokers and Vapers both and can't understand what the heck I'm going off about and fighting about here in internet land. Oorah to the civil rebels!

Just got back from Disney's Food and Wine Festival and saw more vapers than ever before by great multiples than even last Feb. Good signs

 

[AndriaD]

Talk of recall. . Westminster tobacco outrage fuels talk of recall - Sentinel & Enterprise

In the duke u link I posted earlier, they share how to destroy busisnesses via over regulating, in order to push for a robotic society aka healthy communities via their chosen junk science epidemoligy. Even my husband laughed at the junk food stats they shared.
Oh, btw, OT, but cool. Hubby travels far and wide and is always seeing smokers and Vapers both and can't understand what the heck I'm going off about and fighting about here in internet land. Oorah to the civil rebels!

Even though they couldn't recall that stupid woman, it seems to me that if they go ahead and move to recall the other 2, it would send her a VERY clear signal, and it's certainly true that residents of that town could make her life so fraught with anxiety that she resigns voluntarily -- when "set-piece" battles won't accomplish the goal, there's always guerilla warfare.

Andria

 

[cadcoke5]

"Then shouting broke out over her warning..."
The way this is being reported, it seems that the crowd was reasonably well behaved until the BOH ANTZ chairwoman kept insisting on no applause and "respectful" silence, at which point the crowd got annoyed at being treated like a classroom of third graders.

3rd graders generally know how to behave in formal assemblies. If the rules for no applause applies across the board to all speakers for or against the topic, then why must the e-cig group demand an exception? This was not a pep-rally. It was a formal assembly to hear speakers. That is part of how our democracy works.

-Joe

 

[DrMA]

Talk of recall. . Westminster tobacco outrage fuels talk of recall - Sentinel & Enterprise

In the duke u link I posted earlier, they share how to destroy busisnesses via over regulating, in order to push for a robotic society aka healthy communities via their chosen junk science epidemoligy. Even my husband laughed at the junk food stats they shared.
Oh, btw, OT, but cool. Hubby travels far and wide and is always seeing smokers and Vapers both and can't understand what the heck I'm going off about and fighting about here in internet land. Oorah to the civil rebels!

I'm all in favor of making examples of these ANTZ. Recall the BOH members and send a clear message that fascism will not be tolerated.

Vapers are small compared to the other special interests in the tobacco game. We cannot fight or win all the battles, but making examples out of high-profile cases would go a long way to further the cause.

 

[Nate760]

I'm all in favor of making examples of these ANTZ. Recall the BOH members and send a clear message that fascism will not be tolerated.

Vapers are small compared to the other special interests in the tobacco game. We cannot fight or win all the battles, but making examples out of high-profile cases would go a long way to further the cause.

I'm surprised the BOH members haven't doubled down and accused the citizens of Westminster of being paid operatives for the tobacco industry. That would be the normal ANTZ response in their position.

 

[AndriaD]

I'm surprised the BOH members haven't doubled down and accused the citizens of Westminster of being paid operatives for the tobacco industry. That would be the normal ANTZ response in their position.

Given the public anger displayed at that meeting, they're probably hunkered down behind closed (and locked!) doors.

Andria

 

[bigdancehawk]

3rd graders generally know how to behave in formal assemblies. If the rules for no applause applies across the board to all speakers for or against the topic, then why must the e-cig group demand an exception? This was not a pep-rally. It was a formal assembly to hear speakers. That is part of how our democracy works.

-Joe

Good Lord, they routinely applaud in the Senate and the House, they shout "Hear hear!" and pound their desks in the House of Commons, and even applaud and boo from time to time.

But, as everyone knows, public meetings of the Westminster Mass. Board of Health are such solemn and majestic proceedings that a bit of applause must be viewed as a catastrophic disruption, such that the session must be summarily terminated.

Self-important, stuffed shirt bureaucrats--*$#%%@^&

 

[AndriaD]

Good Lord, they routinely applaud in the Senate and the House, they shout "Hear hear!" and pound their desks in the House of Commons, and even applaud and boo from time to time.

But, as everyone knows, public meetings of the Westminster Mass. Board of Health are such solemn and majestic proceedings that a bit of applause must be viewed as a catastrophic disruption, such that the session must be summarily terminated.

Self-important, stuffed shirt bureaucrats--*$#%%@^&

I've even heard hollering and such in some CHURCHES! This woman seems so full of herself, it's like she thinks she IS addressing 3rd graders, and it's her job to MAKE THEM BEHAVE! Self-important, stuffed shirt bureaucrat indeed! If I lived there, I would make it my mission in life to take her down a peg or ten.

Andria

 

[Uma]

Good Lord, they routinely applaud in the Senate and the House, they shout "Hear hear!" and pound their desks in the House of Commons, and even applaud and boo from time to time.

But, as everyone knows, public meetings of the Westminster Mass. Board of Health are such solemn and majestic proceedings that a bit of applause must be viewed as a catastrophic disruption, such that the session must be summarily terminated.

Self-important, stuffed shirt bureaucrats--*$#%%@^&

Yet, things can change in a heartbeat if we the people wizen up and get on the ball. Check out what these two Vets did. Some of the offensess? Not allowing the public to speak, etc...
2 IL Veterans Force 102 Corrupt Officials to Resign, Place Entire Local Board Under Citizen's Arrest | Ben Swann Truth In Media

 

[AndriaD]

Yet, things can change in a heartbeat if we the people wizen up and get on the ball. Check out what these two Vets did. Some of the offensess? Not allowing the public to speak, etc...
2 IL Veterans Force 102 Corrupt Officials to Resign, Place Entire Local Board Under Citizen's Arrest | Ben Swann Truth In Media

Wonder how many people it would take to hold the entire FDA under Citizens' Arrest?

Andria

 

[csardaz]

That Ill veterans story is nice - they need more copycats of that sort of stuff.

The title of this thread is the "unelected" BOH .... But the recall stuff deals with elected officials - sounds like maybe they were elected? Of course the citizens probably thought they do stuff like making sure public restrooms are clean and milk hasn't expired.

I'm not sure Ms. Crete is done. Her quotes in articles indicate they expected a pushback - its similar to what was experienced when they first banned smoking in restaurants and such. But she didn't expect that the meeting to be non-silent? I didn't see any torches or pitchforks. I expect a minutes delay for cheers to settle would have let them continue the public hearing.

So does it still meet their 'public hearing' requirement once its aborted? The purpose is not just for the board to get letters to ignore, but for the public to hear each other arguments as well and the board to respond to some and see the publics reaction. Silence doesn't seem a good way to observe a publics reactions.

The police captain and the third speaker both have the same idea - smokings bad ... but you're taking away freedoms?!!? Of course people are gonna yell.

 

[cadcoke5]

When an assembly has rules and those rules are evenly applied, then it is reasonable to expect the participants to abide by the rules. (I realize those rules may not be the same for each organization) And while the meeting leaders may have been antagonistic to our cause, the behavior of the crowd didn't help the cause either. Rather, it provided a tool to end the meeting, and prevented those who were prepared to speak from doing so.

A demonstration outside could have been organized. It would permit a highly exuberant demonstration, that fully demonstrated the anger at the boards planned action. The media, and any others at the meeting, would eventually have seen the demonstration. Then, if the speakers were able to present their case inside, the media could have had more to quote from. They may have been more likely to be perceived, as reasonable people, with well though-out arguments against the board's planned actions.

-Joe

 

[AndriaD]

When an assembly has rules and those rules are evenly applied, then it is reasonable to expect the participants to abide by the rules. (I realize those rules may not be the same for each organization) And while the meeting leaders may have been antagonistic to our cause, the behavior of the crowd didn't help the cause either. Rather, it provided a tool to end the meeting, and prevented those who were prepared to speak from doing so.

A demonstration outside could have been organized. It would permit a highly exuberant demonstration, that fully demonstrated the anger at the boards planned action. The media, and any others at the meeting, would eventually have seen the demonstration. Then, if the speakers were able to present their case inside, the media could have had more to quote from. They may have been more likely to be perceived, as reasonable people, with well though-out arguments against the board's planned actions.

-Joe

But instead, what happened was a completely FASCIST close-down of the meeting, which just looks petulant. I'm not terribly unhappy with that, because the fact of the close-down was front-and-center of the news story -- which makes them look like petulant fascists.

Andria