Unimpressed so far TC

[Smellybelly]

So I have a sigelei 75w tc. Before today I was only using power mode so kanthal. Today one of the guys at my local shop gave me some titanium so I cold try the out TC. Well I whipped up some coils. 26g duals reading .15 ohms and spaced just cause I couldn't remember if it was nickel or titanium that you couldn't or at least shouldn't micro coil. I then wicked it up with some ko gen doh. I tried the cotton burn test and at 310 degrees Fahrenheit the cotton started to turn brown and smoke a bit. So I turned it down to 300 because that was the previous temp I tested at and no or very little burning happened there. So I then juiced it up and vaped and it was a cool vape and very little flavor. I was very unimpressed. I mean yes it was pretty cool having like no ramp up time and not redripping like ever but it just lacked the flavor and the heat wasn't there. But if I turned it up to 400 it was closed to the heat I like but would still burn the cotton so it kinda negated the point of TC.

So is there something I'm doing wrong? Is there a different wicking material I could use to get it to work at a higher temperature?

 

[Rockwell222]

No cotton test imo isn't s huge deal. It is good in some ways but I believe the sigelei 75w does TC pretty well. I've only used my friends and of course I prefer my vs200 but it was satisfying at 440f. Your cotton will never get bone dry like the cotton test. You'll taste it when it's getting depleted of liquid and then just re juice. If I set either of my DNA200's at 300 the vape would be pretty poor also. If I were you I would put it back to 400f and try again and you should notice when the wick is getting dry and the flavor becomes poorer then re drip. 1 question though I think the sigelei 75w doesn't have titanium mode so then you would have to turn the temp down 100f or so to get the same vape in ni200. I know you haven't vaped in TC really but if it was barely burning the cotton with your titanium build then that makes sense. If cotton begins to brown at 420 with ni200 then with titanium it should brown at around 320 on your device since it doesn't have titanium mode. Sorry for the rambling hope some helps.

 

[nkr501]

From what I've read in my research is the titanium doesn't have as strong a flavor as nickel. It ramps up better, but you need to run higher joules/wattages to get it hot enough to get good vapor and flavor. The cotton is going to burn when you first fire either metal since it takes a second for the resistance to change. The temperature sensing is based on the change in resistance so it will fire at first regardless. It heats up slower when covered in juice, so when its wicked and juiced up it will prevent dry hits by cutting off when it his a set resistance based on the algorithm programmed into the chipset.

I haven't used Ti yet, but the principle is the same. You just need to up the wattage and temp for the Ti to get a warmer vape. Nickel gets pretty warm though. I vape at 485 degrees at 40 joules, and its pretty thick and warm on the nickel.

 

[DroopyDroors]

I would say this. TC is not something that one can just jump into at first without doing a lot of studying. Studying of your device and of how to build coils for TC. I'm not sure how the Sig locks in resistance or if there is a setting for Ti. If there is no setting for Ti then you will have to adjust your Temp appropriately because it will be running the ni200 curve which sounds like what is happening. Also I would say that its very tricky to run dual coil with TC you basically have to make the 2 coils almost exact in length to get any sort or accurate reading. When you get tc working its amazing.

 

[GeorgeS]

I'd suggest getting some Ni200 (what your mod was designed for) and doing 8-10 wraps on 2.5mm with 28AWG and trying your 'dry cotton test' again. You might be surprised at the results.

Then again, TC vaping is not a good fit for everyone. You have to juggle: AWG, surface area, Ohms, space for the windings (and ID), power and temperature. Sometimes it all comes together way to easily and other times getting a decent build might seem almost impossible.

While I've been very happy with my TC setups (it is almost all I use anymore) some folks are never quite able to emulate the vaping experience they used to get with Kanthal and give up on the TC thing all together.

Best of luck and happy Vaping!

 

[sig-cmt]

Currently vaping on a Sig 75W TC w/ dual 24g Ti @ 0.13 ohms. Firing 70/30 at 60W to a preset temp of 360F on rayon wicks. 360F Ti = 470F Ni2000. See the Equivalents section on Wire Wizard. Ti absolutely rocks on the Sig 75W TC, so long as you properly establish your offset temps. The only issue with Ti is its relatively low resistance (e.g. current draw at 0.15 ohms is 20A @ 60W). The current limit of the Sig 75W TC is 25A, meaning a dual coil build at 0.12 ohms being fired at 75W is the maximum safe startup it can handle.

 

[crxess]

From what I've read in my research is the titanium doesn't have as strong a flavor as nickel. It ramps up better, but you need to run higher joules/wattages to get it hot enough to get good vapor and flavor. The cotton is going to burn when you first fire either metal since it takes a second for the resistance to change. The temperature sensing is based on the change in resistance so it will fire at first regardless. It heats up slower when covered in juice, so when its wicked and juiced up it will prevent dry hits by cutting off when it his a set resistance based on the algorithm programmed into the chipset.

I haven't used Ti yet, but the principle is the same. You just need to up the wattage and temp for the Ti to get a warmer vape. Nickel gets pretty warm though. I vape at 485 degrees at 40 joules, and its pretty thick and warm on the nickel.

Most of what you say is correct.

But, How does one tell about Flavor of Ti vs Ni(which neither should impart flavor) then go on ti state they have NOT used Ti.
Am Assumption?

Properly built NI coils can produce excellent flavorful vapes.

Yes, the Op is misunderstanding TC function in relation to actual Vaping vs attempting to burn cotton.

IPV-D2 25J/425F
SX Mini2 35J/415F

Both produce comparable vapes to Vw mode settings.

Op, you may be missing that Overly hot end of Vape feel. That will pass with a bit of vaping time. Constant at preferred temp is so much better.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

From what I've read in my research is the titanium doesn't have as strong a flavor as nickel.

Hopefully you arent tasting the metal too much..

It ramps up better, but you need to run higher joules/wattages to get it hot enough to get good vapor and flavor. The cotton is going to burn when you first fire either metal since it takes a second for the resistance to change.

Ti does ramp faster for a given build as it has a much lower heat capacity. There is no reason reason why, on a properly calibrated device there should be any need to increase the power or temp. This is mostly dependent on the build not the wire used per se. Also, there is no mysterious lag that you imply. On a properly functioning device, with the correct temp set, it will not burn cotton, dry or otherwise

The temperature sensing is based on the change in resistance so it will fire at first regardless. It heats up slower when covered in juice, so when its wicked and juiced up it will prevent dry hits by cutting off when it his a set resistance based on the algorithm programmed into the chipset.

Not really..The resistance changes with the temp. There is no lag that you imply. The coil ill indeed heat more slowly when drenched in coolant (juice) but the mechaism by which it stops burning of dry cotton, and preventing dry hits is exactly the same.

 

[nkr501]

Most of what you say is correct.

But, How does one tell about Flavor of Ti vs Ni(which neither should impart flavor) then go on ti state they have NOT used Ti.
Am Assumption?

Like I said, I haven't used TI but I did disclaim that I am only going off what I have read from other people and a few reviews I've watched (which I omitted the part about reviews). I should have gone on to state that taste is subjective and everyone will be a little different, so in that my assumption was invalid.

 

[Smellybelly]

Well i did do my studying before I tried tc. The whole time I was using kanthal I was reading about tc and titanium vs nickel. I chose titanium for ease of build and being able to hold its shape better. Also most people stated that taste was just as good so really I deduced that there were no benifits to using nickel. By the way I'm using a veritas to test the build so I mean I should be getting awesome flavor.

I did the cotton test because one this was my first time I was using tc and wanted to make sure it was going to work. It did. And second. The only point to tc to me at least is to avoid dry hits right? So cotton test let's you, especially if your inexperienced as I am with tc, to figure out what temp to set to before risking possible cotton burn. So worked up from 212 degrees testing every 20 degrees and found that at 310 it starting to burn the cotton so I backed it off ten degrees because thats what I read everyone say one how to use tc. So 300 degrees was where I sat.

Also on the sigelei to lock in the resistance you press the down and fire buttons simultaneously and it will do a quick read (which is accurate) and ask you if you want to lock resistance.

I guess I will try some nickel. On steam engine, when you select what wore. For ni200 it ask linear tcr or tfr curve when you select which wire material. What does that mean?

 

[zeus01]

if its one thing io learned in vaping,temp controls,and reading forums and comparing

somtimes we just need to find our own sweet spots and not be dictated by what other people are doing

i have not done the cotton test,and my device does temp control just fine..
is make sure i wicked it properly,
put either a thick wick if i think i will be doing high wattages/temps(much like what mech users ,cloud chasers woudl do)
then prime with juice and vape away or find my sweet spot.

so far ive vaped as high as 310c @75watts
and 600f @75watts
lowest was 480f @50watts

so far (since my device became sane) never had a dry hit issue,
when my wicks are about to dry,its very noticeable,not just because it hits temp protection almost at every hit,but flavor and vapor are noticeably decreasing.,

thus i feel i dont need to do that cotton test,kinda stops me from vaping my preferences.
(so far i had no visible burnt marks on the cotton,but i do have occasionaly seen them singed.)

 

[folkphys]

temp to burn/singe/brown dry cotton is different than the temp to degrade/burn/destroy PG+VG, when the liquid is soaked into a cotton wick. So cotton burn testing is mostly pointless. I taste test with a wet wick.

By the by: Each different formulation of juice (vis, VG/PG ratio, flavor concentration, etc...) is likely to have a different "awfully toasted" taste point. Not to mention the vagaries of each person's particular palate.

 

[puffon]

I guess I will try some nickel. On steam engine, when you select what wore. For ni200 it ask linear tcr or tfr curve when you select which wire material. What does that mean?

That is something new added when the DNA200 came out.
Wrapping for DNA40, I've been using Linear. Either setting shows the same # of wraps tho.
I've found tempered Ni200 has worked best for me, the last 11 months.

 

[Smellybelly]

See I thought you needed to do the cotton test to see where to set your temperature at. So what your saying is just forget the cotton test. Wick it, juice, vape it, set it higher or lower depending on preference, and enjoy. I did notice that vapor and flavor production would dramatically decrease when I would normally need to redripping but no dry hit but this again was at a temperature that I didn't prefer but when I had it at like 450 which I liked I was getting dry hits.

 

[footbag]

Does your device allow Ti? If not, it will be difficult to nail the settings down.

I'd start with Ni200. Build a single coil. Then slowly increase the temp and wattage to taste.

Then decide whether you like TC. If so, then you can try some Ti, but the device must support it or you have to play withthe numbers.

 

[Smellybelly]

I don't think it is meant for ti as far as I have read. I will try some ni200 if I can find some at my b&m's. I don't want to buy 100 ft or whatever and end up not wanting and it and never using it. I'm assuming go for a single coil as it would be ridiculous amount of wraps for dual.

 

[footbag]

I don't think it is meant for ti as far as I have read. I will try some ni200 if I can find some at my b&m's. I don't want to buy 100 ft or whatever and end up not wanting and it and never using it. I'm assuming go for a single coil as it would be ridiculous amount of wraps for dual.

It's not just the number of wraps for a dual coil. Since the device needs to get feedback from the coil, dual coils can mess that up. I'm still struggling with dual coils, but the singles give me an awesome vape.

 

[Smellybelly]

Alright I'll try to get some nickel tomorrow then

 

[mcclintock]

I am also considering that TC would give me the ability to switch between MTL and lung hits with no change of settings. Basically you can forget a lot of technique. Is this accurate?

 

[GeorgeS]

I am also considering that TC would give me the ability to switch between MTL and lung hits with no change of settings. Basically you can forget a lot of technique. Is this accurate?

I run most of my setups @ 380F. It gives a nice cool, mild and not overwhelming vape. On most of them if I simply up the temperature to 430-460F (and adjust the air flow) I'm suddenly clouding up the room - so yes, in my own experience you can adjust the temperature (and air flow) between mildly 'toodle puffing' to cloud chasing.