UPDATE on Vaping.com: Liz Thomson has been defeated and Conrad James wins election!

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AndriaD

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My Favorite picture of the week, besides yours of Conrad. :?)

View attachment 387828

ROFL... Letterman had some funny things to say about it -- "Republicans won the popular vote. Democrats won the UNpopular vote." :D I'm just really glad to know that mizzzzzzzzzz thompson knows that vapers across the country helped defeat her -- maybe other politicos will take note, and tremble.

Andria
 

VHRB2014

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OK, so now we're going to see a major reversal on anti-vaping ordinances? The ball's in the Red court.

You have the helm, let's see how willing your representatives are to support vaping.
VHRB2014, you've found a way to make me feel absolutely awful about something I really hoped would happen (that Conrad James would win).

So, now it's time to stop talking crap about the "libs", "progressives", etc. Let's see what your party will do for us.\

What?

Did I pee in your punchbowl?
 

Plastic Shaman

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As a Democrat in Albuquerque, I can't say that I'm thrilled about this. On the other hand, I wasn't thrilled about the legislation that his opponent planned to introduce at the next session.

Anyways, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade....

But, I would like to point out that this election came at the end of six years of a Democrat in the White House. It's not uncommon for major shifts to happen on the tail end of a party's presence in the White House, even on a local level. Also, District 24 is in an area that is currently undergoing major economic developments. It's not impossible that this might have accounted for some demographic shifts. Not saying that your support didn't change anything, but I wouldn't assume that this is a mandate from the public.

Honestly, I hope you guys made a difference. I hope that my fellow Democrats get the message because harm reduction is something they should be getting on board with.
 

Placebo Effect

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As a Democrat in Albuquerque, I can't say that I'm thrilled about this. On the other hand, I wasn't thrilled about the legislation that his opponent planned to introduce at the next session.

Anyways, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade....

But, I would like to point out that this election came at the end of six years of a Democrat in the White House. It's not uncommon for major shifts to happen on the tail end of a party's presence in the White House, even on a local level. Also, District 24 is in an area that is currently undergoing major economic developments. It's not impossible that this might have accounted for some demographic shifts. Not saying that your support didn't change anything, but I wouldn't assume that this is a mandate from the public.

Honestly, I hope you guys made a difference. I hope that my fellow Democrats get the message because harm reduction is something they should be getting on board with.

Absolutely not a mandate and we certainly didn't get all 336 of those additional voters to the polls, but it's rare that any one organization can take credit for helping elect a politician. As long as you are part of that effort, you can share in the credit.

I encourage you to ask for a meeting with your State House Rep and State Senator to explain harm reduction to them. Feel free to note that as a Democrat, you were disappointed to see vapers working against a Dem, but understood why considering how unnecessarily hostile Thomson was towards this industry.
 

zapped

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My Favorite picture of the week, besides yours of Conrad. :?)

View attachment 387828

Gives a whole new meaning to the term lunatic fringe doesnt it? :toast:

Great news on Conrad winning and with such a close margin I believe we did make a difference even if it was just 50 votes.
 
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Plastic Shaman

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Absolutely not a mandate and we certainly didn't get all 336 of those additional voters to the polls, but it's rare that any one organization can take credit for helping elect a politician. As long as you are part of that effort, you can share in the credit.

I encourage you to ask for a meeting with your State House Rep and State Senator to explain harm reduction to them. Feel free to note that as a Democrat, you were disappointed to see vapers working against a Dem, but understood why considering how unnecessarily hostile Thomson was towards this industry.

I can do that. I also plan to write the Democratic party, although I don't know how much that will do.

The thing that bugs me the most about this whole thing isn't her position itself, it's the massive waste of time and the poor strategy. New Mexico has some major issues such as poverty, lack of resources for the homeless and mentally ill, education, and a lot more. There is rarely anything done about these issues. Instead of focusing on these things, which should really be at the top of Democrat's platform, the representatives in my party waste their time on this nonsense.

The fact of the matter is that the FDA is already wading into this topic. I personally believe that there needs to be regulation and research conducted. This will happen now that the FDA is involved. I know that a lot of you will think that I'm wrong and this is a terrible idea, but that's besides the point. There's no reason for state law makers to take action on this stuff beyond minimum age requirements and perhaps bans on people vaping in some private businesses and public areas, like the grocery store or the movie theater. It's important that we look into the future and try and mitigate risks in the present, but as I said, the FDA will cover this. If there is a substantial risks from e-gics, then the FDA will deal with it. A state representative who has no resources to conduct adequate research has no place making these proposals.

Finally, this is a terrible decision strategically. One thing that all political parties look at is how their actions will effect future elections. We have a number of shops in this city that have done well and there is no way that a flat out flavor ban would not have put them out of business. Destroying small businesses never looks good. Furthermore, this would all be for naught since we could just order stuff online. If flavor bans are one day deemed appropriate, the Federal government should handle that because they are the only ones that can effectively ban flavors.
 

zapped

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I can do that. I also plan to write the Democratic party, although I don't know how much that will do.

The thing that bugs me the most about this whole thing isn't her position itself, it's the massive waste of time and the poor strategy. New Mexico has some major issues such as poverty, lack of resources for the homeless and mentally ill, education, and a lot more. There is rarely anything done about these issues. Instead of focusing on these things, which should really be at the top of Democrat's platform, the representatives in my party waste their time on this nonsense.

The fact of the matter is that the FDA is already wading into this topic. I personally believe that there needs to be regulation and research conducted. This will happen now that the FDA is involved. I know that a lot of you will think that I'm wrong and this is a terrible idea, but that's besides the point. There's no reason for state law makers to take action on this stuff beyond minimum age requirements and perhaps bans on people vaping in some private businesses and public areas, like the grocery store or the movie theater. It's important that we look into the future and try and mitigate risks in the present, but as I said, the FDA will cover this. If there is a substantial risks from e-gics, then the FDA will deal with it. A state representative who has no resources to conduct adequate research has no place making these proposals.

Finally, this is a terrible decision strategically. One thing that all political parties look at is how their actions will effect future elections. We have a number of shops in this city that have done well and there is no way that a flat out flavor ban would not have put them out of business. Destroying small businesses never looks good. Furthermore, this would all be for naught since we could just order stuff online. If flavor bans are one day deemed appropriate, the Federal government should handle that because they are the only ones that can effectively ban flavors.

Actually, I dont think your wrong, I KNOW youre wrong.

The FDA is not our friend and never has been.

Anyone telling themselves otherwise is either delusional or hasnt been around long enough to know better.

Almost 5 years ago I had a successful e-cig company called zapcigs.com and was a registered supplier here on ECF.

Due to a couple of successful reviews of our 901 kits, they were selling like hotcakes, and we decided to roll our initial modest investment in the company as well as the profits we'd made into a larger order.

Bad idea

The FDA seized the entire shipment, 15k dollars worth and destroyed it. Thats a lot of money for a bartender trying to support a family of three on his own.

On top of that they had the nerve to send me a bill for 800 dollars to pay for them destroying my stuff.

The FDA seized other shipments and this was fought by NJoy in front of Judge Leon who ruled the FDAs actions unconstitutional.

This wasnt a class action suit.

It was handled on a case-by-case basis and as a result many of the smaller ecigs companies (there were only a few dozen of us at the time) ended up going out of business and I think this was their intention all along.

I know one supplier here who will remain unnamed who lost 250k dollars but was able to absorb the cost (barely)

The FDA has had it out for us since then and has shown nothing to convince me otherwise in the interim.

End rant/consider yourself informed.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
 
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Plastic Shaman

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Actually, I dont think your wrong, I KNOW youre wrong.

The FDA is not our friend and never has been.

Anyone telling themselves otherwise is either delusional or hasnt been around long enough to know better.

Almost 5 years ago I had a successful e-cig company called zapcigs.com and was a registered supplier here on ECF.

Due to a couple of successful reviews of our 901 kits, they were selling like hotcakes, and we decided to roll our initial modest investment in the company as well as the profits we'd made into a larger order.

Bad idea

The FDA seized the entire shipment, 15k dollars worth and destroyed it. Thats a lot of money for a baretnder trying to support a family of three on his own.

On top of that they had the nerve to send me a bill for 800 dollars to pay for them destroying my stuff.

The FDA seized other shipments and this was fought by NJoy in front of Judge Leon who ruled the FDAs actions unconstitutional.

This wasnt a class action suit.

It was handled on a case-by-case basis and as a result many of the smaller ecigs companies (there were only a few dozen of us at the time) ended up going out of business and I think this was their intention all along.

The FDA has had it out for us since then that time and has shown nothing to convince me otherwise in the interim.

Well, as I said, that's beyond the point. I'm commenting on the efficiency of state legislatures making these laws when the FDA will eventually make rules.

But, I will say this. What you know is wrong might be right to someone else. I'm sorry you had a bad experience and I doubt I will agree with every action the FDA takes in the long run. Still, the FDA has to go through a formal process. Evidence has to be shown that backs up their decision. It's open to many levels of review in court. State laws taking actions like this, depending on the state, have no where near this amount of requirements. That's all I'm trying to say here.
 

readeuler

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Well, as I said, that's beyond the point. I'm commenting on the efficiency of state legislatures making these laws when the FDA will eventually make rules.

I'm failing to see how illegal government seizure is beside the point. This is what we're up against. Whether they take a mile up front or have to settle for "inch by inch", they'll grab whatever they can, ignoring the law if they see fit.

But, now that I've seen your response, I will remember to never waste my time responding in the future.

Finally, my condolences, Zapped. We may not share the same views in general, but that is clearly wrong beyond words. Keep up the good fight.
 

Plastic Shaman

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I'm failing to see how illegal government seizure is beside the point. This is what we're up against. Whether they take a mile up front or have to settle for "inch by inch", they'll grab whatever they can, ignoring the law if they see fit.

But, now that I've seen your response, I will remember to never waste my time responding in the future.

Finally, my condolences, Zapped. We may not share the same views in general, but that is clearly wrong beyond words. Keep up the good fight.

Well, it's always good to see someone is interested in serious, open discussion. I'm glad that there are people in our society that remain objective and keep an open mind in order to advance understanding of the issues at hand.

Even though you probably won't read this, I'll say this. I was not saying that his issue did not matter. I was responding to the statement that the FDA is not our friend. I said that it's besides the point, as I had said in my original post, because I was trying to point out that it was a bad decision for this politician to get involved in this issue. I don't deny that the issue of the FDA is an important one, it was just outside the scope of my original post.
 

AndriaD

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Actually, I dont think your wrong, I KNOW youre wrong.

The FDA is not our friend and never has been.

Anyone telling themselves otherwise is either delusional or hasnt been around long enough to know better.

Almost 5 years ago I had a successful e-cig company called zapcigs.com and was a registered supplier here on ECF.

Due to a couple of successful reviews of our 901 kits, they were selling like hotcakes, and we decided to roll our initial modest investment in the company as well as the profits we'd made into a larger order.

Bad idea

The FDA seized the entire shipment, 15k dollars worth and destroyed it. Thats a lot of money for a bartender trying to support a family of three on his own.

On top of that they had the nerve to send me a bill for 800 dollars to pay for them destroying my stuff.

The FDA seized other shipments and this was fought by NJoy in front of Judge Leon who ruled the FDAs actions unconstitutional.

This wasnt a class action suit.

It was handled on a case-by-case basis and as a result many of the smaller ecigs companies (there were only a few dozen of us at the time) ended up going out of business and I think this was their intention all along.

I know one supplier here who will remain unnamed who lost 250k dollars but was able to absorb the cost (barely)

The FDA has had it out for us since then and has shown nothing to convince me otherwise in the interim.

End rant/consider yourself informed.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

I agree with you, that the FDA has no business doing anything about e-cigs, and as I learned from emailing my congressman, he agrees, that *IF* any further regulations are needed, they should be enacted at the state and local level, NOT federal.

The ONLY reason the FDA is sticking their nose in is because their buttbuddy BP is raising hell about lost profits, and because there is nicotine in e-cigs -- it's a DRUG! Well, guess what?! Caffeine is a drug too, and it's in most of the mainstream colas, tea, and coffee... I don't see the FDA having a connimption fit about THAT, do you? E-cigs are a C0NSUMER PRODUCT just like coffee, tea, and cola, and the FDA has no more business sticking their busybody nose into e-cigs than into coffee, tea, and cola!

We need LESS government, NOT MORE!!!!!!!!!!

Andria
 

HauntedMyst

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I agree with you, that the FDA has no business doing anything about e-cigs, and as I learned from emailing my congressman, he agrees, that *IF* any further regulations are needed, they should be enacted at the state and local level, NOT federal.

The ONLY reason the FDA is sticking their nose in is because their buttbuddy BP is raising hell about lost profits, and because there is nicotine in e-cigs -- it's a DRUG! Well, guess what?! Caffeine is a drug too, and it's in most of the mainstream colas, tea, and coffee... I don't see the FDA having a connimption fit about THAT, do you? E-cigs are a C0NSUMER PRODUCT just like coffee, tea, and cola, and the FDA has no more business sticking their busybody nose into e-cigs than into coffee, tea, and cola!

We need LESS government, NOT MORE!!!!!!!!!!

Andria

Well said Andria
 

Robino1

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The problem, as I see it, since the FDA has taken a negative stance on E-cigs and haven't corrected anything, the local gov's are using that as their blueprint to enact stupid ordinances. It would be nice if the FDA actually came out and said that E-cigs are no worse than long term use of patches, gum etc. and then said it would be up to the local level to decide whether or not to allow vaping in establishments or what have you. But with their negative stance to begin with, we don't have a fair chance with any local governments. We are constantly fighting an uphill battle. I would like to see at least a level starting position.

Since the general public get their info from FDA, WHO etc... that is on what they are basing all the frustrating laws.

When the FDA had the private meetings with all the players, CASAA actually met with officials. What happened in those meetings was not to be publicized so they weren't made available. Just generalizations were reported. The CASAA reps who did attend the meeting said there was some questions asked by the FDA officials. So we were very hopeful that when the proposed deeming was released, there would be a common sense feel to them.

Guess what? There isn't. Do I think the FDA has an agenda? Yes, I do.

They actually have stated that our stories do not mean diddley squat because they are not scientific based. IOW, just because we have stated that our lung function, the fact that we quit smoking (for those of us that have), our better health (add whatever you have found in your personal life) does not qualify since these are not based on scientific fact.

Ok. how do we actually PROVE to the FDA that these really do occur? We can't. I do not trust an agency that will not take into consideration the people that actually use the product and feel the benefits of the product. They only want studies by organizations that DO NOT actually use the product.

Screwed up much?
 
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