FDA Urgent Action Alert: Contact US Senate Commerce Committee before Wednesday at 2:30PM

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Gato del Jugo

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Video screen-shot of the first few seconds of the C-SPAN replay...



Appears that they're all drinking flavored Canada Dry ginger ale..


And you'll notice Blumenthal (far left) appears to be drinking an addictive caffeinated coffee...


[You must put emphasis on those words to make them sound more dramatic..]


ginger ale.jpg
 
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bigdancehawk

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I had the misfortune of subjecting myself to most of this. I finally had to stop watching when Markey started in. It became unbearable. I have rarely witnessed such a display of orchestrated propaganda, hit-and-run grandstanding, ignorance and utter stupidity. At first I was angry, then I laughed at the absurdity of it all, and finally I entered a state of utter despair. That's the state I'm in now. I need a hug. Or a stiff drink.

This isn't just about e-cigarettes. These are the people who we have invested with immense power over our lives, our fortunes and what remains of our liberty. These people are now our masters, not our servants, and we will all dance to their tune.
 

DeadbeatJeff

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Boxer: Who's attracted to flavors of Cherry, Vanilla and Pina Colada?

(Side note: Jman raised his hand high)

Healey: Adult smokers.

Boxer: Oh, that's interesting. (Said with a tone of, 'I think you're lying to us.')

{MODERATED} Cause adults don't DRINK pins coladas

Grrr



Sent from the Northwest Corner, CM
 
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Hulamoon

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Whoa! Wait a minute! "Pina Colada" is a kid's flavor? Uhhhhh……ummmmm…..

Wow, wouldn't the world be a better place if we could just shoot Stupid.

Boxer: Who's attracted to flavors of Cherry, Vanilla and Pina Colada?

(Side note: Jman raised his hand high)

Healey: Adult smokers.

Boxer: Oh, that's interesting. (Said with a tone of, 'I think you're lying to us.')
 
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DeadbeatJeff

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I had the misfortune of subjecting myself to most of this. I finally had to stop watching when Markey started in. It became unbearable. I have rarely witnessed such a display of orchestrated propaganda, hit-and-run grandstanding, ignorance and utter stupidity. At first I was angry, then I laughed at the absurdity of it all, and finally I entered a state of utter despair. That's the state I'm in now. I need a hug. Or a stiff drink.

This isn't just about e-cigarettes. These are the people who we have invested with immense power over our lives, our fortunes and what remains of our liberty. These people are now our masters, not our servants, and we will all dance to their tune.

I'm assuming you want an adult, Virginia Blend drink, rt?

Myself I just threw away my.chocolate porters and an apricot hefe, having decided to just act my age. I dunno WHAT ima do with the Bailey's and Godiva liguor

Sent from the Northwest Corner, CM
 

Hulamoon

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But they're not recommended to adults under the age of TWELVE.

So I guess that's OK then….

I missed about the first 45 minutes of the circus.
Did anyone have the balls to point out that all the FDA approved gums and lozenges are not available in tobacco flavor but instead in candy flavors?
 

AgentAnia

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I had the misfortune of subjecting myself to most of this. I finally had to stop watching when Markey started in. It became unbearable. I have rarely witnessed such a display of orchestrated propaganda, hit-and-run grandstanding, ignorance and utter stupidity. At first I was angry, then I laughed at the absurdity of it all, and finally I entered a state of utter despair. That's the state I'm in now. I need a hug. Or a stiff drink.

This is pretty much what I came online to post, except I made myself sit through the whole damn thing. I think those Senators have been watching films of and copying behavior from the Joseph McCarthy hearings, especially Boxer.

This isn't just about e-cigarettes. These are the people who we have invested with immense power over our lives, our fortunes and what remains of our liberty. These people are now our masters, not our servants, and we will all dance to their tune.

I know what you mean, but IMO they are NOT our masters; they only think they are. I for one will never dance to their tune!

They are elected; to stay in office, they have to be re-elected. I plan on doing everything in my power to make sure they won't be.
 

Kent C

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Kent C

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Blumenthal and Rockefeller esp. put out that attitude that they have the power and their suggestions about 'sitting down and having a conversation about...' (mainly advertising) was really ugly to watch. Healy gave a good response, agreeing to sit down but was clear that he wouldn't agree ahead of time to what he'd consider bad for his business.

Rockefeller's 'porn' analogy was atrocious. I get that many feel they're still in the cigarette fight and haven't transitioned to something that could actually help people. They're 'stuck' in the last battle - which they won, btw, but it wasn't as fulfilling evidently - they have a lot of that anger left over. And like many have stated - the deeming is a gift to the tobacco companies. They don't see it that way.
 

Marc411

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I'm an Illinois resident and sent an e-mail via CASAA to Sen. Richard Durbin and received a response to my e-mail. I won't post it here because it is mostly propaganda that is simply regurgitated by people unwilling to educate themselves on this legislation. That would make to much sense, making a well informed decision based on a gathering of facts.

So I hit reply and thanked them for responding and forwarded several links that I thought would be beneficial. Well what do you think happened, yep I got a response and it was word for word the same exact letter.

It's an act of futility, they do not want to here from their constituents. The money is in their pockets and they will do everything in their power to protect tobacco, Pharma and the Health care fields revenue stream.

After all how could you blame them, it would be a shame to do their jobs and protect the best interest of the people when they would have to give up their vacation homes. They own us and it will not change until a referendum is put in place so we can vote on term limits. Life time politicians need not concern themselves with the little people anymore when a lifetime of lobbyist cash is in their hands.
 
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salemgold

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Jman8

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I watched most of the hearing live, and while I found it to be grandstanding that was frustrating from politically aware vaper's perspective, I would also say I found the whole thing tame. The consistent item that was stated in vein of "I hope we can all agree on this" was with regards to 'don't allow kids to buy this stuff.' Blu's guy said this as well as Njoy's guy and of course everyone else in the room. There are very few politically aware vapers (here on ECF) that would disagree with that position, myself being one of those. Yet, I accept that as majority position and consider it tame in larger battle, and ineffective (kids gonna vape no matter what).

In scheme of things (FDA looming regulations, fact that Congress is more than 7 progressive liberals), this was a tame showing from our opposition. Their arguments routinely came off as silly, and only thing I think they scored points on is why would adult vapers 'need' flavors like cotton candy and gummi bears, while also making point that it would seem those flavors exist mostly to entice kids into vaping. While these 7 or so congresspeople have a visible agenda, I would say in scheme of things, it is very likely to be met with opposition and even in this hearing, even with free reign to grandstand, they weren't able to overcome the legitimate reasons why adults do vape a multitude of flavors.

If we lived in an America right now where Dems were completely on top of their game, and likely to dominate politics for next 10 years, I'd be a little nervous. As it stands right now, I think these people are whistling in the wind. Let 'em have their grandstand event to vent their frustrations in light of what is inevitable (vaping becoming normalized, part of mainstream culture).

I do still think flavors is biggest issue of them all and that it will be hard to avoid what will likely be a move to ban or greatly curtail the availability of choices we have today. This hearing contributed to the groundwork that is being laid to move in that direction. I still expect a ban like that to occur to some degree but also to be overturned, in time, or within decade of such a ban.

The marketing to kids thing will be interesting to see how that plays out (apart from the flavors issue). Seems clear to me that these senators want complete restriction on all advertising, but I think that is entirely unrealistic, and even FDA won't go along with that. While us vapers might like to see ads in more places with idea that it could help a whole bunch of smokers, I think in a world where word of mouth is only means to reach people, vaping would still get its message out quite well. But pretty sure it'll never come to that, and it will be interesting how adults walk the line that allows for marketing to adults while somehow trying to avoid same marketing efforts where kids may or may not be tuned in. I see that as impossible. Unless someone is expressively practicing ageism, I can't think of anything that is able to be not marketed to kids in current society. IOW, as long as a product is being advertised to the mainstream, there is no way to assure zero appeal to kids.
 

DrMA

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NJOY and Blu were either playing a very well-calculated long game that I cannot possibly comprehend or were ridiculously unprepared. To me they looked like deer in headlights. IMO, they should've known this would be a witch trial and they should've been prepared to sit silently thru the grandstanding, and then retort with short, sharp jabs. I wouldn't have expected many opportunities to score points, but I would've definitely taken every second that they were allowed to actually speak to ridicule the monumental stupidity and unrealistic premisses of the Senators' diatribes.

For example, I would've skewered Boxer when she asserted Pina Colada obviously appeals to kids. Same goes for Bluementhal with his ridiculous posters - ask him what kinds of movies "youth" want and why he thinks WoW appeals to "youth"? How about asking the entire committee to provide (in writing) a comprehensive list of flavors, colors, actors, characters, letters, and/or advertising formats and messaging they think appeal to kids, such that Blu and NJoy may avoid them in their future ads? How about presenting the latest data from the ASH and the CDC YRBS, which show teen smoking at record lows in spite of the claimed ad targeting and the gateway fallacy?

Instead, they just sat there and took the abuse, providing occasional monosyllabic responses and canned legal speak with an eery feel reminiscent of the 1994 BT hearings. Again, IMO, today BV missed a huge opportunity to publicly inject some sanity and common sense into the vaping debate...
 

fumarole

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Big Vapor needs to play dumb at these hearings because they can't afford to make enemies - they will, after all, be the main beneficiaries of the regulations. As soon as a product area becomes regulated, playing politics becomes far more important than marketing. You can eliminate your opponents in a few days when otherwise that can either never be done, or only partially done by spending a fortune on marketing and waiting years. Tobacco and pharmaceuticals are markets where regulatory plays are far more important than any other business or marketing strategy - and now vapor joins that group.

With this hearing, you now see how ignorant, stupid and crazy the politicians who decide on your life and death are. Rockefeller for example appears to be absolutely barking mad.

But the fact is no one can possibly be that stupid. Ecigs are going to destroy the immense tax revenues, MSA payments, tobacco revenues, pharmaceutical industry revenues (about 15% of their gross, by my reckoning), multiple other revenue channels and 'personal benefits' that fuel the gravy train. Cross out stupid/ignorant/crazy and insert corrupt. These people are totally, completely, murderously corrupt.
 
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