Urine smells like vape juice

[Letitia]

I recently saw a Netflix documentary on vpaing (e-cigarettes miracle or menace)

Now some of the information was very flawed in my opinion, but what was interesting was a study they did of some lung tissue cell death/damage in three scenarios:

1) Smoking
2) vaping menthol e-juice
3) vaping pina colada e-juice

Of course smoking was the most damaging, no question there. When they compared menthol and pina colada juice though, the percentage of cell damage was markedly higher with menthol than it was pina colada. And this was a substantial difference.

So I guess the take home is that these flavorings were never meant to be inhaled. While menthol for example is safe in cosmetics, edibles, etc, it's not so innocuous when inhaled like we do. Different flavorings most likely have a wide range of possible problems, or how the body will handle them when inhaled.

I would have been interested to see the numbers in a fourth scenario to the above, when just unflavored juice was vaped.

We don't know the long term effects of vaping even just VG/PG yet. Any additional ingredient to ejuice are additional unknowns.

I'm not trying to be a party pooper here, I vape mostly unflavored, a few times a year, I'll vape something with a bit of flavor. Personally, I will probably try to stick with unflavored from here on out. The fewer ingredients, the less risk of long term consequences.

And yes, probably almost any ejuice is safer than smoking. I vape for the nicotine though, not the flavoring, so I figure why not minimize MY risk factors as much as possible? It's all really unknown at this point, other than we're pretty sure it's much less harmful than smoking.

If you need flavors to vape and not smoke, then by all means do so. If you have issues you think are related to a specific flavor and those issues concern you, then try something different.

What percentage was the flavors? Many studies test with a much higher ridiculous percentage than any mix we or the vendors would use.

 

[score69]

What percentage was the flavors? Many studies test with a much higher ridiculous percentage than any mix we or the vendors would use.

I don't believe they mentioned flavor percentages. My assumption (perhaps incorrect) was that they were testing commercially available juices.

Their takeaway was that until there was more information regarding specific flavors and the effects, it would be best to rotate/use multiple flavors to avoid too much of any one flavoring.

They mentioned that they were doing continued testing on additional flavors for comparison sake. Not sure if/when this data will be publicly available. The only two they discussed in the documentary were menthol and pina colada.

I would have been interested to know what the comparison was for unflavored juice as well to see the baseline for PG/VG based liquids without the flavorings.

EDIT: There were definitely some things they could have thought out better. For example, another test they did was to have folks smoke and vape in a chamber where they could determine the particulate content in the air. And they talked about how quickly the particulate count increased for vaping, but these folks were blowing clouds, lol. Would be quite a bit different for MTL.

The summary of that test was that seconhand vape had no significant toxins, much lower nicotine than smoke did. So while it appears secondhand vape isn't bad at all (compared to secondhand smoke), we don't know long term exposure effects.

It was an interesting documentary, but of course it brought up more questions than it answered.

 

[madstabber]

My thoughts exactly. Inhaling the 'smell' of something is completely different than heating it very hot like we do to vaporize the liquid.

Isn’t what he described exactly what we do, albeit not as concentrated? And water as a carrier instead of pg/vg

 

[score69]

Isn’t what he described exactly what we do, albeit not as concentrated? And water as a carrier instead of pg/vg

Yes, it sounds similar, but PG/VG require much higher temperatures to boil than water does.

PG is like 188C, VG is 290C (decomposes at 280C?). So you're heating the ejuice (and dissolved menthol) hotter than 100C, and we know it's very easy to heat the coil way past these temps without using TC. Also, I believe it was a menthol/mint ejuice they used, not just menthol.

In a vape device, the coil can heat the ejuice much higher than the boiling point of the ejuice. Not sure if menthol decomposes at these temperatures like VG can or not. We don't know if they were using TC, what the wattages were, etc.

Anyways, guess I'm just saying it's not an apples/apples comparison. There may be other factors at play here, they didn't say if the VG/PG ratio was the same, that the two ejuices were delivered at the same temperature, etc. So who knows, there's a lot of factors at play, it's possible the pina colada is worse than the menthol if other factors were better controlled? And heck, it could have been the mint that was more of an issue than the menthol component.

If you've got Netflix, check out the documentary some night when you're bored. I think there are a lot of flaws in some of the testing (factors not controlled), but I think it brought up a lot of good questions, and they didn't dump on vaping. They had a small group of folks that tried to quit smoking (CT, with NRT, and with vaping). It was nowhere near scientific, but it gives a lot of our points validity I think.

 

[Katya]

This does not happen with ANY other juice that I have vaped - I have no way to tell if they had acetoin or not.

Then I would suggest that you stick with those other juices and forget the caramel. Nobody here can tell you if acetoin, diketones (diacetyl/acetyl propionyl), butyric acid or something else is the culprit because nobody knows.

And if you have serious health problems, talk to your primary doc or your urologist.

Good luck!

 

[Katya]

I know I can just stop vaping stuff that has Caramel or custard flavours but this also means I will be on the edge looking to know if a juice contains acetoin and acetyl propional - none of the commercial juices (Australia) list this.

I know for a fact (from an email from FA) that Flavor Art's Classic Vanilla and Fresh Cream do not contain any diketones or butyric acid, and most likely no acetoin. When in doubt, contact the manufacturer and ask.

 

[Falconeer]

" Also, I believe it was a menthol/mint ejuice they used, not just menthol"

Actually I did not mention Mint.

We bought Menthol Crystals BPC from a chemist licensed by the Government to dispense controlled substances and these crystals contained only Menthol.

It was thought then that Menthol "opened up the lungs" and therefore aided easier breathing. Incidentally the same used to be believed of cigarettes by early Cyclists competing in the Tour de France!

 

[Katya]

nteresting that for very many years, and throughout my childhood that the standard Scottish home remedy for bronchitis was to get menthol crystals from the chemist, disolve some in hot water in a bowl, then cover your head with a large towel while you leaned over the bowl inhaling the steam.

Doctors actually recommended this treatment.

Times change etc etc etc!

VapoRub side effects, VapoRub ingredients, Baby VapoRub

"Active ingredients in VapoRub: camphor (a cough suppressant and topical analgesic), eucalyptus oil (a cough suppressant) and menthol (a cough suppressant and topical analgesic)."

 

[Falconeer]

VapoRub side effects, VapoRub ingredients, Baby VapoRub

"Active ingredients in VapoRub: camphor (a cough suppressant and topical analgesic), eucalyptus oil (a cough suppressant) and menthol (a cough suppressant and topical analgesic)."

And trust me - some of the old over the counter cough medcines were even worse and could contain morphine , codeine and chloroform - all of which worked in the short term.

In 1950s Britain which ran on coal, where smog was normal, and where most adults smoked it was the norm for kids to have three doses of bronchitis each winter.

BTW Vapor Rub ( chemists own brand "Vick") was shoved up your nose in great dollops so's you'd sleep --- with a rag steeped in camphorated oil tied round your neck after your chest had been rubbed with the same... Happy days (not!)

 

[Katya]

BTW Vapor Rub ( chemists own brand "Vick") was shoved up your nose in great dollops so's you'd sleep --- with a rag steeped in camphorated oil tied round your neck after your chest had been rubbed with the same... Happy days (not!)

I like and use Vick's VapoRub--just a little on my chest helps me breathe when I have a cold. YMMV, of course.

 

[classwife]

What goes in must come out...
Ever had a lot of garlic and others can smell it on you for days ?
As for urine...asparagus is famous for making that smelly.
Someone mentioned sugar levels in diabetics - yep, urine smell changes.
Keep your body happy - keep your urine clear - drink plenty of water.

 

[stols001]

Okay, flavor hater.

I got you beat. I started vaping and my hair went grey.

I don't need a study, I am COMPLETELY convinced it is not correlation BUT causation.

Also, flavor hater, I am (as are most vapers honestly) aware that flavors are OMG synthetic!

I am also aware that they are ubiquitous (meaning, found everywhere.) Unless you stick to fresh produce and meat, (uncooked meat perhaps SOME rice, well I'm sorry but you are ingesting them all over the place.

I'd also LOVE some actual, oh PROOF that bladder cancer is increasing in vapers everywhere.

Best of luck and vape unflavored, would be my advice. That way, you can stop making outlandish claims about what flavors are doing to your pee.

I'd also like to see a study regarding "caramel smelling pee leads to bladder cancer everywhere" that would be nice.

Anna

 

[Katya]

I am surprised nobody else has mentioned that the flavorings are synthetic and are related to fragrance chemistry. Some of these flavorings are quite concentrated and a little goes a long way. I suspect that the flavoring chemical is simply going out virtually unchanged from when you vaped it.
I personally don't vape synthetic flavorings because they nauseate me ( I only do NET) and overwhelm my senses. The extracts I do (Real Extracts) have almost no odor at all.

If I may... From Kurt Kistler, PhD, our resident chemistry guru:

"Each flavor compound used in synthetic flavorings is a known entity with known inhalation safety standards. The vast majority are most likely fine for e-liquids. There are some however that have a bad track record, custard note diketones are just one type, but they seem to be the most dangerous. Meat flavorings can also cause problems, but those are not so popular in vaping.

Whole food extracted flavors, as I said, can have a whole host of biomolecules that the lungs are not good at expelling, and that can be very prone to thermal decomposition.

And decomposition of ANY organic compound, flavors, PG, VG, will create toxic aldehydes and possibly acrolein. And free radicals, which are also toxic. Partial combustion products, generally detected as dry-puff when their concentrations are high enough. If the coil gets too hot, stuff breaks down, and generally into things you don't want to inhale."

Also:

The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

So, I only use synthetic flavorings for vaping and avoid anything and everything "natural, "organic," or directly extracted from food. Just my

 

[chellie]

According to this article - coffee is really bad for you as well.

I had not heard about the link.

Vaping and bladder cancer - The latest scare story explained - Vaped

 

[Katya]

According to this article - coffee is really bad for you as well.

I had not heard about the link.

Vaping and bladder cancer - The latest scare story explained - Vaped

Thank God for Dr. Farsalinos...

 

[stols001]

Oh for every sane person there will be 100 insane people to like, do dumb stuff.

I mean LOOK a Jesus. If you filter out much of religion his ideas were kind of super nice. Heal the sick, feed people NOTAXES, hanging out with ex hookers and like, being nice to them. Also, stoning people was a big no no with him.

They nailed that dude to a cross. Whether he was the son of god or NOT, some of this stuff can be verified, and I am fairly certain that the rather pleasant person who MAY or may not have been a miracle performer but he was a nice dude.... They completely hung him from a cross and sat around gloating waiting for him to die.

The Bible, if read from a historical perspective kind of tells you a lot about humanity and how it has not changed, etc.

Anna

 

[Skeebo]

And trust me - some of the old over the counter cough medcines were even worse and could contain morphine , codeine and chloroform - all of which worked in the short term.

In 1950s Britain which ran on coal, where smog was normal, and where most adults smoked it was the norm for kids to have three doses of bronchitis each winter.

BTW Vapor Rub ( chemists own brand "Vick") was shoved up your nose in great dollops so's you'd sleep --- with a rag steeped in camphorated oil tied round your neck after your chest had been rubbed with the same... Happy days (not!)

Funny story, well not really funny... just ironic. Bayer, the same maker of aspirin, created the big H. It was touted as a miracle drug, non addictive.... and awesome for children!! The good ole days were a little sketchy for sure!

Edited to add: it's so odd this forum won't allow certain words during discussions. Working class language and discussions should not be so muted.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Funny story, well not really funny... just ironic. Bayer, the same maker of aspirin, created the big H. It was touted as a miracle drug, non addictive.... and awesome for children!! The good ole days were a little sketchy for sure!

Edited to add: it's so odd this forum won't allow certain words during discussions. Working class language and discussions should not be so muted.

Got it's name as the Hero.

 

[mac-nutty]

i get the same smelling piss when i vape custards for afew days there are others complaining about the same thing

sitting here with toffee juice i just opened il stay on that for a few days and post back if toffee does it too

 

[Coyote628]

I think that as long as your vape doesnt smell like urine, everything should be ok.