US surveys show 15 - 21 million vapers - the chat thread
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That
Or
They could be users who are not yet ready to quit smoking completely but are working towards that.
Or
They could be users who have never seen anything more advanced than a cigalike, and therefore have not found something sufficient to help them quit.
Assumptions can be dangerous.
And as I believe we've discussed before, I don't know anyone in person who IS a dual user. and I know at least a dozen vapers personally. All of them are former smokers, all but one are currently only vapers, one has quit both entirely.
I don't hang out in vaping circles in the US; just normal people from work; many of whom have their chargers and cigalike plugged into a computer at their work center- all smokers, but according to teh statistics, most vapers are dual users...
I don't either. I got two people at my work started vaping, one of those is the one who no longer smokes or vapes. My grandmother-in-law I set up with an ego kit, she still occasionally vapes, no longer smokes. The rest would be local ECF members that I have met over the past couple years, we started meeting up back when my area opened up its first local vape shop. I suppose they could be considered a "vaping circle" but they're definitely not the young crowd most people would think of from that phrase.
Oh wait, there was one guy that I met almost a year ago while out at a customer site. He was a dual user, but he had just gotten his first ego-type battery and a carto tank. I haven't talked to him since, so he could possibly still be a dual user.
I think the continuing popularity of cigalikes is due to market saturation, they are mostly what you find outside of specialty shops, vuse and mark ten are in just about every gas station/convenience store, and smokers' tendency to want to start with something that looks like a cigarette.
Most people using cigalikes are doing so because they don't know any better.
And the powers that be would LOVE to keep it that way.
It is no coincidence that cigalike users are FAR more likely to be dual users.
But in time, a very large percentage of them will come around.
This is all just common sense.
And the powers that be would LOVE to keep it that way.
It is no coincidence that cigalike users are FAR more likely to be dual users.
But in time, a very large percentage of them will come around.
This is all just common sense.
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Hi Stevegmu!
Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Alison and I live near Victoria, British Columbia in Canada. Now I realize this is not "face-to-face" and "in-person", but I assure you I am a real person. I vape exclusively and have not smoked a cigarette for well over a year and a half. I vape a variable voltage/wattage APV, not a cig-a-like. I was a smoker for 40 years and had built up to two packs a day prior to accidentally quitting smoking when I tried vaping. Several of my co-workers also vape exclusively. I doubt that any of them would if all they had to vape were cig-a-likes. We do not vape to avoid the smoking bans. In fact, we vape outside with our old smoking buddies - many of whom have expressed interest in trying out "this vaping thing". There is no particular policy concerning vaping at my workplace, we just enjoy getting out in the fresh air and socializing for a few minutes from time to time, as we all have fairly stressful and intense jobs. Outside is actually quite pleasant, Victoria has very mild winters - our daffodils are in full bloom and the cherry blossoms are out in force in February.
So there, you've now been introduced to a "real, live, ex-/non- smoking vaper".
As a dual user, I'd be very interested in knowing if these people prefer one over the other, and to what degree.
Like I'm around a 90/10 split: 90% of the time I favor vaping 10% (likely less), I favor smoking.
I'm sure with newbie vapers, the percentage could be the other way, where they prefer smoking over vaping. But I want to see how many dual users after 1 year prefer smoking over vaping.
Given the huge disparity in the numbers being reported, I think such investigation would be highly pertinent to the discussion. Feel free to contribute your own research information here (among you and people you know). Of the dual users I know, most prefer vaping over smoking. I don't know if it's at the 90/10 split, but of all the ones I know, I've been vaping the longest, and of the ones I know, one went to 90/10 before I did.
That's just wrong. Calling "regular cigarette smoking' 10 or more days during any month.
By this standard, I'm not a regular cigarette user. But I could be next month.
IMO, of all the smokers I've ever met (at any point in my history), the PAD is the general standard, or no less than half a pack a day. So, I would say cigs per month at around 300 to 500 would be good range for regular use. But regular use is also, traditionally speaking, chronic abusive use.
Of the people I currently know who smoke cigarettes (and don't vape), I would say 24 in 25 is a regular user by the PAD standard.
I routinely observe these numbers from such studies are massaged in such a way to not match any reality of what I'm familiar with, in regards to traditional smoke use. And the whole dual use thing is so greatly misunderstood that just tossing it into the mix, with the inherent biases had by all, is meant to serve an agenda where tobacco use is not understood as a recreational choice. From reading this thread, I'm pretty sure many vapers don't even get what dual use is like, and think of it instead as an inherent problem for vaping. IMO, it's the ex-smoking ANTZ-like positioning where the problem (for vaping) clearly resides.
The ones I know are at work, who vape where they can't smoke. Some quit smoking for a while when I loaned them a Halo Triton setup, but eventually found the maintenance and extra work of vaping to be too much, so went back to smoking full time. Now they use cigalikes at work and other places where smoking is not allowed.
One of my girlfriends was a heavy smoker until I set her up with a PV-1 kit. She now only smokes when she's out drinking. She prefers the taste of e-liquid over cigarettes, but feels out of place when drinking with her friends, being the only one vaping, so she smokes.
I smoke a handful of cigarettes twice a year on holiday, so consider myself a dual user...
I don't consider it a problem for vaping, if that's what you choose to do, and what works for you, I think even one less cigarette a day is a harm reduction. Also, yes, the classifications for "regular" use are all over the place. By the 10/month standard stevegmu isn't a dual user, but by his own standard he is. I just don't personally know anyone who has continued to use both after an initial transitioning period.
I do however know one person who tried vaping, didn't like it, and continues to smoke.
People are very different, isn't it great that we have so many choices available to us that we can all customize our experiences to suit our needs?
Hello Dr. Glantz, I didn't know you were a member here
Other studies have shown that by and large dual use also means a reduction in smoking, so it's a little more than just this very ANTZ take.
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Hello Dr. Glantz, I didn't know you were a member here
Other surveys have shown that by and large dual use also means a reduction in smoking, so it's a little more than just this very ANTZ take.
Perhaps the numbers don't match your agenda...
They don't back yours at all. Assigning intention like you did is exactly the kind of agenda-driven spin we accuse the ANTZ of engaging in.
In fact recent studies show that among dual users, cigarette consumption drops. Biochemically verified smoking cessation and vaping beliefs among vape store customers - Tackett - Addiction - Wiley Online Library
I didn't say anything about dual users not smoking less. If they are vaping when they would have been smoking, of course they are smoking less...
The fanatical we you speak of are not at all representative of the average vaper...
What? You said they vape to get around bans. In ban situations they would not be smoking when they are vaping.
Now if they then subsequently do not smoke when they would have otherwise gone for a smoke in a permitted area, that is a smoking reduction and the people are using it for reducing smoking, not just to get around bans.
Regardless, again, assigning that intent to the data is simply impossible. There is not enough data there to draw that conclusion, and drawing it is purely in service of agenda.
The ones I know at work who vape do so to get around the smoking bans at work. There is no permitted smoking area at work. I imagine this is not an isolated circumstance...
Right, BUT viewing it as getting around a ban is the ANTZ view, objectively and from the harm reduction standpoint they are using it to reduce smoking and/or other tobacco use. It occupies a similar space as NRT or cessation drugs would, and those are not considered circumventing. Only if you view vaping as equivalent to tobacco use as the ANTZ do can it be first and foremost looked at as circumventing a ban.
The fact that it reduces smoking overall regardless of intent is a benefit, but the ANTZ always ignore that part.
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Not many people quit on cigalikes. The whole point of them is to use them where one can not smoke. That's why they have such a high nic content. Get a quick hit until one can smoke a cigarette...
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