It could be a sign of genius. Or narcissism.
I would investigate Hotchkiss' criteria to find out which one.
US surveys show 15 - 21 million vapers - the chat thread
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It could be a sign of genius. Or narcissism.
I would investigate Hotchkiss' criteria to find out which one.
I think that quite a few smokers may have little to no interest in quitting cigarettes entirely, but want to reduce harm by smoking far fewer -- which is entirely valid, if that's what someone chooses. And I've noticed quite a few around here who were unable to quit cigarettes entirely until they got some kind of puff the magic dragon setup (RDA, mega clouds, high nic level, etc), and I'm sure a lot of smokers have zero interest in getting that involved and technical -- one of the main gripes I see about vaping is that it's "harder than smoking."
In effect, they want something the size and shape of a cigarette that hits like a 26650 mod topped with a cloud chasing RDA filled with 24mg -- since that's not possible, they have this idea that "vaping doesn't work" when in fact, it's THEIR CHOICE that doesn't work, but it's easier to blame "vaping" than take responsibility for their own choice -- just like those idiots who used to sue BT because they chose to smoke and ended up with cancer. Hardly anyone wants or is capable of taking responsibility for their own choices anymore; it's always someone else's fault. My own experience, as a 39 yr smoker who was dead set against quitting because I really didn't think it was possible, is that with proper effort and motivation, it's possible to quit with a cigalike -- I quit the first time, last Feb, using an eRoll with 6mg liquid. Whether I could have *sustained* that long-term, with all the annoyances of cigalikes, I don't know, because I got my first upgrade on the day that was my actual first day smoke-free -- but a great many smokers have no interest in upgrading to anything that doesn't resemble a cigarette; they're too attached to the mental aspect, the size and shape, to even give some other form factor a try. A bad case of someone who WILL NOT see, because they're determined not to -- they've closed their minds to anything other than the familiar.
Andria
I haven't seen anyone lately using a cigalike. It appears like mod heaven around here with an eGo being a starting point. This might be location specific since we have one outstanding vape shop plus a handful of others in the area. It appears many are learning from earlier adopters to "go big or go home".
To me, the wonderful thing about dual users is that they very very likely have reduced smoking dramatically. But to me, that is not wonderful because I think smoking is inherently unhealthy. I see it as great news because the addiction (to smoking) is either significantly altered or eliminated, and I truly believe it is the main, if not sole, reason why smoking is harped on in a negative way. Also the reason vaping is pounced on in a negative way. Yet, there is a portion that get the issue(s) in the way that politically aware vapers do, but take the exact opposite stance. That the vaper's reduction in smoking has not altered their addiction, and that vaping is a variation of smoking, and thus no 'real' reduction has occurred.
I wish people, on either side, were not so hung up on the cessation notion, as if that is the pinnacle of success when it comes to smoking. Yet, I currently see no way around this when everyone, and their mother, does believe smoking is inherently unhealthy. Challenge anyone on this and observe a bit of stammering and lots of group think at work.
Because dual using does greatly reduce and thus likely eliminates addiction (to smoking), I see it as successful as quitting. I truly do. Had I not previously had lots of experience with cold turkey, I might stammer on this point, but seeing that I do, it is rather easy, for me, to make this assertion and stick to it. For no smoker that I am aware of knows only smokers who use lightly, and instead know a whole bunch of PAD smokers or more. But we are (clearly) transitioning into a world where the majority of (still) smokers will be lightly using. That transition will probably take some time especially while the politics and negative campaigning is playing out at a very visible level.
The political debate here is like so many other issues where people want to pigeon hole you, as in, you're either a smoker or a vaper, but you can't be both. I always find way more political sanity with identifying with both, than picking sides and assuming one is inherently superior to the other. So, I usually don't feel like I'm on same exact side as vaper that wants to throw smokers under the political bus, but I am closer to their politics than the anti-type that just assume see both sides eliminated from existence.
Though I do take some solace in the idea that currently a majority of vapers are dual using (identifying with both) as I do not like the ex-smoker who joins the chorus of anti-smoking rhetoric. However when it comes to political debating, I find it enjoyable to take that rhetoric and decimate it. ANTZ logic is the adversarial position. Everyone (else) is 'one of us.'
I wish people, on either side, were not so hung up on the cessation notion, as if that is the pinnacle of success when it comes to smoking. Yet, I currently see no way around this when everyone, and their mother, does believe smoking is inherently unhealthy. Challenge anyone on this and observe a bit of stammering and lots of group think at work.
Because dual using does greatly reduce and thus likely eliminates addiction (to smoking), I see it as successful as quitting. I truly do. Had I not previously had lots of experience with cold turkey, I might stammer on this point, but seeing that I do, it is rather easy, for me, to make this assertion and stick to it. For no smoker that I am aware of knows only smokers who use lightly, and instead know a whole bunch of PAD smokers or more. But we are (clearly) transitioning into a world where the majority of (still) smokers will be lightly using. That transition will probably take some time especially while the politics and negative campaigning is playing out at a very visible level.
The political debate here is like so many other issues where people want to pigeon hole you, as in, you're either a smoker or a vaper, but you can't be both. I always find way more political sanity with identifying with both, than picking sides and assuming one is inherently superior to the other. So, I usually don't feel like I'm on same exact side as vaper that wants to throw smokers under the political bus, but I am closer to their politics than the anti-type that just assume see both sides eliminated from existence.
Though I do take some solace in the idea that currently a majority of vapers are dual using (identifying with both) as I do not like the ex-smoker who joins the chorus of anti-smoking rhetoric. However when it comes to political debating, I find it enjoyable to take that rhetoric and decimate it. ANTZ logic is the adversarial position. Everyone (else) is 'one of us.'
Great post. Although, to me, vaping is not the same as smoking at all, it does satisfy the "urge to smoke" very well, so I definitely would still fall on the side of smokers, politically -- even though I don't want any smoking anywhere around me because it smells so foul.
How can something be both foul-smelling and tempting at the same time? I can't puzzle that one out at all, but the other day when a guy lit up about 20 ft away from, outside the service entrance at the car dealership, my fleeing indoors was for both reasons -- yes, it stank, but it smelled so familiar -- I had to get away from that! I sure don't want those awful cravings to come back!I actually have known a very light, moderate smoker -- my stepfather. He smoked half a pk a day at the very most, the entire time I knew him to smoke, and most of the time even less; he finally only quit when he had a stroke about 25 yrs ago. But that's just part and parcel of his personality -- he's also one of the very few people I know who could be perfectly happy with just one beer.
I've noticed that there are some smokers who switch to vaping, who then feel this need to "convert" everyone else. If it's a spouse or other cohabitant, I can understand that, just to get that bad smell away and out of one's house, but for others -- siblings, friends, co-workers... just because you switched to vaping and think it's great, it doesn't automatically follow that everyone is going to feel the same, nor is there any reason why they should, even if they've tried vaping; some folks around here have a really hard time finding a vape they can be happy with and stick to, even with the highest motivation and best advice in the world -- someone who's really not all that interested in quitting might try vaping, but that doesn't mean they necessarily want or need to make such a big change in their own lives. We should not take the ANTZ example of trying to busybody everyone into being just like us.
Andria
I still find attractive the smell of *some* lit cigarettes / cigarillos. What I universally dislike is ash / butts especially when wet.
What about the 1.5 to 2.1 million that starting vaping that switched from breathing air?
Clever. The new agenda for vapers should be to end mass production. Let's make our own vapes now.This air?
I acknowledge with great applause 818. Although I personally chose not to buy that "next carton", I had never set out to quit so theoretically I could choose to have an "analog" cigarette at any time. I actually don't want to as vanilla custard tastes soo much better! Perhaps that is the "secret" to becoming smoke-free - don't quit smoking, just carry vaping on until you truly don't want to smoke any more.
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Clever. The new agenda for vapers should be to end mass production. Let's make our own vapes now.
How about "end mass production of junk". Like in making more durable products.
Exactly what I did!
It's just one big old mind game.That sounds like a great way to create unemployment.
If they started vaping instead of smoking, I think most would see that as a win. Even if they didn't, what exactly is the harm?
Exactly what I did!
That sounds like a great way to create unemployment.
Actually... if they brought all those jobs back to the US that were outsourced to the 3rd world, it would both a) lessen the amount of junk being made, and b) create more employment for American citizens.
Andria
I like the smell of cigarettes. Both unlit and smoking. Too much of it in a confined environment
or when entering an establishment a bit out of breath from having hurried the four blocks from where
you had to park your vehicle to the appointment
you walk the four blocks to..bothers me.
Ashes and wet butts we agree about completely
When I quit smoking I grossed my self out by chain smoking
four packs of cigarettes and putting all the butts in an ashtray half full of water.
I hear you and agree that vaping tastes better than smoking. But I can't say I agree with that 100% of the time. It's like I say, soda tastes better than beer. If I go to the place where people love beer (which is most places in my neck of the woods), and claim soda always tastes better than beer, I'll likely get disagreement. In my experience, it is literally always. But sometimes, I do find myself enjoying the taste of a beer. Likewise, there are times when I do enjoy the taste of a smoke. If you are currently anti-smoking (for yourself), then you'll disagree strongly. I'll never win that argument. If I go to the smokers, I'll not face the same uphill / pointless battle. And because no soda tastes exactly like a great beer, nor a vape tastes exactly like a great cigarette, I would hope you could understand how one could want to smoke for the taste, even while that seems entirely backwards in your (and likely vast majority of vaper's) opinion. 95% of the time, I'd much prefer to vape. 5% or less, I do prefer smoking. It still has some pros that vaping currently cannot match. But the pros vs. cons list, in my book (and I think everyone else's) strongly favors vaping.
I think I've gotten to a point in my vaping experience and preferences where I could not smoke a half a pack or more in a day. Haven't had more than one in a day in a long time (like 6 weeks or so). So, I like to think my doing 10 in a day would be like an ex-smoker's experience of doing one in a day, it just would be simply undesirable, not worth even trying.
But that is the other thing with dual using that I think is accurate over the long term (and not so much in say first 3 to 9 months of vaping) where you simply can't go back to full time smoking once you develop any sort of preference for vaping. I think that matters very much to the ongoing political debate. For the longest time, I thought dual users and some vapers were hanging onto some fine line where a simple nudge and they'd be right back to PAD smoking. I no longer see that as true, and think if current vaper who is ex-smoker took up smoking again, that they'd a) prefer vaping and b) not exceed a certain amount of smokes in a day for as long as they are dual using. I think that number would be around 4, but could see how it might go as high as 15. Though over time, I would really be surprised if it went over 8, and well, any way you slice it, that is a monumental reduction over amount of smoking that vast majority of us experienced when we self identified as a smoker.
When I rinse out empty ejuice bottles, that's the smell I always get... wet ashtray. I have to avert my face with the first couple rinses. It must be the nicotine, because I get it even with sweet ejuice, all mine is about 10mg and 7% 24mg WTA.
Andria
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