USB problems-Is it me?

[NewLou]

Non-tech savvy question here. I did a search, but unfortunately, can't search on 3 characters, so don't know if I missed any relevant posts.

When I plug in my 2 pass-throughs or my USB charger, they shut down my wireless mouse (plugged into the other USB slot. They are USB 2.0) I have to reboot to get going again.

I saw a post by Adrenalynn that might indicate that using the CoolCart might have something to do with it.

I got my 1st PT a week ago, and was happily using it. Didn't use the USB charger until a couple days ago. Charged with it once, over night (dumb, I know). The batt got charged no problem. Then yesterday, I got another PT with my order, and vaped with that for a while with my new Wow CinnamonAppleCranberry (yum!). Later, I went back and all of the problems started.

I know I need to get a USB/AC hub, I just hadn't gotten around to it. What I am wondering is if I should assume I did something wrong, or if I should go ahead and contact V4L? I don't want to bother them if I am the one that messed up.

TIA, Lou

 

[JoeChemo]

I think you need to isolate the problem. Find someone with an USB AC adapter or a powered USB hub and see if the problem is resolved.

Also, vBulletin searches are kind of clunky. Try this next time you want to search the forum for info. Search for the following using Google. Replace the xxxxxxxxxxx with your search term(s).

site:e-cigarette-forum.com xxxxxxxxxxx

i.e.

site:e-cigarette-forum.com USB

Hope this helps!

 

[NewLou]

Thanks, Joe. I try to research before I come to the group with a question, but didn't know this trick! I had some success searching using the word "computer", and found the post I mentioned.

I'll go now and see what I find!

 

[NewLou]

OK. I found another USB powered device to try in the USB ports (these are on the front of the computer.) It is a microphone my son uses sometime when gaming online.

I plugged into one USB port...nothing. I think this one is dead, and it is the one I have been using to vape and to charge that one time.

Plugged into the other USB slot, which is right next to the one the mouse is plugged into, and my mouse didn't work, so had to reboot, and then it did again.

So, I'm thinking it is my USBs that are the problem. (I don't have anything else I can use to test out the charger and PTs to see if they still work.)

Question: could the PTs and or charger have caused my USBs to go dead? It does say 2.0 right by the USB ports, but this is an older computer (couple years, I think.)

Thanks again, all.

 

[JoeChemo]

Question: could the PTs and or charger have caused my USBs to go dead? It does say 2.0 right by the USB ports, but this is an older computer (couple years, I think.)

Thanks again, all.

It's possible. I've encountered ports on PCs that wouldn't recognize a USB device while the others would. How about the back of your PC? Should be additonal USB ports there. You might also check Device Manager to see if you are showing a hardware error in Windows (I'm assuming you have a Windows PC).

 

[NuGalicia]

"USB ports rarely, if ever, turn off power. The USB spec isn't specific about this, but it's sometimes believed that USB power may be disconnected as a result of failed enumeration, or other software or firmware problems. In actual practice, no USB host shuts off USB power for anything other than an electrical fault (such as a short). Most notebook and mother-board makers are unwilling to pay for fault protection, let alone smart power switching."
from charge battery using USB Page of in the 'Theory vs. Reality' section of the article

Bottom line: your charger or batt has a short which the computer detects. It may work for years, or it could burn your house down tomorrow. I wouldn't trust it.

 

[NuGalicia]

...Also, vBulletin searches are kind of clunky...

Amen to that!! Searches here using 2 words only find the 1st word!

 

[Adrenalynn]

Any overcurrent situation is a "short" as far as the polyfuse is concerned. Including a cartomizer that is drawing overspec.

 

[NewLou]

OK, more info: All devices work using the USB ports on the back of the computer. So I moved the mouse connection to one of the 2 slots on the back. This leaves the 3 on the front. I tried plugging in the charger to the slot that previously worked: the blue light lit up. Then I tried both PTs in the same slot: they worked (I quickly unplugged them!) Mouse did not freeze up.

The mouse has now frozen up when I tried the 3rd USB slot, it is next to some other slots we never use...there are 4 other ones, one says SmartMedia, one says Memory Stick/Pro. These are right below an empty expansion bay, and that is below the cd/dvd slot. So I am not sure if the one that is not working is in an expansion slot or not, if it is part of some hardware that was added for gaming, etc.

Augh! I hate being so stupid about this stuff! It is quite embarrassing to try to explain what is wrong using all of the wrong terminology, etc. My mouse is frozen, so I am going to reboot (AGAIN!) and come back. I expect to be spanked, but at least help me know what I did wrong so I don't do it in the future.

In the meantime, I will not be using my computer as a power device for my USB items! The hard part for me is figuring out where to go in person to purchase the correct type of hub and 5v/2A adapter. (I can't remember at the moment if the USB hubs tend to be underpowered or not.) Oh, well, if I have to order online, it won't kill me. I just would prefer to go pick it up in person.

Thanks to all for tolerating my newbie questions and mistake!

And did I mention how much I hate Windows? (insert grumpy face here.)

 

[K24A3]

NewLou, Since you have a Desktop PC, you should plug the PT directly into the rear of the Desktop. The rear ports get the power directly from the PSU's 5v line. The USB wires leading to the front USB ports are just too thin for high powered USB devices.

Using the PT on a hub is probably not a good idea unless the Hub has its own AC Adapter (and a beefy one for that matter).

If the PT even causes problems on the Rear Ports, then you may need to upgrade the PSU in your PC (For example, an Antec TruePower 650w). Many PC's come with terribly cheap PSU's with a dirty unstable 5v line.

You may also want to re-organize the power cables inside the PC.
If your ATI/nVidia Video Card requires its own power cable(s), make sure those cables are not shared with other devices.



My Japanese laptop shuts off the USB port if there is too much current, and it shuts off the USB port next to it as well. But it only happens with the USB PT, not the USB Charger.

 

[K24A3]

By the way, to search for 3-letter words in vBulletin forums, just add an Asterisk to the end of the word.

For example:

USB*

 

[NewLou]

Thanks for the info, K24A3. I am planning to get a hub that does not connect to the PC at all, just plug into AC. I can't use the rear USB ports very easily because the unit is a big honkin' thing that sits under the desk. PITA.

Serves me right for not following the expert's advice, tho'. I had read all of the posts recommending the USB/AC hub, but I was too impatient to use my PT! Live and learn! At least there is no major harm done, and with the help of you guys, I learned that my vaping equipment is OK!

Thanks for the search tip. I had wondered about using *. The method that ChemoJoe gave also worked well.

I really appreciate all y'alls patience with this! -Lou-

 

[Adrenalynn]

>> The rear ports get the power directly from the PSU's 5v line

Nope! They get it from the chipset, per multiple requirements, not the least of which FCC.

Even 404 Circular Mills is only going to give us ~ 0.15v drop for a foot. Most are heavier than 24 AWG. 0.15v is not going to self-heat that cable for a foot more than the ambient case temperature for a typical PC, and certainly not out of spec. We need to look at run length before we call something out of spec.

 

[NewLou]

>> The rear ports get the power directly from the PSU's 5v line

Nope! They get it from the chipset, per multiple requirements, not the least of which FCC.

Even 404 Circular Mills is only going to give us ~ 0.15v drop for a foot. Most are heavier than 24 AWG. 0.15v is not going to self-heat that cable for a foot more than the ambient case temperature for a typical PC, and certainly not out of spec. We need to look at run length before we call something out of spec.

Hey, Addy. So what does this mean for a Liberal Arts type that doesn't really care so much how it works, as long as it does work? Are you of the "get the AC powered port" camp, or are you saying the rear ports (if I could reach them) would be well enough powered?

 

[K24A3]

Adrenalynn, are you sure the 5v comes from the chipset? I thought USB was powered from the 5v line on the mainboard rather than through the Southbridge. But anyway maybe you are right, or maybe it depends on the mobo manufacturer/design. Either way, the 5v supply is much more stable at the rear USB ports than the front of a cheap PC case. I cant even run a 2.5" USB HDD on the front of my PC lol, but the rear runs the HDD and PT perfectly.


NewLou, I totally agree that its awkward to connect a PT in the rear ports all the time. I've actually plugged in a USB extension cord (a decent one) in the rear of the Desktop and used blutac and electrical tape to attach the extension to the front of the PC. Now it takes only a second to plug in the PT

 

[Adrenalynn]

Getting too close to bed for me to set up the inspection microscope tonight, but yes - chipset's switching the power identically for all ports. If it weren't, the BIOS wouldn't be flagging the OS to pop-up those annoying over-power messages.

All the USB roots power comes from the same place. Instead of home-running the power across the board (a routing nightmare) they're generally tied together with a PTC in between. Depending upon which layer the board is routing signal power plane on, you may or may not be able to see the tie between the USB headers for power and power ground (which is usually base layer). If you look at an older board held up to a bright light it should be pretty visible.

Regardless, and in answer to Lou's question: The original generation of cartomizers pushed the limit of USB 2.0 spec. Current cartomizers drive it waaaay over spec. Plugging it into the wall or a 12vDC adapter is the only course of action that I would endorse. An older Blackberry 2750 charger works pretty well for almost free if you can find them. Every now and again I see them on fleabay going for ~$3-4.

 

[K24A3]

Sounds like you have an Electrical Engineering Degree so I wont argue

Has anyone here actually measured the current of the PT using a Multimeter?
I'm assuming it gets close to 1500mA with a low resistance Carto.

I guess any 5v 2A+ AC Adapter will do (with the original plug cut off in place of a USB Connector off course).

 

[K24A3]

NewLou, a USB Y Adapter may help in your situation. External USB HDD's use these cables all the time and work great.

 

[NewLou]

NewLou, a USB Y Adapter may help in your situation. External USB HDD's use these cables all the time and work great.

Interesting! Would this work using the 2 slots on the front of the PC?

 

[JoeChemo]

Yes

5 bucks on ebay: New USB Female to 2 USB A Male Power Y Cable Extension - eBay (item 390175349100 end time Jul-24-10 14:07:22 PDT)