USB is killing my pass-thru's!

[VapingRulz]

I have a problem and I'm hoping someone here can give me some advice.

I've been using my various PT's at the computer for seven months without a single problem. Yesterday I fried not one but TWO different PT's and I don't understand what's going on. I don't think the PT's are the problem - I think there's something wrong with the USB port. Suddenly I was getting pop-up messages saying something along the lines that the PT was exceeding the power available from the USB port, then I'd see a wisp of smoke coming from the PT... and it died.

I have a PC and now I'm down to one spare PT, which I'm afraid to plug in to the USB port because it may kill it.

What happened to cause my USB port to suddenly find the PT overwhelming? Can anyone shed some light on this mystery?

 

[BigD]

My sister-in-law had the same problems with using her PT in her computers USB ports. I don't recomment it. It can cause over current conditions and possibly fry your motherboard. I suggest you get a self powered USB port hub and/or a 2amp,5v ac to usb wall adapter, madvapes carries this.

 

[krazie_Kid]

If you have a left usb port, that port can support a higher amp. if you plug it into the right side, it will do that.

 

[VapingRulz]

Thanks for your suggestions! I guess I need to get one of those self-powered units because I really miss having a PT.

Thanks again!

 

[Adrenalynn]

There's no consistency between "left and right" ports being higher or lower power. There is nothing in the USB standard that I'm aware of calling for such a distinction. As an example: My netbook has the same delivery to all the USB ports, left and right.

A power supply can't deliver any more current than the device attempts to source. If you plug it into a trillion watt power source, you're still going to draw the same <~ 10 watts.

There is some chance that somehow the power regulation to your USB ports has decided to fail, delivering too much voltage. That'd be pretty odd since the USB Root on the machine should release its magic smoke before that happens, but one can imagine conditions where that might happen.

PT's should NOT kill any motherboard from this century. The polyfuse (polymeric positive temperature coefficient overcurrent protector [PTC]) trips, protecting the motherboard (as it's designed to do). In order to bear the USB 2.0 logo, this is a requirement. An over-current message from the operating system is just to let you know that a cranky device has tried to over-draw the available power and the polyfuse shut it down. Unplugging the offending device, and in some cases, shutting down the machine for a few minutes, allowing the polyfuse to cool and thereby reset is all that's required.

As to why those PTs are failing, I might hazard a guess that the "premium" cartomizers are putting too much strain on them, drawing more current through them then they're designed for. Giving them an external power source with more available current will just kill 'em quicker if that's the case.

 

[Nilius]

There's no consistency between "left and right" ports being higher or lower power. There is nothing in the USB standard that I'm aware of calling for such a distinction. As an example: My netbook has the same delivery to all the USB ports, left and right.

I think that was a reference to a post somewhere around here (can't find it now) where someone said that on (maybe older?) Macs there is a difference in power on the left and right

 

[MikeyB]

look they are PT's they are MADE for you to sit are your computer and vape, otherwise they would be worthless, the suggestion to get a external USB...well if that was the case I think we would have been made aware of this in the packaging. PT's are made for use while at the PC, USB ports are traditionally only on computers, not wall units. I would suggest going to newegg.com and getting a new usb port setup because if you ask me there is some thing wrong with either the USB wires/ground going to the PC or the port themselves. It will cost you under $10 and maybe a 10 minute install.

Also if you could post the specs on your PC I could help further...

 

[Adrenalynn]

Hi Mikey, welcome to the forum!

Being new, you might have missed the migration from higher-resistance to much lower resistance cartomizers.

Current draw on the lower resistance cartomizers is much higher. It's intended to make low-voltage batteries seem more like higher-voltage devices.

Alas, they drive the USB out-of-spec for current draw (simple Ohms Law).

Now that you're caught-up, please reconsider your analysis.

 

[Adrenalynn]

Nilius - true enough. And some notebooks that have combined 2.0 and 1.1 ports put 2.0 on one side (often in back) and 1.1 on the side or front (on the theory that HID is low-bandwidth where storage media and similar are not going to need to be connected frequently)

 

[VapingRulz]

Thanks for all of the input - I appreciate it.

The weird thing is that I've been using PT's with my computer for seven months without a problem, so I don't know why it's suddenly decided to start frying them.

I have an older computer, a Dell Dimension 3000. Are they prone to usb port failure? I think it's fairly old in computer years... a dinosaur, maybe.

 

[v1John]

In other words, I think that the LR cartomizers (the ones with low resistance) are almost meant to be used on the 3.7 volt V4L batteries.

I think the idea of making the PT was to allow 5 volts, but it was almost meant for people to use the higher resistance cartomizers, not the LR cartomizers.

Older computers may not even have USB2.0

 

[VapingRulz]

I was vaping a WOW cartomizer both times when the PT went up in smoke. Are you saying that I can probably safely vape a regular carto with my sole remaining PT - but no premium or WOW cartos?

 

[MikeyB]

I still say that if you had no issue prior to this and you have used the same setup and carto new/old then it would be withing the usb setup.

So I went ahead and looked up your PC, if the link below is it then this is what I can tell...
support.dell.com/support/edocs/SYSTEMS/dim3000/en/SM/specs.htm

USB2.0 (2 front - 4 back)
250w power supply - fixed-voltage power supply — 100 to 120 V at 60 Hz; 200 to 240 V at 50 Hz

USB2.0 all around, this means that no matter what one you use it is the same amount of power going to any of them, so the one persons higher/low usb power is out of the question.

The power supply is plenty enough to support a PT, actually if anything it would be to low, not to high to over power it.

It seems like the ports on your computer should have a surge protector on them, meaning that even if it tried to pull to much power the USBs would shut off to protect the internal PC. (by seems, I mean that companies release the same computer for 6 months and update them as they release even with the same name/price tag)

SOOO this either mean that either you had really bad luck and both your PTs went out at one time just from being old and over used OR two it is like I said before and some thing with the USB ports is not right, either the wiring, connectors or the built in surge protector on your computer. I would suggest if you were using the front USBs you could try using the back, since they are not considered the same set up/wires (if your PT blows do not blame me) or either getting a newer PC or try to replace the USB port you are using.

 

[MikeyB]

I was vaping a WOW cartomizer both times when the PT went up in smoke. Are you saying that I can probably safely vape a regular carto with my sole remaining PT - but no premium or WOW cartos?

What did you smoke on it for the past 6 months with no probs?

 

[v1John]

I'm confused because the webstore doesn't list the approximate resistance of each, and also the general recommended use.

For example, type1 carto; LR; recommended for 4 volts or less
. . . . . . . . . type2 carto; ~3 ohm recommended for such and such
. . . . . . . . . type3 carto; ~3+ ohm recommended for such and such or maybe 5v PTs

Many suppliers have already done that, and their webstores reflect it. Many of the 3 piece ecig atomizers now have a popular designation of LR, HV, etc. Something similar could also apply to 3 or more major types of cartomizers, I would hope.

 

[Adrenalynn]

The power supply is plenty enough to support a PT, actually if anything it would be to low, not to high to over power it.

No. No. No.

The power supply in the computer can be 1,000,000,000,000,000 watts. Or even AMPS. You could have a breeder-reactor built into an enormous case. The power supply could be infinite. It has _nothing_ to do with the amount of current that can be sourced over USB. Period. The USB specifications define the available current, and the USB chipset delivers at least that much current, but never exceeding the rating of the traces and ultimately USB plug itself.

And you can't "over power" it. As I noted before: A device will source the current it sources. If the available power is higher - all's good. If the available power is lower - you over heat the power supply. This is what fuses and fuseable links, and circuit breakers, and other circuit protection devices are FOR.

Over VOLTAGE is an entirely different case. And that comes into play when the power supply and/or voltage regulation is failing at the PC side of the equation. That's rare since there is so much very precise regulation happening on the PC and it is so important to its continued well-being. (Even a few tenths of a volt on the lower voltage rails can spell the end of the PC ever functioning again).



I know you're trying to help - but all it does is muddy the waters.

Devices don't necessarily fail instantly after having been overstressed. Frequently a failure condition (or even catastrophic failure) finally arises after a long period of fault. This is, in fact, generally the case.

 

[jdvorr]

I love to see Addy in her element!

 

[Adrenalynn]

Meh - probably came out a bit harsher than it could have. Shouldn't reply on the road when rushed. (like right now, really should be in bed for an early meeting then loooooong trip home. 11hr drive ahead of me tomorrow afternoon)

 

[Maconi]

I've actually been having trouble with my PT.

I bought a PT and a USB-to-Car Adapter (both from the V4L website) but the PT won't work with the adapter. The LED on the adapter dims when I press the button (manual PT) but I get basically 0 vapor from it.

However if I hook it up to a PC it works just fine (and the PC is USB 1.0 even).

I bought another car adapter and it didn't work either.

Before you say it's my car, I went out and bought a USB-to-Wall adapter and it doesn't work with that either (5v 1A).

Should I return the PT or am I just overlooking something simple here?

 

[Adrenalynn]

1A is under-powered, especially with premiums cartomizers. You need 2A or more.

The Eagle flew over Rhode Island


E= Voltage
R= Resistance
I= Power (amperage)

Some of the "premium" cartomizers are in the 2.8Ohm range when cold.
PT's Voltage is 5v

Solve for I:
I = E/R

I = 5/2.8

I ~= 1.79 Amps

That's simplistic, wire resistance changes with heat, but it's illustrative.