Utah bill (HB 112) by Paul Ray would ban the manufacture and sale of all e-cigs that don’t contain pharmaceutical grade nicotine, require license to m

[Bramble]

The advertising clause inserted into the bill is actually a near mirror image of the current FDA regulations on advertising of e-cigarettes. While we all disagree with it, we simply cannot make cessation claims legally already.

I'm very confused why Ray keeps wasting everyone's time and tax money proposing laws that already exist.

I'm reading the article on the Trib site and all these people are like, "Yeah we need a law against selling these to minors."

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

I'm very confused why Ray keeps wasting everyone's time and tax money proposing laws that already exist.

The Bismark ND public library is having a public meeting to address a proposed change to its code of conduct that will prohibit vaping. Of course indoor vaping in public spaces is already prohibited under Bismark's clean air act. And under ND's.

Go figure.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

The Bismark ND public library is having a public meeting to address a proposed change to its code of conduct that will prohibit vaping. Of course indoor vaping in public spaces is already prohibited under Bismark's clean air act. And under ND's.

Go figure.

Justifying their existence?

 

[Bill Godshall]

I also urge ALL Utah vapers and vendors (and e-cig companies that market products in Utah) to contact Utah legislators (as listed at) Utah Call to Action

But instead of saying anything nice about HB 112 or Paul Ray, I urge folks to tell Utah legislators to reject HB 112 because:

- it's "Back Door" prohibition of e-cigs,

- it would ban all e-cig manufacturers in Utah,

- it would ban all e-cig retailers in Utah,

- it would ban all e-cig sales to Utah adults,

- it would create a totally unregulated black market for e-cigs in Utah,

- it would protect/preserve cigarette sales and profits,

- it would encourage some/many vapers to switch back to lethal cigarettes,

- it would encourage Utah smokers to keep smoking, get sick and die,

- it is likely to face Constitutional challenges for violating the interstate commerce clause,

- its an unfunded mandate on the Utah Health Dept,

- Paul Ray has been lying about e-cigs since 2009 when he first tried to ban them, and

- Paul Ray has been deceitfully claiming HB 112 is intended to protect youth.



Endorsing (or saying anything nice about) anything in HB 112 (e.g. licensing of e-cig manufacturers and retailers) will only help Paul Ray 's efforts to enact HB 112.


The reason why Utah youth have reported higher rates of "past 30 use" of an e-cig than elsewhere in the nation is because the Utah Health Dept and other e-cig prohibitionists in Utah have been actively encouraging Utah youth to begin using e-cigs (by generating dozens of news stories about youth e-cig use, and by conducting "e-cig awareness programs" in virtually every high school (and maybe middle school) in Utah.

The most effective way to encourage youth to use e-cigs is by showing e-cigs to youth and then telling them to not use e-cigs (which is what the Utah Health Dept and other e-cig prohibitionists have been doing since 2009 in Utah).

While I don't think the prohibitionists in Utah are intentionally trying to increase youth use of e-cigs, their four year campaign to confuse, scare and discourage kids from using e-cigs has only encouraged Utah youth to use e-cigs (just as I predicted would occur back in 2009 and 2010).

That's also why I've repeatedly criticized and condemned tobacco industry sponsored compaigns to educate and warn youth about tobacco use (as paternalistic tobacco awareness and education programs just encourage youth to use tobacco).

 

[Bramble]

I also urge ALL Utah vapers and vendors (and e-cig companies that market products in Utah) to contact Utah legislators (as listed at) Utah Call to Action

[...]



Endorsing (or saying anything nice about) anything in HB 112 (e.g. licensing of e-cig manufacturers and retailers) will only help Paul Ray 's efforts to enact HB 112.

All of the above.

In their tearful cries about The Children™, they are deceitfully acting as if there isn't already an age ban (we've had one for four years).

No one is addressing the fact that the existing age ban is being flouted, and generally it seems by parents of The Children™ who are already smoking.

No one is telling us how many of The Children™ are actually getting eCigs online (as opposed to from their parents and older people or by using fake ID).

No one is questioning how the proposed standards for eJuice will help Keep It Out Of The Hands Of™ The Children™.

 

[JustJulie]

CASAA has updated its Utah Call to Action to call for vapers to OPPOSE HB 112: CASAA: Call to Action! Utah Online Sales Ban (Effectively Would Make It Illegal for Utah Residents to Purchase Online)

 

[MixMaster29]

The bill is going back for numerous revisions as an output from my meeting with the bill sponsor on Monday afternoon. I can tell you that USP grade nicotine (not pharmaceutical) IS remaining in the bill and IS supported by the statewide industry. USP grade Nicotine is considered best practice by AEMSA and ensures that the quality of ingredients is proper for a consumable product. We find it irresponsible to not use the best available quality however not all liquid manufactures share in this opinion. The requirement will apply to ALL liquids sold in the state thus applies to liquid manufactured across the country (and around the world) that wish to distribute through Utah retail channels. This is not specific to e-cig specialty shops and will apply equally to all forms of refillable liquids. This will be checked through the validation of paperwork that all retailers will need to keep on hand from their e-liquid suppliers that provides the COA of the nicotine. I'm not seeing how this is a bad thing Bill?

As far as the licensing goes, this also is supported by the statewide industry and follows suit with existing laws already on the books for tobacco outlets and liquor stores. In Utah, we have explosive growth of youth usage in comparison to the rest of the country and the licensing is a control mechanism to try and combat this. The license allows the authorities to perform underage stings and issue penalties (up to and including revocation) if the shops are caught selling to underage youth. The cost of the license is minuscule and additional language is being included which will exempt ecgis from the current taxation on tobacco products.

Ultimately, we believe that smart & sensible regulation is a good thing and will help to further the work we are all ultimately trying to do - that is harm reduction. Without certain regulations in place, we will always be faced with the "we don't know what's in it" argument because generally speaking the public and certainly the health care organizations do not put faith in self-regulation. The day of asking people to simply trust us has long passed I'm afraid and we need to resign to the fact that regulation WILL happen and frankly from what I have personally seen, regulation IS needed before someone is affected by irresponsible actions.

The only part of his bill that is not supported is the online sales ban. This is one area he stood his ground on and refused to modify or remove. He did state that if we can get someone to propose an amendment on the house floor to allow for age verification via common carrier services he would accept that, however would not include it himself. This is one area he is being pushed hard on from the health care side and I suspect he actually does support the common carrier but is politically tied to the current language. We are already working back channels to get this amendment proposal set up and ready to roll and will find a way to get the message out loud and clear.

~Aaron

i was curious to what laws and regulations will go into affect for those who mix juice. i have a friend who owns a e liquid company who has exploded in utah, what should he be aware of as of right now to protect his company, he has built it from nothing and wants to follow regulations when they come out. what could i tell him on regards to what is going to pass on the floor.

thanks for your time and input!

 

[afrazier5]

MixMaster - have him get in touch with me directly. If it's Phoenix, I've already been in touch and will be spending time after the legislative session to work with them.

 

[Rusty Shakelford]

I only shop online and I live in salt lake. The stores out here are horribly overpriced and the juice is not that good. I'll leave the state before I get ripped off.

 

[Rusty Shakelford]

I'll keep shopping online. Let them try and pull this off, but if your smart, Utah's feeble laws are no match. Just like when I was smoking; I ordered my tobacco from the east coast.

 

[afrazier5]

Just a quick update. I just found that Rep. Ray has released a 3rd substitute to HB112 tonight.
Full text: http://le.utah.gov/~2014/bills/hbillint/HB0112S03.pdf
Comparison: http://le.utah.gov/~2014/bills/hbillint/HB0112S03_ComparedWith_HB0112S02.pdf

I’m in the process of going through everything now but won’t get a chance to get through it all until sometime on Thursday. Please note that it is possible the bill will also be read on the floor on Thursday depending on the speed of debates on the bills in front of it. If you can, make sure you tune into the live house floor debate starting at 10am or keep an eye on the Reading Calendar for the progression of bills.

 

[afrazier5]

I only shop online and I live in salt lake. The stores out here are horribly overpriced and the juice is not that good. I'll leave the state before I get ripped off.

I disagree. While it's true you can find good deals online, our 25+ shops are all fair with pricing of a standard B&M location nearly anywhere in the country. Keep in mind as well that only about 5-6 of the shops make their own juice and of those, I've never had a bad tasting one unless it's just a flavor I don't prefer. But taste is very subjective anyway...

 

[Rusty Shakelford]

Electronic stix is a horribly run business who modified their reviews to make themselves feel better about their unprofessional way of doing things. Well they can't modify their google reviews I suggest you check them out there. Been to another which was much more professional forgot the name but they too were way overpriced. Name one reasonably priced, professional store in salt lake??????????

I disagree. While it's true you can find good deals online, our 25+ shops are all fair with pricing of a standard B&M location nearly anywhere in the country. Keep in mind as well that only about 5-6 of the shops make their own juice and of those, I've never had a bad tasting one unless it's just a flavor I don't prefer. But taste is very subjective anyway...

 

[Rusty Shakelford]

I disagree. While it's true you can find good deals online, our 25+ shops are all fair with pricing of a standard B&M location nearly anywhere in the country. Keep in mind as well that only about 5-6 of the shops make their own juice and of those, I've never had a bad tasting one unless it's just a flavor I don't prefer. But taste is very subjective anyway...

You just want more business! Your not looking out for the person.

 

[afrazier5]

You just want more business! Your not looking out for the person.

I don't run a business Rusty - check out Utah Vapers - Vendors for a list of all certified retailers in town. I've personally purchased from several of them and their prices are more or less aligned with one another. Again, an online only retailer will be cheaper than a B&M since they don't have the overhead costs of building insurance, leases, large staff, utilities, etc. I'm not going to compare one against another as that would be unethical in my role but with over 25 in the area, you have a large selection to choose from.

 

[Fearalis]

I don't run a business Rusty - check out Utah Vapers - Vendors for a list of all certified retailers in town. I've personally purchased from several of them and their prices are more or less aligned with one another. Again, an online only retailer will be cheaper than a B&M since they don't have the overhead costs of building insurance, leases, large staff, utilities, etc. I'm not going to compare one against another as that would be unethical in my role but with over 25 in the area, you have a large selection to choose from.

Now that's out of the way lets get back to the legislation. What's the update on it? Is it going into effect July 1st? Will I be able to order and ship to Idaho or insert state here and then pick it up myself or have someone send it to me? To be honest I liked when Ecigs were underground. B&M shops aren't appealing to me anymore. They are now full blown businesses with business ethics instead of almost coffee shops where you'd kick it with people you knew. I was going to get into DIY and building my own coils but it seems i've jumped into that a little bit late. Seems I should have done it 3 years ago.

Edit: Can B&Ms sell 100mg nic to consumers who know what they are doing?

 

[Reason]

Can someone tell me if the bill that passed the house had right changes. Reading through it it looks like it does

 

[Sikko]

They gutted the part about requiring certain "standards" in e-liquid, and basically took that control away from the Health Department. Require signature verification for internet sales. That's all I really caught. Trying to read this stuff is confusing as hell, hopefully someone from CASAA or Utah Vapers will come by and give us the short list. One thing I noticed that was still in there was "accessories". Which seems to be undefined. Could apply to anything used by Vapers, I'd like to see that out of there too.

Bill Moves on to the Senate now. Still time to have things changed if we need to just going to be more difficult.

Any Utah vapers, especially those in Clearfield, Sunset area should keep an eye on this page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Defeat-Paul-Ray-Political-Action-Page/363186063796455. I don't personally have anything to do with it, but I think it's the right idea.

 

[Reason]

Thank Sikko, I think it also strikes that e-cigs isn't smoking. Am I right ?

 

[Sikko]

As far as the clean air act goes, I don't believe it had anything to do with where you can and can't vape. Still illegal to vape inside public buildings as far as I know.