V4L vs Joye 510!

[AlexTM]

The 510 sounds like a nightmare. I can't figure out why so many people love it. A longer battery life would solve only one of the frequently-cited problems. There's also the small carts that need constant refilling, the problem with mouthfuls of juice (yech!) and the filling in the cart that so many users need to mod to make it work.

If you could address all of those issues, I'd probably buy one. Then again, the VK doesn't have any of those problems and I already have that one!

Funny that you should say that. Because I got a KR8 yesterday, and already had all of those problems. Took me longer to get them together on a 510, and then I was a complete vaping noob.

KR8 carts are slightly larger, but a PITA to refill, uncomfortable, and expensive.

..that being said if it were me I would NOT carry the 510...there are so many other suppliers carrying them that I just don't see it being real profitable..and as someone else put here's where you have to choose to specialize or not...

Well, yes, maybe - although I'd say its exactly the other way around. If I find a store that only carries some exotic thingy that is not compatible to anything I own, why would I bother to ever set foot in it? Maybe for liquid, but if I have to order anyway to get the hardware, because that store is obviously crap, I sure am very much inclinde to get my software elsewhere, too.

510 and a cool branding sound a much, much better idea than some incompatible junk. (And if is something incompatible it is junk by definition.) More profitable in the long run, too.

 

[Drozd]

Well, yes, maybe - although I'd say its exactly the other way around. If I find a store that only carries some exotic thingy that is not compatible to anything I own, why would I bother to ever set foot in it? Maybe for liquid, but if I have to order anyway to get the hardware, because that store is obviously crap, I sure am very much inclinde to get my software elsewhere, too.

510 and a cool branding sound a much, much better idea than some incompatible junk. (And if is something incompatible it is junk by definition.) More profitable in the long run, too.

Well that's a little extreme...by your logic..if your chosen model was say an m4xx then anyplace that didn't sell it specifically would be crap and the 510 you would consider exotic and junk?
Besides I think you're missing my point...they've been doing KR8 the entire time just kr8 and because of such they know their stuff in a market where there are so many models rebranded and cloned that I see specialization as a good thing..not to mention that just about everyone seems to carry the 510..onve you pay for it to be specifically branded for your company you gotta charge more per unit for that...and profitability comes into question when people know that they can get a plain kit for $35..it's harder to grab a piece of that market..now if I were running a shop and I had to chose between a model thats downright criminalzed for it's short battery life or a model that uses the same atty but has a battery that lasts upwards of 7+ hours, has no drop off in performance during that batery charge, and because of another basic feature improves the vapor on the same atty, can be converted to what I'm already known for with a $3 adapter, and is only currently sold in 2 places but available OEM to me so the market is wide open on it right now...well that's just an easy choice..I for one would rather position myself to lead the market not just follow it..

 

[VapingRulz]

KR8 carts are slightly larger, but a PITA to refill, uncomfortable, and expensive.

They're more than slightly larger, they're very easy to refill, they are inexpensive in comparison to the 510's atty+cart pieces, and I have no idea why you say they're "uncomfortable." I'm almost afraid to ask how that's possible.

 

[Scottbee]

.....and I have no idea why you say they're "uncomfortable." I'm almost afraid to ask how that's possible.

If you like flat tipped or whistle tip cartridges you will probably find the KR808D-1 cartomizers to be uncomfortable.

I personally pop the white cap off and put on a cut-down 901 whistle tip. Makes it quicker/easier to refill also.

 

[Drozd]

They're more than slightly larger, they're very easy to refill, they are inexpensive in comparison to the 510's atty+cart pieces, and I have no idea why you say they're "uncomfortable." I'm almost afraid to ask how that's possible.

Playing devil's advocate here..you say they are inexpensive compared to the 510 atty and carts..hmm my attys have a 6month warranty for $15, and carts are 3.50 for 5 and last pretty much forever..so lets call it the same price equivalent of 10 cartos at $10 for 5...figuring 20 refills per carto before they're shot and out of service thats 200 fills..given 2 cartos per day average thats 100 days or 3 1/3 months..so really the 510 atty+ cart is cheaper..but I'm willing to call it a draw on which is cheaper if you are..

I get it it's an emotional subject for a lot of people with intense loyalty to the company and their chosen PV...so much that they'll claim inaccuracies all over the place..but fact of the matter is that the 510 is the most popular and widely used PV..the KR8 is second..V4L has specialized in the KR8..from a business perspective you gotta kinda want to have a piece of that #1 seller..and if it carried the V4L warranty as well it'd do well...but fighting for market share in an already saturated market..now if you picked up an improved variation of that #1 model that very few offer and then put the same warranty and customer service you're known for on that and make it compatable with what you're already specialized in...it's gonna be a freaking home run..

 

[Adrenalynn]

>> last pretty much forever

^--- extrapolated from what data? Can I see the elemental testing that delivered something approaching an infinite lifespan please? Raw data only need apply.

>> act of the matter is that the 510 is the most popular and widely used PV

^--- Since it's a fact, you'll be sharing the raw data of the multiple studies that have determined that, correct?

 

[AlexTM]

Well that's a little extreme...by your logic..if your chosen model was say an m4xx then anyplace that didn't sell it specifically would be crap and the 510 you would consider exotic and junk?

I was speaking about the "specialisation", not a particular type. In the posting I quoted it seemed to be implied that selling anything that lots of other stores carry is a bad idea, and I very much disagree with that. If a shop only has one type, or maybe two, which hardly anybody else sells, that is a recipe for long-term desaster. Because all those people who have the more common models won't come there. Not to mention that popular types are usually popular for a reason.

They're more than slightly larger, they're very easy to refill, they are inexpensive in comparison to the 510's atty+cart pieces, and I have no idea why you say they're "uncomfortable." I'm almost afraid to ask how that's possible.

Actually, it's 1ml vs. 0.6ml, exactly how significant people find that is up to them. I don't mind refilling my 510, but I admitt, larger cart would be nice. (And I am not talking about expensive atties with thoroughly overpriced carts.) People who claim that KR8s are easier to refill than 510/901 (except with the whistle tip, and that has other disadvanages) obviously have either never refilled a 510/901 or – how shall I put that? – doubtlessly have reasons of their own for telling something that is just not quite correct. Sorry, I've tried now, so forget about trying so sell me that "easier to refill"-crap any further. Somebody already calculated the costs, I'd also say probably slightly more expensive, but insignificantly so. And yes, I do find large round metal with paper around it more uncomfortable to hold between my teeth than smaller flat tips or soft(er) round ones of the same size.
I'm testing my KR8 and will for a bit more, but so far, I am quite underwhelmed. Review will follow, maybe even with a vid.

 

[keyzygirl]

It didnt turn into one,it began as one.to answer the question you edited alex.

 

[Adrenalynn]

See - I find the 510's to be absolute junk. Not worth the effort to toss them in the trash can. With any luck they'll migrate off the desk and fall behind the safe where they can be ignored without the effort required to pitch them in the trash receptacle.

 

[callofthevapor]

Now am I right on how this is playing out? AlexTM who showed nothing but disdain for the Kr8 now has one and he hates it. Well darn I'm shocked at that, never seen that one coming.

 

[Drozd]

>> last pretty much forever

^--- extrapolated from what data? Can I see the elemental testing that delivered something approaching an infinite lifespan please? Raw data only need apply.Extrapolated from just plain design standpoint...maybe I shouldn't use the word forever since apparently we're going to be literal here..more like liken it to the silicone ring and plastic end piece on the carto..eventually they might become a little loose in both cases but not significant enough to give them a lifespan to factor them as being expensive

>> act of the matter is that the 510 is the most popular and widely used PV

^--- Since it's a fact, you'll be sharing the raw data of the multiple studies that have determined that, correct?

Sure all the polls on most popular models used by members here are right here on the boards http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/13928-primary-device-preferences.html
as well as references made to that fact in http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...strated-guide-e-cigs-parts-1-through-6-a.html

 

[Drozd]

Wow, I'm surprised at how this is all playing out.. Steve asked if he should carry a 510..I honestly answered that if I were him, I wouldn't carry the 510, because of the saturated market...better off carrying the KR8 that V4L has specialized in for so long...
But if he were seriously considering carrying a 510 type model that he should look at the new eGo model which by all reviews leaves the 510 in the dust (even though it's a 510 atomizer at it's heart) and with the use of a cheaply obtained adapter be used with the cartomizers which some reviewers have said that it improves the performance of as well...
Hmm longer lasting battery (650 mAh) that reviewers are reporting has no drop off (or so negligeable that it isn't noticed) in performance from start to finish and with a cheaply obtained adapter or not can use the 2 most popular stock models on the market currently...and that the market is still wide open on...sounds like it's be a good idea..
I certainly didn't expect to be jumped on and attacked from both sides of the aisle...I don't understand the mentality of "I love V4L so much that I must hate everything 510"...nor vice versa...nor the emotions that produce inaccurate statements on either side...this one or that one is cheaper, refilling on this one or that one is easier...this qualifies as fiddling but what I'm doing doesn't..a lot of the arguments are just BS..

 

[Adrenalynn]

[edit] [not worth it]

 

[keyzygirl]

All that matters is that we are NOT smoking,use whatever you choose.The only thing I wonder about is why would you want Steve to sell a Janty product when he is working on his own modified battery?Its all good though,dont get upset over it.To each his own.

 

[Drozd]

All that matters is that we are NOT smoking,use whatever you choose.The only thing I wonder about is why would you want Steve to sell a Janty product when he is working on his own modified battery?Its all good though,dont get upset over it.To each his own.

I'm not saying that I want him to sell it..what I was saying is that he said he was kicking around the idea of a V4L 510 which the market is horribly flooded with...what I suggested is that instead he look at the eGo as janty released it OEM so other companies can rebrand it and sell it as their own, TW did as the Tornado as of today I believe..
It's available now and with a cheap adapter can be used as a Carto unit too..
Now I don't know when the VK1 will be available..but if he's looking to expand into other models instead of staying specialized...thats available now (is a 510 but isn't a 510)...and should be looked at as a way to go as right now only 2 companies offer it...so if he had a V4L version and slapped the V4L warranty on it as well...it could possibly be very very successful..

 

[Scottbee]

The eGo/Tornado with a cartomizer adapter and a carto is certainly an interesting PV (he says as he takes another hit off of his.... )

 

[SMILIN]

The real reason I have been thinking about the 510 is that I get way too may customers who are buying an overpriced "vapor king" 510 from another company who is messing with my brand8-o

I know, if I do something, I stand behind it, warrantee it properly. and care to help my V4L family

Thanks

Steve

 

[Drozd]

The eGo/Tornado with a cartomizer adapter and a carto is certainly an interesting PV (he says as he takes another hit off of his.... )

Ah you got yours...cool...I'll be looking elsewhere for your take on it as well..a family member just bought me one today which I'm looking forward to though I did not get the Tornado I just won't deal with "that" company..

 

[Drozd]

The real reason I have been thinking about the 510 is that I get way too may customers who are buying an overpriced "vapor king" 510 from another company who is messing with my brand8-o

I know, if I do something, I stand behind it, warrantee it properly. and care to help my V4L family

Thanks

Steve

kinda figured it had to do with all the stuff being called vapor king these days..be it the company vaporkings, or electronic cigarettes inc that have a vapor king model or one of the other 2-3 other companies that have a "vapor King" that I've seen..but seriously though I prefer my 510..I wouldn't get into the 510 market as it is...if tossing it around I'd go bigger and badder than a standard 510..

 

[keyzygirl]

I'm not saying that I want him to sell it..what I was saying is that he said he was kicking around the idea of a V4L 510 which the market is horribly flooded with...what I suggested is that instead he look at the eGo as janty released it OEM so other companies can rebrand it and sell it as their own, TW did as the Tornado as of today I believe..
It's available now and with a cheap adapter can be used as a Carto unit too..
Now I don't know when the VK1 will be available..but if he's looking to expand into other models instead of staying specialized...thats available now (is a 510 but isn't a 510)...and should be looked at as a way to go as right now only 2 companies offer it...so if he had a V4L version and slapped the V4L warranty on it as well...it could possibly be very very successful..

I was just asking,just being nosy.