V4L vs Joye 510!

[Belletrist]

i can understand why people prefer mods. when it comes to the 510 (which i have not used, but i'll explain why) the only thing i've heard convincingly often is that it produces more vapor. i like vapor. but i am more than satisfied with the vapor i get from the VK. you can drip with a VK (am doing so and have been all day, because it's convenient when i'm sitting here working) but when you don't want to (which i don't if i'm not working) then... you have cartomizers.

i'm utterly confused about all this burning plastic cart. don't vape empty carts, ppl.

 

[keyzygirl]

The real reason I have been thinking about the 510 is that I get way too may customers who are buying an overpriced "vapor king" 510 from another company who is messing with my brand8-o

I know, if I do something, I stand behind it, warrantee it properly. and care to help my V4L family

Thanks

Steve

On the ECF today 2 people told me V4L was out of Vaporking starter kits!!So I see what your saying!!

 

[Drozd]

I was just asking,just being nosy.

Lol, that's cool..
As a smoker I was all about the different experiences be it cigs, pipes, cigars, or hookah..
I guess I look at PVs the same way...there are different vapor experiences from different models and as long as they're doing the job of keeping ya off the analogs...
What I was getting at is that the eGo is a suped up 510 and for me I fully expect it to replace the 510 kinda like a next gen thing..
Kinda expect the same when the VK1 makes it's debut as far as the KR8 goes..if it has a bunch of features that make it far superior to the basic KR8..outside of financial concerns if you had to choose one or the other why would you go stock over the same thing with all the bells and whistles...and you know that once it has it's debut, you know there will be a race for someone to try and clone it...part of the reason to keep it under wraps until it's close to debut...
in this case the designing company said here it is go ahead and copy it and call it your own...and if I were trying to break into an area of the market I wasn't previously in I'd want to put out the newest best model instead of the old one..

 

[Drozd]

i can understand why people prefer mods. when it comes to the 510 (which i have not used, but i'll explain why) the only thing i've heard convincingly often is that it produces more vapor. i like vapor. but i am more than satisfied with the vapor i get from the VK. you can drip with a VK (am doing so and have been all day, because it's convenient when i'm sitting here working) but when you don't want to (which i don't if i'm not working) then... you have cartomizers.

i'm utterly confused about all this burning plastic cart. don't vape empty carts, ppl.

Changes the taste too...cartos on a mod too depending on the mod would vape like on a PT without it being on an actual PT (at 5V)..
But most of them are fairly large battery holders..

 

[Belletrist]

yeah, that's why a mod was appealing to me. *pets PT* i love this thing.

...but now, steve's got us all on the hook with this new battery. tsk tsk.

 

[AlexTM]

It didnt turn into one,it began as one.to answer the question you edited alex.

Yes, most embarassing. 8-o Somehow I had forgotten the title over the debate. Noticed the moment I sent it.

Now am I right on how this is playing out? AlexTM who showed nothing but disdain for the Kr8 now has one and he hates it. Well darn I'm shocked at that, never seen that one coming.

Let me explain (not that you are interested, but maybe some readers are): First thing I see about KR8s are pictures of burned plastic and "That's the thing the Americans over at ECF are so thrilled about!" Not exactly a recommendation (the burned plastic, not the enthusiasm). I get over here myself (not because of the KR8), and find people hyping that thing like it's the best thing since the invention of the wheel. Not only that, they get pretty nasty if somebody disagrees. The later decidedly not being a recommendation.
I try to find out what I can, and I am still everything but convinced. So I decide to actually spend money (which is quite short here) and find out for myself. And now that I do find out that well, on the whole, I am still underwhelmed, you think you need to whine? I've always been open and honest. People who hype KR8s as "easy to refill" and other crap are decidedly not honest.

And, let me tell you something else: If I could get a decive that consistantly delivers the flavour a KR8 delivers for the first three puffs, I'd throw out my 510s. Most unfortunately, and just in addition to all other disadvantages of a KR8, with the 4th puff (quite consistently) that thing starts to become uncomfortably hot. And three puffs every 10 minutes or so which the KR8 needs to cool down is decidedly not worth it.

So, yes, I did start out that test (which I do not feel I have finished yet - but unless something gets seriously better, the results won't change much from my current opinion) being highly suspicious. And yes, I like my 510. But I actually checked, and at least I stick to the facts, which is more than I can say for some other people. But then, who knows why some people hype the KR8s so much … and I don't like hype, either. Some people may have guess that already.

 

[Taryn]

Yes, most embarassing. 8-o Somehow I had forgotten the title over the debate. Noticed the moment I sent it.



Let me explain (not that you are interested, but maybe some readers are): First thing I see about KR8s are pictures of burned plastic and "That's the thing the Americans over at ECF are so thrilled about!" Not exactly a recommendation (the burned plastic, not the enthusiasm). I get over here myself (not because of the KR8), and find people hyping that thing like it's the best thing since the invention of the wheel. Not only that, they get pretty nasty if somebody disagrees. The later decidedly not being a recommendation.
I try to find out what I can, and I am still everything but convinced. So I decide to actually spend money (which is quite short here) and find out for myself. And now that I do find out that well, on the whole, I am still underwhelmed, you think you need to whine? I've always been open and honest. People who hype KR8s as "easy to refill" and other crap are decidedly not honest.

And, let me tell you something else: If I could get a decive that consistantly delivers the flavour a KR8 delivers for the first three puffs, I'd throw out my 510s. Most unfortunately, and just in addition to all other disadvantages of a KR8, with the 4th puff (quite consistently) that thing starts to become uncomfortably hot. And three puffs every 10 minutes or so which the KR8 needs to cool down is decidedly not worth it.

So, yes, I did start out that test (which I do not feel I have finished yet - but unless something gets seriously better, the results won't change much from my current opinion) being highly suspicious. And yes, I like my 510. But I actually checked, and at least I stick to the facts, which is more than I can say for some other people. But then, who knows why some people hype the KR8s so much … and I don't like hype, either. Some people may have guess that already.

Addressing the highlighted quotes in order:

I've honestly seen as much if not more attacks on KR8's, more specifically V4L, than I have seen the other way around. We even get those lovely people who come into this subforum just to stir up trouble. I don't see that when I've looked in 510 suppliers subforums. Nor have I seen V4L users who openly bash other people's choices in vaping style in their signature line. I'm a very happy easy going person but I certainly can be driven to being snippy or defensive considering this nearly daily occurrence.

I vape two cartomizers a day and it takes approximately one minute each to refill while I watch TV in the evenings. Add an extra minute if its time to wash out the cartomizer. It is not difficult from what I see and I resent that you are calling me dishonest for saying so.

Three puffs per ten minutes is a bit of an exaggeration in my opinion, I personally take quite a few more than that when I'm in a vape happy mood. I'd say it's more like two puffs a minute before heat is an issue for me to solve that I will often keep one cartomizer going on my PT and one on my battery, if I am away from my computer it only takes seconds to screw on another cartomizer and let the first one cool.

I posted this after trying a 510 and comparing it as the original post said. I found the 510 to be quite lacking myself. And I have stuck to the facts.

I started this thread because when I first found this forum and started reading up on ecigs I was torn between a 510 and a KR8. I stand by my original statement, I choose right ecig for me the first time with V4L and their Vapor King. Your choice may be different and that's cool. Happy Vapes to all of us!

 

[Adrenalynn]

>> People who hype KR8s as "easy to refill" and other crap are decidedly not honest.

I can disassemble, fill, and reassemble the device in less than ten seconds. I can do it in just over three seconds for the "direct drippers" that would compare. Maybe it's because I have mad dexterity? [shrug] It's trivially easy. Anyone thinking it's difficult really needs to be put some place where they're safe from all the difficult things in life, like tying their shoes, or breathing while talking...

Those who say it's difficult have a decided agenda.

I don't have to cool down any KR8. You're pulling too hard. Settle down. I chain-vape-and-pace with a single XL battery while on the phone. I vape so much that I kill it in two to three hours of phone work, especially when VOIP to China every night. I've not had to cool it down on any 3hr frustrating phone call of chain vaping, we're talking 9 seconds on, < 10 seconds off, continuously.

You can make things fool-proof, but you can't make them d@mned-fool proof.

 

[Taryn]

One more note, I would like to correct my above statement of taking two vapes a minute and having no issues. I sat here with a stopwatch and took one of my big long slow vapes every ten seconds for two minutes. Warm but not hot. I would go on but that is a lot of nicotine for me! I've never tried to chain vape it that way and I used my PT which heats the cartomizer far faster than the battery.

I've never vaped this way before but I don't see an issue, I'm more of a take eight or ten vapes then put it down for a while kind of girl. Thus I'd take a few vapes from one cartomizer then a few vapes from the other to fit my style.

 

[keyzygirl]

I just wonder why people who dont like our PV feel the need to come here and tell us.Ive tried alot of different PVs and feel no need to go to the other subforums and tell them how awful they are.I dont get why you feel a need to do that.We dont have to like the 510,we dont use it.V4L is our well informed choice,You cant change that.Its all good!

 

[callofthevapor]

I just wonder why people who dont like our PV feel the need to come here and tell us.Ive tried alot of different PVs and feel no need to go to the other subforums and tell them how awful they are.I dont get why you feel a need to do that.We dont have to like the 510,we dont use it.V4L is our well informed choice,You cant change that.Its all good!

I don't get it either. I cut down going to other forums because of the same thing. What's really frustrating to me is I would like to try other equipment. Money is a big issue to me so I have to be careful on what I spend it on. That kind of attacks on the Kr8 frankly turns me off on any thing that person uses.

 

[VapingRulz]

Playing devil's advocate here..you say they are inexpensive compared to the 510 atty and carts..hmm my attys have a 6month warranty for $15, and carts are 3.50 for 5 and last pretty much forever..

If I had a nickle for every time I've read about a 510 atty crapping out after hours-days-weeks, I'd be a very rich woman. The problem with your logic is that it assumes the atty's will a) last six months and b) be replaced under warranty without additional costs. From what I've read, that's not the norm. And comparing the shorty battery to the 510 is a bit disingenuous as that's the weakest VK battery available. I hate the shorty batteries. I only buy the XL's, which are twice as powerful.

I think it's just too easy to dismiss VK'er opinions and love of the product as "cultish" or some silly variation on that theme. The truth is that I want a cost-effective e-cig that works best with the least fuss. So far, that's the VK. It is definitely not the 510 for the reasons already mentioned.

The 510 may be the most popular e-cig out there - I don't know. I'm pretty sure it's the cheapest in terms of start-up costs, which may account for its popularity amongst newbies who aren't sure about the whole vaping thing and don't want to risk too much money in case it doesn't work.

Are there any stats available yet on how many vapers actually stay exclusively with the 510 for long periods of time? From what I read, it looks like a lot of them move on to other models and mods fairly quickly. I do know that I'm looking for a second model to try because I actually like fussing around with e-juices now - but it won't be the 510 unless/until they fix the shortcomings.

 

[plantlvr]

I agree with everything you said Vapingrulz!

 

[keyzygirl]

I agree with everything you said Vapingrulz!

and I agree with you plantlvr

 

[AlexTM]

I vape two cartomizers a day and it takes approximately one minute each to refill while I watch TV in the evenings. Add an extra minute if its time to wash out the cartomizer. It is not difficult from what I see and I resent that you are calling me dishonest for saying so.

That was about the "easy refill". I really should not post that late and annoyed; 2nd time I mess up in one thread. That should have read "easiER refill", and is usualy compared to refills of 510/901. And that is dishonest, because while one can refill the KR8s without any particular problems, it most certainly is not easier than a 510/901, unless one uses the whistle tip. And even then one has to be more careful.

I don't get it either. I cut down going to other forums because of the same thing. What's really frustrating to me is I would like to try other equipment. Money is a big issue to me so I have to be careful on what I spend it on. That kind of attacks on the Kr8 frankly turns me off on any thing that person uses.

It's funny that you say that - 'cause it's the same here. The way some KR8 fanboys behave is not exactly a recommendation.
And if it had cost more than the 7$ it did cost me to try the KR8, I would certainly not have spend it, either.

If I had a nickle for every time I've read about a 510 atty crapping out after hours-days-weeks, I'd be a very rich woman. The problem with your logic is that it assumes the atty's will a) last six months and b) be replaced under warranty without additional costs. …

Let me give you another calculation: One atty for a 510 costs 7$. So does a pack of 5 KR8 cartomizers. The question then is: Can I refill the 510 more often or less often than the five KR8s? Given that "a dozen times" is stated as a number fairly often, and the smaller capacity of a 510 cart (0.5ml or 0.6ml vs 1ml) and that it is strongly recommended that one does not vape the KR8 dry, that would be between 60 and 120 refills. I think those are easily possible on average.
However, if you calculate the costs per day of vaping, I don't think the difference is particularly significant.

 

[Taryn]

I do agree the KR8 refill is not easier than the 510 you just have to do it less often, the cartomizer holds 1ml of juice. I don't really know how much the 510 holds but I do know it's significantly less.

I also feel the KR8 is slightly more expensive to own/operate but much cheaper than cigarettes for me the convenience and ease of use makes it worth it for me.

 

[Drozd]

If I had a nickle for every time I've read about a 510 atty crapping out after hours-days-weeks, I'd be a very rich woman. The problem with your logic is that it assumes the atty's will a) last six months and b) be replaced under warranty without additional costs. From what I've read, that's not the norm. And comparing the shorty battery to the 510 is a bit disingenuous as that's the weakest VK battery available. I hate the shorty batteries. I only buy the XL's, which are twice as powerful. ok, most of the time you hear about the 510 atty crapping out if you actually dig deeper its A) most likely a newbie with their first high voltage mod or even veteran vapers abusing them on a HV mod B) again some newbie who can't figure out to keep the atty wet or C) cheap attys or cheap clones. So really it usually come down to user error much like someone new to the KR8 destroying a carto because they vaped it too dry. Comparing the shorty battery to the 510 is indeed fair (the only part I can see as disingenuous is maybe from what I'm hearing that the 510 atty runs hotter so it uses more power from that battery so a they will burn through that battery slightly faster) regular 510 and the shorty battery are 180 mAh 510 mega is the same as a VK regular at 280 mAh...as for the XLs I understand the popularity I do...what I was getting at was talking about a battery that is close to a "double" XL but between the length of a regular and an XL true it is wider (about as big around as a AA battery) and that might not be for some

I think it's just too easy to dismiss VK'er opinions and love of the product as "cultish" or some silly variation on that theme. The truth is that I want a cost-effective e-cig that works best with the least fuss. So far, that's the VK. It is definitely not the 510 for the reasons already mentioned. I wasn't saying that your opinion wasn't valid for you..I was pointing out that the generalization that the cartos are cheaper isn't nessicarily true...it's more of a mindset that for some reason to love VK and V4L you must hate the 510, and force it upon everyone else...or vice versa...I have both I don't hate either..I have preferences for different situations..as they are different experiences expecially when trying out different premium juices..there is one I've been trying recently thats a menthol..and vapes good on the 510 but it's a complex flavor and using it on the KR8 you really pick up more of it on that it's more of a vanilla on the inhale and experience the tobacco undertones and menthol midtones on the exhale..jut as an example...But I won't make broad statements about not liking the VK without having tried it first..it'd be fair if you didn't make broad sweeping statements about the 510 if you haven't at least tried it either..either way it comes down to what is effective to each person and keeps them away from the analogs..
I really do believe that somewhere there is a common ground somewhere between alot of us...hell even Adrenalynn and I came to an accord of sorts (about menthol flavors of all things) and I believe that we're probably the most diametrically opposed of all.

The 510 may be the most popular e-cig out there - I don't know. I'm pretty sure it's the cheapest in terms of start-up costs, which may account for its popularity amongst newbies who aren't sure about the whole vaping thing and don't want to risk too much money in case it doesn't work. This is valid, it is cheap quite a bit cheaper than the Vk to start..about half the price if you don't care about warranties..compareable if you do.. my firt 510 kit I didn't care about warranty it's been 2 months now and the attys are just fine (I think those that tinker too much, or put them immediately on HV are really responsible for their premature death but thats just my opinion)

Are there any stats available yet on how many vapers actually stay exclusively with the 510 for long periods of time? From what I read, it looks like a lot of them move on to other models and mods fairly quickly. I do know that I'm looking for a second model to try because I actually like fussing around with e-juices now - but it won't be the 510 unless/until they fix the shortcomings.

true that many of them move on to mods...but really at heart it's often still a 510 atty with a big battery mod that can do HV...and like I was saying I wouldn't suggest V4L carry a 510 either...what I was suggesting is the OEM eGo which at least addresses the battery issue..and it's a model that I can and plan on using as both a 510 and as a cartomizer model...all reviews so far are indicating that it also improves flavor on both as well..and though not out yet the people who came up with the eGo are working on an improvement on the cartridges..it really is the 510 with about 95% of all the issues fixed..but please in no way am I saying choose this over that..it was more of a thats an interesting model to take a look at and if Steve were seriously looking at adding a 510 like model to the V4L stable I don't think that it'd be a poor choice...In a perfect vaping world we'd all have active local social groups that we could go to and try out each others models and sample and share juices..I think it'd be an intereting experiment too in what people are willing to stand behind in real life than just the aninomity of the internet...I know these days when people ask me about PVs I let them try both my 510 and my KR8 (both soon to be replaced by the aforementioned eGo I think, as one set up for 510 and one set up for cartos is way less to carry) and let them draw their own conclusions and give them a card with links to ECF, V4L, the 510 supplier I've used and a couple of juice suppliers that I like..

 

[ALC]

I have officially been called out by a 3-parter, and I am ready to start a new thread in regards to the dissention amongst the ranks that has, as of now, become about picking a side and defending our choices. I am a fairly new vapor and I would like the support of all the cartomizer advocates to join in and help my campaign. I have tried all of the 3-piece models (except the screwdriver and pen series), so I would like to hear opinions from anyone than uses 808s now and has tried these models. In my opinion, Taryn should be the main spokesperson for the 808 campaign. I have only made about 11 posts and I am already being labeled a "2-parter" who thinks that we are the only choice out there. This is soooo untrue and I have responded that I prefer the 808 because I have not found a combo of flavor, battery life, atty (that works no matter what you do), etc. that measures up to the 808. I did not know that people could get so defensive about their e-cigs, but I know now. This is why I believe that it is important to start a thread for everyone that seems to have picked a side and is passionate about their choice to join in and have a good old fashion (clean and not mean) debate.

Is anyone with me or am I alone in this matter?

 

[AlexTM]

Dear me, I don't want by any means curtail your enjoyment, but methinks you might start out with giving good reasons for funny claims, not just "I heard somewhere in the forum" which is what you did elsewhere. Otherwise, I find no reason not to file you with those people who run around and make outragous claims about their KR8, or about every other model out there.

And, frankly, don't you think you are quite ... erm ... maybe overreacting running around into other threads calling everybody for battle? I dunno, maybe it's just my advanced age, or something ...

 

[Adrenalynn]

Man - can't this garbage stay in the rest of ECF? It's the principle reason I won't be caught dead in the rest of the forum. Just one huge spam-fest. [In fairness, Taryn's choice of subject line does kinda work like a big bug-zapper ]