In this video, correspondent Christof Putzel reveals why the viral video of a smoking baby led Vanguard to Indonesia, where "big tobacco" still reigns over a whole new, much younger generation. I recorded this on my DVR a few months ago and just got around to watching it today. It's a bit long but after a few minutes, I am sure that you will want to finish it.
Vanguard's Sex, Lies and Cigarettes (must watch)
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It was exceptionally well done and highlighted a serious issue. However, it also raised other issues. Had he of covered how the Anti-smoking groups were now bullying the alternative eCig folk instead of marching to war where they belong (Indonesia, Mexico, etc), then it might be more interesting to me. It's sick how they can attack us while ignoring the poorest nations who really need their help with educational materials and programs. Sure, he highlighted a small handful of marchers, (kudos to those who are trying their best to educate the uneducated!), but where were the rest of the rat pack? HERE! They are here in America attacking those of us who have chosen an alternative.
Freedom of choice has become BS.
The tobacco companies have as much right to profit from stupidity as anybody else out there. I was stupid. I know the game. The Anti-smoking groups know the game. Why aren't they educating the people BEFORE the tobacco companies come in?? Why aren't they there NOW that there's a problem? Because all their money is spent attacking us, the alt-smokers, the Vapers, that's why. They're in a rut. This Video could have pushed them out of their rut. The video blames the tobacco company for trying to make a living the only way they know how... it's the countries that need to be enlightened, not the tobacco industry, not our country...
So, what is the video really saying? What is the point of the video?
Don't get me wrong, it's a beautifully put together video. But will it get the anti-smoking groups off my vaping behind and get to work where they belong? No. The video didn't go that far. They only shamed the tobacco company ... not the anti-smoking groups with their biased agendas.
Freedom of choice has become BS.
The tobacco companies have as much right to profit from stupidity as anybody else out there. I was stupid. I know the game. The Anti-smoking groups know the game. Why aren't they educating the people BEFORE the tobacco companies come in?? Why aren't they there NOW that there's a problem? Because all their money is spent attacking us, the alt-smokers, the Vapers, that's why. They're in a rut. This Video could have pushed them out of their rut. The video blames the tobacco company for trying to make a living the only way they know how... it's the countries that need to be enlightened, not the tobacco industry, not our country...
So, what is the video really saying? What is the point of the video?
Don't get me wrong, it's a beautifully put together video. But will it get the anti-smoking groups off my vaping behind and get to work where they belong? No. The video didn't go that far. They only shamed the tobacco company ... not the anti-smoking groups with their biased agendas.
Well, I thought it was interesting anyways even though it didn't mention vaping... It was meant to show how the tobacco companies are shifting their focus to undeveloped contries where people don't know how bad smoking actually is. They aren't worried about us anymore because we have internet and T.V. 
I am sure there is a video somewhere that will have what you want to see 
I am sure there is a video somewhere that will have what you want to see 
After watching that video, I hate those SOB's even more. It's one thing if an adult "chooses" to smoke but come on..kids? Why doesn't that government put a stop to it? It really made me cringe to see Audi (sp?) smoke at the age of 2 and the father shoving a smoke in his child's face. BT has done nothing but pushed their crap on other uneducated countries so why doesn't another country intervene and try to stop it or at least educate their government on the risks? I guess I could keep asking why but it won't do any good. Thank you for posting. I'm angry and saddened at the same time...not at you but at what Philip Morris is doing.
Yea, I was actually surprised that nothing came up when I searched for this on the forum. I am sure someone had seen it but maybe not
Wild - I know from my visits to Asia Pacific countries tobacco is like the national vegetable. Damn in China (where most mass produced e-cigs, atty's & cartos are made) most people do not even know what a e-cig is. They are amazed when they see mine.
Great vid, Panky, thanks for putting that up! I vaguely knew that it was kind of like that. Hearing real numbers drives it home even more. That was one reason that I started vaping? I wasn't feeling bad (Lord knows, I should have, after as long as I smoked). I was just vaguely ...... off that I was being a pawn of BT, and know that the prices are a slippery slope that will never get better. If I'm going to be addicted to something, at least it should be something fun...
Panky, I had to download it for later viewing. A bit long for those of us out in the sticks that get screwed with severely limited access to internet video. I didn't feel like sitting up in the middle of the night watching it. Perhaps tomorrow.
You're just as much a pawn of BP and the ?non-profit?"health" associations and the government as you are BT. This is all a big money game for all these groups and you're where they expect to get the money from. Even now as my signature indicates.
To the OP. This video is very disturbing. I cannot believe the audacity of BT. Marketing to children. Basically not giving a darn about anything. You would think the industry had learned it's lesson in America. But no, it's all about profit margin. Thank you for posting this video. It opened my eyes to the evil that has been perpetrated. It is a shame that e cigs were not even mentioned in helping with this crisis. But as far as Indonesia, it seems they are very poor. Most probably do not have electricity. So you would wonder how they could charge the e cig. It seems easier for that culture to smoke analogs. Wish there were more people fighting for the rights of those children. It is very sad.
Watched the documentary and several thoughts entered my mind. However, before I get to them, let me add one slightly OT comment. I'm writing this from my sofa with the Kathy and Hoda show on. Here it is a bit after 10 in the morning and these two ladies, on television and in front of any child that might be at all attentive, are drinking alcohol. We as a community are constantly fighting against a thought process that says you can't vape because it looks like smoking and it doesn't set a good example. What's wrong with this picture?
Anyway, some of my random thoughts about the video. First, Indonesia doesn't look much different than the US when I was growing up although I never really noticed at that time, only on recollection. I remember the TV ads, the billboards, the sporting event advertising but, as a kid, it had no influence on me. I'd spend 2 or 3 weeks during the summer with my school teaching aunt (parent break I suppose). I can't recall her ever NOT having a cigarette in her mouth. That never phased me either other than finding the smoke burned my eyes once in a while. Even those kids that smoked as I got into my early teenage years had no influence. I just had no desire to do it. Only the pressures of college and the knowledge that graduation and Viet Nam loomed did I succumb to smoking.
Second thought, was this an anti-smoking documentary or an early promotion for the pharmaceutical industry and tobacco control. Who was paying for the documentary? Was it independent or was there industry sponsorship? The pageant contestants seemed curious. Were they anti-smoking or just paid representatives of the TC movement. There's a lot of money in this whole game, it just depends what stage it's in. They made a big deal of the $.05 it cost for a single cigarette making it sound like they were cheap and readily available to kids while at the same time stating that the TC chick's father spend 1/3 of his income on cigarettes ($1 of the $3 he made each day). If a full grown man is making $3 a day, is $.05 for a cigarette inexpensive for a child? Look at it comparatively- someone making $15/hour here probably takes home somewhere around $81 a day (number established for easy division). They'd need to be spending $27 a day on smokes for an apple to apple comparison.
Final thought. Not once, that I noticed, did they get off the topic of smoking and move on to tobacco and nicotine. SMOKING was the topic much as it was the original topic in the US. Once TC gets a foothold and starts generating income for their sponsors will they work hard to make sure the only good nicotine is pharmaceutical nicotine. They say history repeats itself only because there's so much money in it.
AND, I almost forgot, will Aldi now become the third world poster child for obesity?
Anyway, some of my random thoughts about the video. First, Indonesia doesn't look much different than the US when I was growing up although I never really noticed at that time, only on recollection. I remember the TV ads, the billboards, the sporting event advertising but, as a kid, it had no influence on me. I'd spend 2 or 3 weeks during the summer with my school teaching aunt (parent break I suppose). I can't recall her ever NOT having a cigarette in her mouth. That never phased me either other than finding the smoke burned my eyes once in a while. Even those kids that smoked as I got into my early teenage years had no influence. I just had no desire to do it. Only the pressures of college and the knowledge that graduation and Viet Nam loomed did I succumb to smoking.
Second thought, was this an anti-smoking documentary or an early promotion for the pharmaceutical industry and tobacco control. Who was paying for the documentary? Was it independent or was there industry sponsorship? The pageant contestants seemed curious. Were they anti-smoking or just paid representatives of the TC movement. There's a lot of money in this whole game, it just depends what stage it's in. They made a big deal of the $.05 it cost for a single cigarette making it sound like they were cheap and readily available to kids while at the same time stating that the TC chick's father spend 1/3 of his income on cigarettes ($1 of the $3 he made each day). If a full grown man is making $3 a day, is $.05 for a cigarette inexpensive for a child? Look at it comparatively- someone making $15/hour here probably takes home somewhere around $81 a day (number established for easy division). They'd need to be spending $27 a day on smokes for an apple to apple comparison.
Final thought. Not once, that I noticed, did they get off the topic of smoking and move on to tobacco and nicotine. SMOKING was the topic much as it was the original topic in the US. Once TC gets a foothold and starts generating income for their sponsors will they work hard to make sure the only good nicotine is pharmaceutical nicotine. They say history repeats itself only because there's so much money in it.
AND, I almost forgot, will Aldi now become the third world poster child for obesity?
Further irony - e-cigarettes are banned in Indonesia.
My favorite quote:
I love the "science" behind this. They haven't been clinically tested, therefore, we conclude they are dangerous - even though they have been on the market worldwide for several years without any evidence of significant adverse health events.
Imported E-Cigarettes Banned and Dangerous, Indonesia Drug Agency Claims | The Jakarta Globe
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...onesia-pom-not-safe-electronic-cigarette.html
My favorite quote:
I love the "science" behind this. They haven't been clinically tested, therefore, we conclude they are dangerous - even though they have been on the market worldwide for several years without any evidence of significant adverse health events.
Imported E-Cigarettes Banned and Dangerous, Indonesia Drug Agency Claims | The Jakarta Globe
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...onesia-pom-not-safe-electronic-cigarette.html
They have the game plan steps in place alright.
1. mass addiction to tobacco cigarettes
2. ban alternative safer e-cig
3. bring in a few anti-smoking campaigners
4. spread the shame shame shame on you campaign
5. raise taxes
6. flood the news with anti-smoking campaigns & alienate the addicted wholeheartedly
7. raise taxes even more
8. repeat
Where are the investigative reporters?
1. mass addiction to tobacco cigarettes
2. ban alternative safer e-cig
3. bring in a few anti-smoking campaigners
4. spread the shame shame shame on you campaign
5. raise taxes
6. flood the news with anti-smoking campaigns & alienate the addicted wholeheartedly
7. raise taxes even more
8. repeat
Where are the investigative reporters?
Well spotted, Kristin.
I'll just say this- I've spent a little time in Indonesia. Like the US 30 years ago, like a lot of countries now, smoking is not particularly restricted. Like the US 20-30 years ago, cigs are cheap. (I still smoked when I was there.)
But the people there are NOT, for the most part, ignorant of the health risks. Coworkers .....ed me out for smoking while I was there, and some hotels, bars, and restaurants were offering non-smoking areas.
I have no doubt that the smoking children depicted in the video were real. But not common. They had to hunt for them.
In any country with desperately poor people (and that's most any country), the desperately poor make poor decisions. Not because they're simple or uninformed. BUt because they have so few options. In some poor neighborhoods in the US, you can find adaptors to fit a baby-bottle style nipple onto a beer bottle. Sounds terrible, and it is. But it keeps the baby asleep for a good long time, even if there's too much noise in the neighborhood.
In Ecuador I used to see street mothers (homeless) beg or buy a single cigarette, and share it with small children. When I asked them about it (I'm sort of nosy like that) they told me- it keeps them from getting hungry so soon. A cigarette only cost 15 cents at that time.
THe problem of poverty isn't caused by Phillip Morris. And it won't be solved by sactimonious "education."
I hate Phillip Morris, and for pretty good reasons. But I'm nervous about a film that villifies the tobacco companies above all else. It's building support for the antis.
Just my two cents worth. MAybe three.
Ande
I'll just say this- I've spent a little time in Indonesia. Like the US 30 years ago, like a lot of countries now, smoking is not particularly restricted. Like the US 20-30 years ago, cigs are cheap. (I still smoked when I was there.)
But the people there are NOT, for the most part, ignorant of the health risks. Coworkers .....ed me out for smoking while I was there, and some hotels, bars, and restaurants were offering non-smoking areas.
I have no doubt that the smoking children depicted in the video were real. But not common. They had to hunt for them.
In any country with desperately poor people (and that's most any country), the desperately poor make poor decisions. Not because they're simple or uninformed. BUt because they have so few options. In some poor neighborhoods in the US, you can find adaptors to fit a baby-bottle style nipple onto a beer bottle. Sounds terrible, and it is. But it keeps the baby asleep for a good long time, even if there's too much noise in the neighborhood.
In Ecuador I used to see street mothers (homeless) beg or buy a single cigarette, and share it with small children. When I asked them about it (I'm sort of nosy like that) they told me- it keeps them from getting hungry so soon. A cigarette only cost 15 cents at that time.
THe problem of poverty isn't caused by Phillip Morris. And it won't be solved by sactimonious "education."
I hate Phillip Morris, and for pretty good reasons. But I'm nervous about a film that villifies the tobacco companies above all else. It's building support for the antis.
Just my two cents worth. MAybe three.
Ande
Oh, even better because 3 out of 5 commercials are probably for cigarettes. They surely don't have any of the commercials that we have showing the teeth and lungs of smokers and what not and there is always someone who decides what is on the TV, unlike the internet.
Exactly Panky. They BAN eCigs, promote cigarette addiction, swarm them with shame, tax them to death. The taxes are coming next, just watch. First they'll claim it's for the hospitals who can't keep up with the patients, and then it'll be for any cause they feel they have leverage in.
America showed them the steps... and even pre-warned about tax money lost by those who actually quit smoking and switched to vaping.
Of course, now they're sneaking in e/cig tax on disguise bills. Help the special needs kids and tax the heck out of eCigs!!
Now there's a Corruption story if ever I heard one, I hope someone out there is brave enough to tackle it and stop this nonsense. There's too many lives at stake and eCigs are saving the lives of ex-smokers every day.
America showed them the steps... and even pre-warned about tax money lost by those who actually quit smoking and switched to vaping.
Of course, now they're sneaking in e/cig tax on disguise bills. Help the special needs kids and tax the heck out of eCigs!!
Now there's a Corruption story if ever I heard one, I hope someone out there is brave enough to tackle it and stop this nonsense. There's too many lives at stake and eCigs are saving the lives of ex-smokers every day.
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