Vapers March on Washington DC!

[beckdg]

What gets peoples real attention is riots and things burning, just saying. Organised crime could well be a godsend to vapers. They have distribution networks in place. They have layers of players so if one takes a fall there is one to replace them. All kidding aside, this could well be a very dark segment of American history. We have a long tradition of the invisible hand supplying products that the government deems unacceptable. In my mind, the FDA is acting like a petulant child seeking revenge because it got it's hand slapped a few years ago. This will not end well...

The war to fund the fight on Aids is a good example.

When the civil group split, half became uncivil.

Ultimately it took the existence of the latter to gain the bargaining chips of the former to effect any actual resolution.

Prohibition was another good example.

Wholesome family values were the tactics used outwardly to enact prohibition.

The seeming complete lack of them nationwide after prohibition led to a ridiculous downward spiral forced prohibition aside.

Took us a long time to recover from that.

Tapatyped

 

[crxess]

When you poison to steal the gold right out of the mouths of your victims it's called genocide. When government argues that it's for the children accomplishing essentially the same they call it public health? Somehow we've given them a pass for several generations…and what for? So they can expand their role, reach and the very taxes they levy upon us for the privilege? How long before we heed the warning that government is force and it's trajectory invariably corruption. Some things like fire you simply cannot let go out of control.

Good luck E. You read between the lines.

Didn't you know...............Congress said it is OKAY to lie to the American Public if it fits your needs:

The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public

 

[MacTechVpr]

Didn't you know...............Congress said it is OKAY to lie to the American Public if it fits your needs:

The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public

Well, thx for the ack here. Yes pandering is the principal tool of the centralist, the statist and grifter.

Didn't want to seem to sound like an anarchist cr (in the violent sense) with my last post. But there is a time and place for everything. And that is what a rational people endeavor to avoid, the extremes. I respect those here who argue consistently for engagement of the process. However, when the process is itself corrupted or to the extent that it is…it must be ignored as undue participation may only perpetuate and so compound the problem. It's important that we as a society be ever capable of the distinction of this self-defeating condition. To be prepared to acknowledge its arrival and act as needed to overcome it. And here we are.

I'm not urging disconnection. I've hinted and argued that if the law is broken it's the law that must be fixed (if we're to make any real headway). But a great part of what has happened so far while worthy of our responsible dedication has only served to validate the axiom that you can't argue with an angry man. And if we're honest, we can see the hate in those who oppose us.

I would add that one of the main things I struggle with here is not so much the constant question, what do we do? Rather, to me what's more essential…why? Without a sound basis for strategy I'm afraid, the net effect is likely disappointing or irrelevant.

Think it's not so much whether our positions and approaches differ as that we really need to agree first on what it is we want.

Good luck.

 

[beckdg]

Brilliant, Mac. Bravo!

Tapatyped

 

[Rickajho]

Think it's not so much whether our positions and approaches differ as that we really need to agree first on what it is we want.

Good luck.

So you're saying we should approach this like a Congressional Committee, decide we cannot agree on anything and then pat ourselves on the back for doing nothing?

Oh - except we won't get paid for doing it.

 

[MacTechVpr]

So you're saying we should approach this like a Congressional Committee, decide we cannot agree on anything and then pat ourselves on the back for doing nothing?

Oh - except we won't get paid for doing it.

Haven't a clue where you got that idea from what I've written. But now that you mention it. Isn't' that what we do here? Must've walked in the wrong door.

I've said all along since resuming posting on vape politics earlier this year that the FDA is not an earnest actor. That's been my position.

Not complaining we're in disarray or need to draw straws. I'm asking why? Or maybe better said about proposals, what do we expect to gain or retain as vapers? And, does that jive with the probable result of actions being recommended? Is there really an overlap with commercial interests? If not, where is it not? This concerns me.

Otherwise, I've got enough nic Rick. How about you?

Good luck all.

 

[crxess]

So you're saying we should approach this like a Congressional Committee, decide we cannot agree on anything and then pat ourselves on the back for doing nothing?

Oh - except we won't get paid for doing it.

Haven't a clue where you got that idea from what I've written. But now that you mention it. Isn't' that what we do here? Must've walked in the wrong door.

I've said all along since resuming posting on vape politics earlier this year that the FDA is not an earnest actor. That's been my position.

Not complaining we're in disarray or need to draw straws. I'm asking why? Or maybe better said about proposals, what do we expect to gain or retain as vapers? And, does that jive with the probable result of actions being recommended? Is there really an overlap with commercial interests? If not, where is it not? This concerns me.

Otherwise, I've got enough nic Rick. How about you?

Good luck all.

I do believe that is exactly what Rickajho is pointing out and with such accuracy.

All I see, almost everywhere I read and almost everywhere I go is DEER in HEADLIGHTS Stares
What to do now?
There going to what?
Is that legal?
Are you sure?

Ummm.............hello people are you not listening?

I would give anything for the Current issue threads to get 1/3rd the attention of some of these new device or My local Vape shop threads. It is no wonder many are not in any condition to offer anything positive to aid the situation.

People have become so Dependent on Government to make decisions for them, even when they Disagree with government, they wait for someone else to make decisions for them.
I have already done about all I cam with current representatives. I will continue as new avenues open.
I do not get out much in my condition, but openly discuss Vaping and current events relating as much as possible.
Next goal is to funnel as much of my limited income as possible into the pest possible directed litigation on our behalf and of course if/when possible to stand in peaceful protest on the matter.

Should I, at some future point, get arrested I promise a Hunger strike. The way I eat, I should be able to hold out for a few days before passing.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Well gentlemen I guess that's my point too. We need to have way more people really thinking about these issues. Not reactively but appreciating what it is that's needed to come out of this in form and function, in law and practice. Otherwise we may end up with a lot of disappointment in this community because there are a variety of interests and as many players and aspects to the applicable laws.

In other words, this is what I want and expect to do tomorrow and will defend this right and outcome. For me, that doesn't involve any FDA. I know what I want and why I want it. Can we extend that kind of clarity?

To date in my view the interests of the market (that's us) are secondary. To get what we need, we're going to have to be the ones to raise a ruckus. So I'll be clear here any capitulation to grandfathering is a postponement at the substantive expense of both and hitherto unchallenged personal and commercial rights, individual rights. I see the alternatives being pursued given the circumstances but at what cost? So how are we to regain a status of trust for those who would represent our comprehensive interests going forward beyond this given the track record of tobacco representation to date? I'm all chock full of reassurances I can pass around to those that haven't heard 'em.

What I know is the first go round with tobacco a quarter century ago the individual lost out to corporate interests. This time regardless who prevails among them, where go we?

As much as I can say at one sitting.

Good luck all.

 

[crxess]

Well gentlemen I guess that's my point too. We need to have way more people really thinking about these issues. Not reactively but appreciating what it is that's needed to come out of this in form and function, in law and practice. Otherwise we may end up with a lot of disappointment in this community because there are a variety of interests and as many players and aspects to the applicable laws.

In other words, this is what I want and expect to do tomorrow and will defend this right and outcome. For me, that doesn't involve any FDA. I know what I want and why I want it. Can we extend that kind of clarity?

To date in my view the interests of the market (that's us) are secondary. To get what we need, we're going to have to be the ones to raise a ruckus. So I'll be clear here any capitulation to grandfathering is a postponement at the substantive expense of both and hitherto unchallenged personal and commercial rights, individual rights. I see the alternatives being pursued given the circumstances but at what cost? So how are we to regain a status of trust for those who would represent our comprehensive interests going forward beyond this given the track record of tobacco representation to date? I'm all chock full of reassurances I can pass around to those that haven't heard 'em.

What I know is the first go round with tobacco a quarter century ago the individual lost out to corporate interests. This time regardless who prevails among them, where go we?

As much as I can say at one sitting.

Good luck all.

I'm just saying this once for clarification.

You present in ways I can barely comprehend. Call it poor education of an Elderly individual of the working class or whatever you wish, but I wonder how many others honestly have in focus on what it is you are attempting to present as a logical course of action any individual may be concerned with considering.

That said, confusion sets in with mention of Grandfathering. While I would love to see it become a Moot point and the FDA driven completely out of position to control the Vapor Product market, the likelihood is nill as the Regulations are in and the Ink is drying.
Per this condition, I fully Support and have been communicating the importance of the Cole-Bishop bill as a Stop gap measure to protect what we Already have and buy time needed to filter through all 499 pages of FDA Deeming as well as any precedent documentation in order for a skilled legal team to Present a case for the entire industry.

Should we continue to act as small pods of individuals - Business' - Manufacturers with our own individual goals we must admit to our desire to fail miserably. Without a solidarity of every invested person within this new technology arena(consumer/Retailer/Manufacturer/Investor) we stand little chance of affording to successfully challenge government, much less win.

This is not my windmill, finances and Home are my daily concern through uncertainty due to ongoing Battles with Workers comp, Disability and increasing worsening of physical health due to immobility.

None the less I stay as involved as possible for the Millions this Will effect. for millions who's lives may be improved - If given the chance to choose.

Every thought of FDA forceable destruction of this industry brings my mind back to the loss of my mother and the chance She may have had, should Vaping been around sooner. For All those Future Mothers/Fathers and their children, I refuse to stand quietly aside.

Apologies I feel I got off on a Rant

 

[Stubby]

There are more than 10 million vapers in this country right now. I certainly hope that at least half of us are able to make this. We must be heard and seen.

A reality check is in order. CASAA has somewhere around 160,000 members. That is the number of people who are active enough to join an advocacy group (it is free to join). You would be hard pressed to get 10% of that number to travel to DC for a march.

This is not going to happen anywhere even remotely close to what you envision. It would likely be more of an embarrassment for us and could very well do more harm then good.

 

[crxess]

This is not going to happen anywhere even remotely close to what you envision. It would likely be more of an embarrassment for us and could very well do more harm then good.

So you do not think 16, 000 People Posing in front of the FDA for a nice Group pic and a little positive publicity would have any effect?
An Embarrassment? Guess that depends on high and mighty standards of some.

I've been a part of 10k plus Peaceful gatherings in DC and they can gather attention.

To each their own.

* I do agree, to many are simply and completely unaware of what is happening to this Industry and our freedom of choice.

 

[Robino1]

I'm just saying this once for clarification.

You present in ways I can barely comprehend. Call it poor education of an Elderly individual of the working class or whatever you wish, but I wonder how many others honestly have in focus on what it is you are attempting to present as a logical course of action any individual may be concerned with considering.

That said, confusion sets in with mention of Grandfathering. While I would love to see it become a Moot point and the FDA driven completely out of position to control the Vapor Product market, the likelihood is nill as the Regulations are in and the Ink is drying.
Per this condition, I fully Support and have been communicating the importance of the Cole-Bishop bill as a Stop gap measure to protect what we Already have and buy time needed to filter through all 499 pages of FDA Deeming as well as any precedent documentation in order for a skilled legal team to Present a case for the entire industry.

Should we continue to act as small pods of individuals - Business' - Manufacturers with our own individual goals we must admit to our desire to fail miserably. Without a solidarity of every invested person within this new technology arena(consumer/Retailer/Manufacturer/Investor) we stand little chance of affording to successfully challenge government, much less win.

This is not my windmill, finances and Home are my daily concern through uncertainty due to ongoing Battles with Workers comp, Disability and increasing worsening of physical health due to immobility.

None the less I stay as involved as possible for the Millions this Will effect. for millions who's lives may be improved - If given the chance to choose.

Every thought of FDA forceable destruction of this industry brings my mind back to the loss of my mother and the chance She may have had, should Vaping been around sooner. For All those Future Mothers/Fathers and their children, I refuse to stand quietly aside.

Apologies I feel I got off on a Rant

Never apologize for such a heartfelt rant

I fight not for me, I fight for those that come after to have a chance. I fight for change.

 

[Stubby]

So you do not think 16, 000 People Posing in front of the FDA for a nice Group pic and a little positive publicity would have any effect?
An Embarrassment? Guess that depends on high and mighty standards of some.

I've been a part of 10k plus Peaceful gatherings in DC and they can gather attention.

To each their own.

* I do agree, to many are simply and completely unaware of what is happening to this Industry and our freedom of choice.

I don't know why you would want to go to the FDA for anything. It is abundantly clear they are not going to listen to us. I understand this is not for them, but to try and raise awareness, but that goal would be very questionable. We can't even get many vape shops to advocate, what chance does this have to do something positive?

You are going to spend a huge amount of resources on this that would include time, energy, and money, and to what end. If you can't answer a few simple questions, or even ask them for yourself, then perhaps you need to back up a bit and think about it.

The 16,000 was just an off the top of my head figure. On farther thought it would likely be extremely doubtful to be close to that. Perhaps a few thousand. You may get some people on this forum that would get excited about it, but outside of that......

It has nothing to do with high and mighty standards (whatever that might mean). It has to do with dealing with reality.

 

[crxess]

I don't know why you would want to go to the FDA for anything. It is abundantly clear they are not going to listen to us. I understand this is not for them, but to try and raise awareness, but that goal would be very questionable. We can't even get many vape shops to advocate, what chance does this have to do something positive?

You are going to spend a huge amount of resources on this that would include time, energy, and money, and to what end. If you can't answer a few simple questions, or even ask them for yourself, then perhaps you need to back up a bit and think about it.

The 16,000 was just an off the top of my head figure. On farther thought it would likely be extremely doubtful to be close to that. Perhaps a few thousand. You may get some people on this forum that would get excited about it, but outside of that......

It has nothing to do with high and mighty standards (whatever that might mean). It has to do with dealing with reality.

Reality is Two avenues have always worked for change - Court of Lat and Applied pressure through Public Awareness.

This has nothing to do with Going to the FDA for anything and everything to do with Expanding Public Awareness of our Dissatisfaction with the Actions of the FDA.

Place 500 people in front of any business accused of corrupt actions and you get exposure out to the Public, much less 5,000 or 15,000 like minded Citizens.

* If this is not a course of action suited to your ideals, so be it. I hold no resentment for your choice and only hope you have some plan of action to support your right to choose.
Best of luck,
Dal

 

[zoiDman]

Senate Oversight Committee Chairman Ron Johnson is going to give an Interview Tonight to discuss the FDA and e-Cigarettes.

Senator Ron Johnson (@SenRonJohnson) | Twitter

Please pass it Along to people who might Not have heard about it.

 

[crxess]

Senate Oversight Committee Chairman Ron Johnson is going to give an Interview Tonight to discuss the FDA and e-Cigarettes.

Senator Ron Johnson (@SenRonJohnson) | Twitter

Please pass it Along to people who might Not have heard about it.

Tweet Saying Tonight 5:05pm CT, was 22+ hours ago..................Sounds like Last night

Cannot find a Broadcast copy

 

[zoiDman]

Tweet Saying Tonight 5:05pm CT, was 22+ hours ago..................Sounds like Last night

Cannot find a Broadcast copy

Ah #%!$*!

 

[zoiDman]

Senate Oversight Committee Chairman Ron Johnson is going to give an Interview Tonight to discuss the FDA and e-Cigarettes.

Senator Ron Johnson (@SenRonJohnson) | Twitter

Please pass it Along to people who might Not have heard about it.

OK... Looks like this Interview with Senator Ron Johnson was done Last Night.

But here is a Link to the Re-Broadcast of thanks to Stubby.

Stream Vicki McKenna HR 3 Friday Free | 1310 WIBA

 

[Coldrake]

Ah #%!$*!

The interview was actually yesterday. This link is to the recorded interview Stream Vicki McKenna HR 3 Friday Free | 1310 WIBA

Everyone should listen to this. I wish Senator Ron Johnson was running for President, I'd vote for him. Twice.

You can also download the interview from the page.

 

[DoctorJ]

But he already has money and power behind him. Rich people can do a lot more stupid stuff than ones not as well off.

I don't recall many of the original colonists who fought the Revolutionary War being very rich and see what they did!