vaping and chronic illness

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davettn

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Thanks for the replies guys. It was some interesting reading. I'm seeing a lot of 'for' in the nicotine argument but I'm going to cut back on it I think.

@subohmboy the reason I'm doing it through this is cos I don't want to meddle with other mediums too and end up in nicotine hell :)

@YoursTruli how did you go about finding out your diagnosis was wrong? I suffer with optic neuritis on and off and stupidly cannot remember if the lesions are in my brain as well as spine. I suppose it's just a case of pushing the doctors?

Thanks all. Much appreciated :)
 
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crxess

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That's for the replies guys. It was some interesting reading. I'm seeing a lot of 'for' in the nicotine argument but I'm going to cut back on it I think.

@subohmboy the reason I'm doing it through this is cos I don't want to meddle with other mediums too and end up in nicotine hell :)

@YoursTruli how did you go about finding out your diagnosis was wrong? I suffer with optic neuritis on and off and stupidly cannot remember if the lesions are in my brain as well as spine. I suppose it's just a case of pushing the doctors?

Thanks all. Much appreciated :)

Push hard! As I said, I've been in hell for 2 years and still no definitive diagnosis. The Workers Comp insurance co. finally Challenged again, calling for an IME......Dr of their choice. Fortunately this was a very serious Dr and after receiving his report, I am going through another battery of test and examinations in an effort to pinpoint the problem.
All I want is definitive answers - good or bad - so I can plan the rest of my life.
 

motordude

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Here are a few studies on nicotine and MS

Novel Therapeutic Approach by Nicotine in Experimental Model of Multiple Sclerosis

...............Conclusion:
Our data indicate that nicotine can significantly improve the clinical score and attenuate the demyelinating pathology typically found in experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis, indicating that nicotine has protective effects in experimental model of multiple sclerosis.


Acta Pharmacologica Sinica - Nicotine and inflammatory neurological disorders

..............Epidemiological studies have shown an association of smoking with a higher occurrence of MS35, 37, 39, while our results show that nicotine exposure significantly delays and attenuates inflammatory and autoimmune responses to myelin antigens in the mouse experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE) model40. This occurs whether nicotine treatment begins prior to, at the time of, or after immunization with myelin antigens to induce EAE. Moreover, nicotine exposure also suppresses disease development on adoptive transfer of autoimmune T cells. First, we demonstrated that the expansion of MOG-reactive T cells from the spleen in nicotine-treated mice was significantly dampened. In these animals, MOG-reactive Th cells produced less IFN-γ and IL-2 than cells from PBS-treated controls, whereas the production of IL-10, and particularly TGF-β, was augmented. A marginal, but not significant, reduction of IL-17 was observed in mice received nicotine. Our observation is somewhat surprising given the augmentation of TGF-β in nicotine exposed mice. Nicotine also did not appear to induce apoptosis in autoreactive T cells. This outcome invites the prediction that the immunological effects induced by nicotine may have contributed to the decreased T cell proliferation and altered cytokine profile. We also observed that, although the absolute numbers of CD4+CD25+ regulatory T cells were not dramatically altered by nicotine exposure, expression of FoxP3 was significantly upregulated. These regulatory T cells with enhanced FoxP3 expression may contribute to the suppression of T effector/autoreative cells. Furthermore, we found that nicotine significantly reduced levels of MHC class II, CD80, and CD86 expression on peripheral CD11c+ and CD11b+ cells. Notably, these changes were more dramatic for CD11b+ cells. It is likely that the altered APC phenotype in nicotine-treated animals may, at least in part, reduce the encephalitogenic capacity of MOG-reactive T cells in the EAE model.

In the CNS, in sharp contrast with control EAE mice, nicotine-treated animals had relatively few cellular infiltrates in CNS. Further, flow cytometry analysis of the cellular infiltrates showed that a significant reduction of CD4+, CD8+, CD19+, CD11c+, CD11b+, and CD11b+CD45+cell populations; and the reductions in CD19+ B cells and CD11c+ dendritic cells seem to reflect diminished migration into the CNS from the periphery. It is presently unclear whether the reduction of CD4+ and CD8+ cells in the CNS stems from reduced influx from the periphery, impaired expansion in the CNS after migration, or both. Whatever the mechanism may be, it is clear that there is significantly reduced expression of antigen presentation machinery by resident or infiltrating CD11c+and CD11b+ cells.

There are several possibilities as to how nicotine attenuates the disease even after EAE has been initiated after concurrence of CNS symptoms (Table 2). Nicotine may inhibit myelin-reactive T cell determinant spreading when T cells migrating from the periphery encounter CNS antigens.........


Nicotine and serotonin in immune regulation and inflammatory processes: a perspective
Thank you so much for this info!
I've found early on that it makes me feel a bit weak but I think, cos I've rarely been a user of nicotine products I was taking too much. Cutting down helps but you're right my muscles don't jump nearly as much in bed since doing it.

I also found that baclofen made my legs worse so I think it's trial and error for everyone. No two cases are the same but it seems some things that help, help most people (I.E nicotine)

Stay strong mate. I genuinely believe nothing is incurable!
The oral baclofen does nothing for me.
When I smoked and still walked it made my legs weak sometimes. I quit with the patch for 3 months then. I had a bad exacerbation and went back to smoking.(about 8 years ago)
I am all about quality of life and my body my decision.
I don't usually give advice on MS, but I don't judge anyone for trying to alleviate the symptoms.
Just do the best you can to cope. Laughter can be very helpful, with a positive attitude.
 

Steamix

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... Why would you inhale a mix of chemicals (as safe as they may be) when you don't have to?


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Because he wants to ? :)

It's a good thing that researchers take a look at nicotine itself, wihtout being influenced by that tabbco bad , nicotine in tobacco, so nicotine bad, chain of reasoning.

If it doesn't worsen your condition and makes you feel better - subjectively or objectively, why not ?

Plenty of data here so that you can make an informed decision .

Whether or not, that's for you alone to decide. Is your hide :)
 
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motordude

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Because he wants to ? :)

It's a good thing that researchers take a look at nicotine itself, wihtout being influenced by that tabbco bad , nicotine in tobacco, so nicotine bad, chain of reasoning.

If it doesn't worsen your condition and makes you feel better - subjectively or objectively, why not ?

Plenty of data here so that you can make an informed decision .

Whether or not, that's for you alone to decide. Is your hide :)
This, this,this!:thumbs:
 

subohmboy

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Because he wants to ? :)

It's a good thing that researchers take a look at nicotine itself, wihtout being influenced by that tabbco bad , nicotine in tobacco, so nicotine bad, chain of reasoning.

If it doesn't worsen your condition and makes you feel better - subjectively or objectively, why not ?

Plenty of data here so that you can make an informed decision .

Whether or not, that's for you alone to decide. Is your hide :)

I think you missed my point. I'm all for him trying a controlled trial of nicotine therapy, but vaping is not a controlled delivery method. It is close to controlled, but there are many variables in each puff on a PV. A pharmaceutically dosed product might be a better way to do a controlled trial. There are various strengths of product available.


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motordude

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I think you missed my point. I'm all for him trying a controlled trial of nicotine therapy, but vaping is not a controlled delivery method. It is close to controlled, but there are many variables in each puff on a PV. A pharmaceutically dosed product might be a better way to do a controlled trial. There are various strengths of product available.


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Oh I agree with your overall post, that's the only way a trial could, should be done. Unfortunately BP is going to have to finance such a trial because nic has been demonized.
At the same time I think you control your own health care and education of it.
 

YoursTruli

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@YoursTruli how did you go about finding out your diagnosis was wrong? I suffer with optic neuritis on and off and stupidly cannot remember if the lesions are in my brain as well as spine. I suppose it's just a case of pushing the doctors?

Thanks all. Much appreciated :)

International consensus diagnostic criteria for neuromyelitis optica spectrum disorders


I would begin by asking your neurologist for a AQP4 (NMO-IgG) Autoantibody test, have them test both the serum and CFS for the antibody. Neuromyelitis optica (NMO) is an inflammatory CNS syndrome distinct from multiple sclerosis (MS) that is associated with serum aquaporin-4 immunoglobulin G antibodies (AQP4-IgG). Aquaporin-4 (AQP4) is a major antigen in neuromyelitis optica and antibodies can be detected in more than 75% of patients. Classic symptoms associated with NMO are neuromyelitis optica and longitudinally extensive transverse myelitis

ETA: I thought I should add that unfortunately optic neuritis is also closely associated with MS.

Optic Neuritis and MS
......Isolated acute optic neuritis is often the first sign of MS, and many individuals with MS develop optic neuritis during the course of their disease. This is the presenting syndrome in 20% of MS patients.......


and that thankfully NMO is relatively rare 1 to 2 per 100,000 people worldwide. Women are affected by this condition more frequently than men.
 
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subohmboy

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Oh I agree with your overall post, that's the only way a trial could, should be done. Unfortunately BP is going to have to finance such a trial because nic has been demonized.
At the same time I think you control your own health care and education of it.

He can do his own trial. Just buy the lowest dose gum or lozenge available and work out a dosing regimen. Something like 1mg every 3-4 hours or so to start and see how it affects him. Titrate up if it feels good or stop if it doesn't. Keep a journal or audio journal every hour for a few days. It's basic scientific method. I didn't read all the papers but it's a legal drug, there's no reason you can't do your own testing.


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