Vaping and depression? Veteran vapers.

[BigEgo]

Depression generally speaking is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Simply put it's often a reduction of the neurotransmitters serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine. Which is what most anti depressants work to increase. And from everything I've read and researched about it (I have major depression, general anxiety disorder, and PTSD) this stuff often stems from life experience and how your brain deals with it. But sometimes it just happens for who the .... knows what reasons. Mid 50's are when my father started suffering from major depression with no traceable causes. As you age things in your brain change and sometimes these things happen. There's always help though and lots of times medication isn't necessary.

Yes, this is true. Depression seems to be a good mix of biological (genetic), and environmental triggers. We know there is a strong genetic component because there is strong evidence that it runs in families as do most psychiatric disorders. Take a look at the Hemmingways for one example (numerous suicides in that prominent family). Most people will notice the onset in their teens or early 20's. However, it can onset later in life without any prior history.

My only point here is that smoking is strongly correlated with mental health issues (whether depression or other disorders). As I said, 44% of all cigarettes consumed in America are consumed by people who have some sort of mental illness. It's well known that schizophrenics are highly inclined to smoke (I have known several, and they all chain smoked). There's some sort of therapeutic property in tobacco (whether nicotine or not) that appears to perhaps give some minor relief.

So if the OP is feeling more depressed after switching to vaping, it is doubtful that vaping is causing depression. It's more likely that he/she is missing some of the "therapeutic" properties of tobacco smoke. It does appear it is more complicated than just nicotine.

O course, there may be no cause/effect here at all, as it's pretty hard to prove cause and effect in individual cases like this. The best science can usually do is show a correlation over a large sample.

 

[suppavillin]

Yes...I have. I am 32 and smoked for 10 years. 2 months ago I switched to vaping. Been noticing I also feel down and sort of depressed. I don't know what it is. Never felt depressed before, im not sure if its from the lack of cigs or the addition of vaping? I feel your pain though, I don't feel like doing much, I just feel down.

 

[four2109]

Yes...I have. I am 32 and smoked for 10 years. 2 months ago I switched to vaping. Been noticing I also feel down and sort of depressed. I don't know what it is. Never felt depressed before, im not sure if its from the lack of cigs or the addition of vaping? I feel your pain though, I don't feel like doing much, I just feel down.

I'm trying to put together a POLL. I'm looking for input, but I know that it will get slammed with naysayers... I think there may be a gender component in this. I've seen it come up for 5 years....

I just cut to the chase because the poll thread posted before I was finished with it.
I can always do another once we get some feedback. I just wonder if something interferes with the endocrine system somewhere.
Something is happening. I'm not smoking. Is it worth it? What could be done different?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...on-since-quitting-analogs-starting-ecigs.html

 

[AndriaD]

Yes...I have. I am 32 and smoked for 10 years. 2 months ago I switched to vaping. Been noticing I also feel down and sort of depressed. I don't know what it is. Never felt depressed before, im not sure if its from the lack of cigs or the addition of vaping? I feel your pain though, I don't feel like doing much, I just feel down.

It's from lack of cigarettes, not vaping. Specifically, the lack of the MAOIs. The only way to fix it, that I know of, is a) go back to smoking, b) get a prescription for some expensive SSRI (Prozac, Effexor, et al), or c) use WTA.

Andria

 

[alopezg1]

It's from lack of cigarettes, not vaping. Specifically, the lack of the MAOIs. The only way to fix it, that I know of, is a) go back to smoking, b) get a prescription for some expensive SSRI (Prozac, Effexor, et al), or c) use WTA.

Andria

or snus ,or all 3, make a night of it!

 

[alopezg1]

and those anti depressants won't help at all , none have MAO inhibitor properties

 

[alopezg1]

nardil is what you'd need and that's some heavy ....

 

[alopezg1]

I'm trying to put together a POLL. I'm looking for input, but I know that it will get slammed with naysayers... I think there may be a gender component in this. I've seen it come up for 5 years....

I just cut to the chase because the poll thread posted before I was finished with it.
I can always do another once we get some feedback. I just wonder if something interferes with the endocrine system somewhere.
Something is happening. I'm not smoking. Is it worth it? What could be done different?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...on-since-quitting-analogs-starting-ecigs.html

tobacco is a has powerful psychotropic properties , your brain has become reliant on these , some studies actually show significant changes in brain structure from long term tobacco abuse .... you have stopped using a powerful psychotropic drug after years of use and dependance , mystery solved

 

[alopezg1]

Yes...I have. I am 32 and smoked for 10 years. 2 months ago I switched to vaping. Been noticing I also feel down and sort of depressed. I don't know what it is. Never felt depressed before, im not sure if its from the lack of cigs or the addition of vaping? I feel your pain though, I don't feel like doing much, I just feel down.

You may start to feel better , if not and you are really struggling try WTA liquid or Snus

 

[AndriaD]

and those anti depressants won't help at all , none have MAO inhibitor properties

Actually they have a similar effect, though they go about it, chemically, via a different mechanism. SSRI is a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor, like Prozac or Paxil, and Effexor is an reuptake inhibitor for serotonin *and* norepinephrine, which is why it's effective, on-label, not just for depression but also Generalized Anxiety Syndrome. I don't know for sure, but I don't think SSRIs of any type do anything with dopamine, which I believe is deeply involved in the reaction to nicotine, so it's probably true that MAOIs are *more* effective than focused drugs like SSRIs, but SSRIs *would* help to some extent.

However there are also pharmaceutical MAOI drugs, which could be used instead of SSRIs.

Andria

EDIT: Yes, I forgot about Snus, because I've never considered it a viable option for *me* -- others might not be so grossed out by it, and I believe it does contain that full alkaloid spectrum.

 

[alopezg1]

WTA in my opinion is an improvement on the regular liquid , but is still a long way off from giving you what you got from tobacco
snus in my opinion will give you more of the 'goodies' than cigarettes , just slower

 

[alopezg1]

Actually they have a similar effect, though they go about it, chemically, via a different mechanism. SSRI is a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor, like Prozac or Paxil, and Effexor is an reuptake inhibitor for serotonin *and* norepinephrine, which is why it's effective, on-label, not just for depression but also Generalized Anxiety Syndrome. I don't know for sure, but I don't think SSRIs of any type do anything with dopamine, which I believe is deeply involved in the reaction to nicotine, so it's probably true that MAOIs are *more* effective than focused drugs like SSRIs, but SSRIs *would* help to some extent.

However there are also pharmaceutical MAOI drugs, which could be used instead of SSRIs.

Andria

Well in my experience SSRI'S have never had any effect of alleviating tobacco withdrawal and depession .... and yes Nardil is an example of an MAOI anti depressant but hey really aren't used much anymore except in extreme cases , as they are dangerous and troublesome and have irreversible effects on the brain ... i'd take tobacco thanks

 

[QU1T]

It both interests me and saddens me to read all this,
I imagine its not much comfort, but I wish you guys all the best.

 

[AndriaD]

WTA in my opinion is an improvement on the regular liquid , but is still a long way off from giving you what you got from tobacco
snus in my opinion will give you more of the 'goodies' than cigarettes , just slower

All I ever got from cigarettes was "normal," and WTAs work very well for me. Normal means, I get dressed, I brush my hair, I carry on with my normal life, rather than just moping in bed all day about how much my life sucks, bursting into tears at every maudlin country song, or screaming in rage at being so "misunderstood." With WTA, I have none of that mess, so it works extremely well. I never expected it to be a magic wand -- my wish to not smoke is my own, from years of knowing I was absolutely insane to carry on smoking but powerless to do anything about it. WTA gives me that power, to back up my own wishes.

Andria

 

[alopezg1]

All I ever got from cigarettes was "normal," and WTAs work very well for me. Normal means, I get dressed, I brush my hair, I carry on with my normal life, rather than just moping in bed all day about how much my life sucks, bursting into tears at every maudlin country song, or screaming in rage at being so "misunderstood." With WTA, I have none of that mess, so it works extremely well. I never expected it to be a magic wand -- my wish to not smoke is my own, from years of knowing I was absolutely insane to carry on smoking but powerless to do anything about it. WTA gives me that power, to back up my own wishes.

Andria

well that's excellent .... I hate smoking , but was in the strange position of not being able to live without it , but the anxiety it generated and self hatred also made things very difficult for me as well .... there are other options now , and whatever works for whoever is the best ...... I do think that eventually the brain would 'right itself' but i think it would take a very long time .... and that is a very long time to spend being utterly miserable and a wreck , i don't have the strength to do it , so i use whatever i can to keep me off cigarettes

 

[alopezg1]

but it's precarious , the EU don't like snus.... no one seems to like vaping , and WTA liquid seems to even be disliked by some vapers , when the restrictions come in , stuff like WTA will be the first to suffer .....

 

[AndriaD]

but it's precarious , the EU don't like snus.... no one seems to like vaping , and WTA liquid seems to even be disliked by some vapers , when the restrictions come in , stuff like WTA will be the first to suffer .....

That's what I'm afraid of, but the recent letter from Boehner about changing the "grandfather" date in the deeming regs could be a ray of light. Worst case, I figure I've got at least a year before the deeming reaches "final rule", so I have time to taper down very gradually, till I no longer need it -- much easier than with cigarettes. Right now, using 25mg unflavored WTA, I mix it with my ejuice at 10%. I figure in a few months I'll take it down to 9%, and so on, so that my stupid brain has a chance to wean from it. I'd probably always do better with it, but weaning from it slowly has got to be better than sudden cessation.

Andria

 

[BigEgo]

Actually they have a similar effect, though they go about it, chemically, via a different mechanism. SSRI is a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor, like Prozac or Paxil, and Effexor is an reuptake inhibitor for serotonin *and* norepinephrine, which is why it's effective, on-label, not just for depression but also Generalized Anxiety Syndrome.

SSRI's are used all the time for anxiety disorders, even those that do nothing for norepinephrine. I tale Zoloft for anxiety and the psychiatrist said it is generally one of the first SSRI's he tries for it.

 

[kc57]

Ok I am 54 I was a very heavy smoker 50 a day in the end but have not had one single smoke or even a puff in over 2 years.

I am wondering if vaping causes depression? When I smoked I was very active in fact i have always been a bit hyper active but since I stopped smoking I have become very inactive and just cant be bothered any more to do all the things I used to do and enjoy?

As anyone else experienced this? it could be unrelated to vaping or smoking but its the only thing that has changed in my life since i started vaping full time.

Cheers.

I was a 2 pack a day smoker until 3 years ago at age 53 I had a mild heart attack and soon after heard about ecigs. I immediately started on those and quit cigs. Right away had lots of problems and over the years have discovered multiple causes. I always knew smoking gave me a lift so the combination of quitting plus menopause brought on depression. Had severe breathing problems as I stopped smoking and after years of trying to figure out why and doctors trying to point the finger to vaping, finally found out I was having a reaction to one of my blood pressure medications. Very stuffy nose was another new problem and then I read an article about others having this problem after quitting and it might be likely due to cigs produce hot smoke that clears out nasal passages. Anyways I feel smoking hide some of the problems I had and long term smoking (over 30 years) did impact my body. Seems to me it was stopping smoking and not vaping that caused some of the problems and others were from years of smoking catching up to me. I have no desire to go back to cigs as I remind myself some mild depression and low energy is better than COPD and cancer Smoking was my crutch to pick me up and help me focus, now I have to find another way that fits my new life style. Also have been researching and using vitamins to help heal my body and do feel better especially with high doses of vitamin c. I hope you find something that works for you.

 

[ABx009]

In addition to the chemical changes from quitting, it's worth considering that as smokers we learned to use cigs as our method of coping -- especially those of us that started smoking as teens, before we really learned healthy coping skills. Any time that we felt stressed, tired, down, over-excited, or just about anything, we lit up and that was that. I think that's a big reason that we can get 'cravings' for so long after quitting; even if the chemicals in cigs caused brain changes directly, a large part of that was because of our behavior and the ways that we changed our brain ourselves to accommodate and extend them. It's really important to learn new, healthier coping skills, and preferably to dis-associate these feelings with a chemical fix.

If you feel like you are missing something that you needed from smoking, I'd urge you to talk to your doctor. If you've already been medicating with probably the most risky thing you could, and were able to live with some of the worst side-effects you could get, then you'd definitely have what it takes to do it the right way You still need to learn the behavioral stuff to make it work, but they have spent huge amounts of their adult life seeing what does and doesn't work (for what people and in what circumstances) Consider, though, that there have been a lot of people (with no intention of quitting smoking) that took Welbutrin and suddenly felt like they didn't want to smoke; obviously they found (even accidentally) that some of the meds completely satisfied the desire for the chemicals in tobacco, and in a way that gave them better control of their life.

It's also worth eating some extra fruit and veg when quitting. Smoking may have caused some deficiency or another, and you'll need all the nutrients you can get to help healing regardless.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but this stuff is covered in the smoking cessation material, and it was pretty evident in my experience. Now that this stuff is settling out, though, I'm feeling better and more even-keeled than I ever did when smoking.