Vaping vs Smoking Equivalent Nicotine Intake - Does Vaping Cause Way Higher Nicotine Intake?

[consultant]

I have been a pack a week Marlboro Light Smoker (basically a social smoker) off an on over the years. I gave vaping a try a few years ago using e-juice with freebase nicotine (12mg I think it was) and didn't like it. For one I found the PG I was mildly allergic too (gave me mild asthma when I smoked it), going with a high VG fluid though solved that. But it still didn't "feel" as pleasurable for an occasional smoke as smoking a Marlboro Light.

Fast forward to more recent and I decided I don't want the all the crap in my lungs that comes with inhaling burning material. So I read up on nic salt based e-juice. I was a bit surprised you can't get it in anything less than 35mg/ml. Picked up an eGo AIO (using 1 ohm coils - equiv of 14-18 watts) and some 35mg salt e-juice, got used to the different throat hit feel compared to smoking, and I ended up loving it! No stinky smoke breath, lungs feel way better (even though I wasn't a frequent smoker.)

The downside is that with the vaping, especially since I use a mild tobacco flavored juice (American Patriot), it doesn't stink up my car or house so I can smoke it like pretty much anywhere, anytime. So I'm finding where before, I'd have to stop working and go out on my deck to smoke a cig, I can vape while sitting at my home office desk!

So I've realized, I'm actually smoking (vaping) a lot more than I smoked because of the convenience. But still not a lot. (Or at least I thought!) Currently I'm going through about 1 30ml bottle of e-juice every 3 months. I'm probably filling my eGo (a 2ml capacity) 1-2 times per week, lets say 1.5 times a week on average, so I'm probably going through about 3ml a week which is about right as then that is about 2 and a half months to go through one 30ml bottle or about my original estimate have how often I go through a bottle.

The thing I'm a bit freaked out about is the calculations I recently did which are...

Marlboro light have 0.8mg of nicotine per cigarette. I never smoked them down that far so I bet I smoked the equivalent of 0.6mg per cig. At 20 cigs in a pack, one pack a week, that's 12mg of nicotine a week.

With the 35mg e-salt juice, if I'm smoking 3ml a week, that's 105mg of nicotine or the equivalent of 175 cigs with 0.6mg each or 8.75 packs a week or a little over a pack a day.

HOLY CRAP! Is this really correct?

Now I know vaping is way more "healthier" than smoking, and moderate nicotine intake isn't all that bad from what I've read (similar to caffeine intake) as long as it's done in moderation, but does it boil down to that the majority of vapers that were smokers have probably not taken time to "do the math" like this and don't realize they are probably taking in WAY more nicotine than they did when they were smokers?

 

[Izan]

I have been a pack a week Marlboro Light Smoker (basically a social smoker) off an on over the years. I gave vaping a try a few years ago using e-juice with freebase nicotine (12mg I think it was) and didn't like it. For one I found the PG I was mildly allergic too (gave me mild asthma when I smoked it), going with a high VG fluid though solved that. But it still didn't "feel" as pleasurable for an occasional smoke as smoking a Marlboro Light.

Fast forward to more recent and I decided I don't want the all the crap in my lungs that comes with inhaling burning material. So I read up on nic salt based e-juice. I was a bit surprised you can't get it in anything less than 35mg/ml. Picked up an eGo AIO and some 35mg salt e-juice, got uses to the different throat hit feel compared to smoking, and I ended up loving it! No stinky smoke breath, lungs feel way better (even though I wasn't a frequent smoker.)

The downside is that with the vaping, especially since I use a mild tobacco flavored juice (American Patriot), it doesn't stink up my car or house so I can smoke it like pretty much anywhere, anytime. So I'm finding where before, I'd have to stop working and go out on my deck to smoke a cig, I can vape while sitting at my home office desk!

So I've realized, I'm actually smoking (vaping) a lot more than I smoked because of the convenience. But still not a lot. (Or at least I thought!) Currently I'm going through about 1 30ml bottle of e-juice every 3 months. I'm probably filling my eGo (a 2ml capacity) nor more than once a week and probably not full, so I'm probably going through about 3ml a week which is about right as then that is about 2 and a half months to go through one 30ml bottle.

The thing I'm a bit freaked out about is the calculations I recently did which are...

Marlboro light have 0.8mg of nicotine per cigarette. I never smoked them down that far so I bet I smoked the equivalent of 0.6mg per cig. At 20 cigs in a pack, one pack a week, that's 12mg of nicotine a week.

With the 35mg e-salt juice, if I'm smoking 3ml a week, that's 105mg of nicotine or the equivalent of 175 cigs or 8.75 packs a week or a little over a pack a day.

HOLY CRAP! Is this really correct?

Now I know vaping is way more "healthier" than smoking, and moderate nicotine intake isn't all that bad from what I've read (similar to caffeine intake) as long as it's done in moderation, but does it boil down to that the majority of vapers that were smokers have probably not taken time to "do the math" like this and don't realize they are probably taking in WAY more nicotine than they did when they were smokers?

Hi and welcome,
We don't care, nicotine is just about harmless compared to inhaling products of combustion.
I vape about 10ml a day at 6mg/ml. That is 60mg of nicotine per day...and I could not care less.
So long as I'm not smoking, I'll vape as often and as much as needed to keep me away from the cancer sticks.

How is the PG sensitivity since switching to (potentially HIGH PG) salts based juices?

HTH
I

 

[Letitia]

The thing you need to research is how much of the nic is actually absorbed by your body. The numbers are pretty low. Do the research then come ask questions about what you don't understand.

 

[Bunnykiller]

and to add... you are inhaling 80% of each breath as nitrogen... 100% would kill you..

 

[Bunnykiller]

seriously tho.. youre not utilizing all the nic you inhale... if you are exhaling vapor, your exhaling unused nic.... probably 60-80 % isnt absorbed by the lungs.

 

[consultant]

Hi and welcome,
We don't care, nicotine is just about harmless compared to inhaling products of combustion.
I vape about 10ml a day at 6mg/ml. That is 60mg of nicotine per day...and I could not care less.
So long as I'm not smoking, I'll vape as often and as much as needed to keep me away from the cancer sticks.

How is the PG sensitivity since switching to (potentially HIGH PG) salts based juices?

HTH
I

No need to get defensive. I really don't care about anyone else's nicotine intake, just pointing out some interesting observations I've made and trying to make sure I wasn't making a mistake in my calculations.

The American Patriot 35mg salt based e-juice is 35% PG, 65% VG, so if you believe e-salt juices have to be all or close to all PG, you've been misinformed.

To each their own as far as what and how they want to vape. I don't judge. I think you meant "I don't care" and not "We don't care" as I don't think anyone here can speak for all vape users.

 

[Diver9543]

I wouldn't worry about it. As a matter of fact, I don't worry about it.

 

[consultant]

As far as the absorption issue, wouldn't the absorption be similar (not exact of course) between a cigaratte with x amount of nicotine and e-juice with x amount of nicotine? Or is there information out there that shows nicotine absorption from vaping is far lower than cigs. I would say (without having researched it) since you are getting so much more crap with the smoke it might even be less than e-juice. Or maybe due to the crap they but in the cigs it's more but I would venture to bet, whatever the difference is, it's not that different for the purposes of just a ballpark estimate on your nicotine absorption between vaping and smoking.

And for the record, this thing isn't about the pros and cons of vaping over smoking, (That's an easy argument as vaping is way better.), it's about nicotine intake. It's also not about what's "good and bad" as far as each individual's personal choice on their vaping habits. It's just about nicotine intake. That's all. Leave the other subjects to separate threads.

 

[consultant]

I wouldn't worry about it. As a matter of fact, I don't worry about it.

Yes, I'd say worrying about it sort of offsets the main reason a lot of people vape/smoke in the first place (to relax.) Things can be done in moderation but you sort of need a baseline to determine what IS moderation (for each individual.) There's negative health side effects to nicotine. I'm pro nicotine (in moderation), that's why I smoked and vape. But it doesn't have to be (as with most things) an "all or nothing" proposition to vape (or smoke for that matter.) It's doesn't have to be like "hey buddy, if you're concerned, then don't vape at all!" Making it black and white, you do or you don't (forget the amount) is oversimplifying it.

 

[Eskie]

The nicotine absorbed and the rate of absorption are quite different for comparing cigarettes to vaping, just as NRT with patches and gum are different. Combustible tobacco is the best delivery system for rapid, high rising absorption with vaping quite a bit behind.

Comparisons are unhelpful not only for that reason but because except in specific circumstances the total amount of nicotine intake has little difference to health. It's a bit like saying I used to have 1 espresso in the morning but changed to drop coffee and have 3 cups instead. The amount of caffeine extracted in those comparisons is inaccurate given the significant differences in the extraction method (as well as other caffeine like methyl xanthines released when the higher pressure of an espresso machine is taken into consideration).

My suggestion would be that as you were only a social smoker and now believe you are consuming far more in vape juice due to convenience, then setting up some rules to make it less convenient will allow you limit use to the level you prefer. Simple things like keeping your eGo in a different room than right next to you making you get up to actively get it, or other restrictions that fit your daily routine will allow you to lower your vaping intake to a level you are comfortable with for your personal choice in use.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Also, it is very possible to get lower nicotine salts... 3, 6, 12, 25... or mix the 35mg down.

 

[vapdivrr]

I think your doing great, your not smoking and vaping about the least I have seen here. 3mls per week is not that much at 35mg.....you have cut out smoking my friend, no easy task. No more tar, carbon monoxide and a thousand other terrible chemicals. I know it's hard to do, but I would think of all the good your doing except focusing on your nic absorption...not sure why, as everyone does it, but so many smoked cigs for years and years and never thought about nic, or didnt care, but as soon as one starts to vape, we all are so darn nic conscious.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[consultant]

I can see why your title is "ESF Guru" Excellent points! I don't have the scientific knowledge or information to discuss absorption rates. My calcs pointed out a personal, more than 8X increase in the amount of nicotine in the products I was smoking to the products I am vaping. Your example with the coffee is 3X. Are you saying the difference between caffeine absorption of espresso and drip coffee is like 100% (2X) different because of the extraction method? I'd find that hard to believe. Just like I'd find it hard to believe the nicotine absorption rate between cigarettes and e-juice is 2X let alone 8X. Any one have any actual numbers from studies?

I'm not going to try to come up with numbers just to try to justify some point but acknowledge what seems to be reasonable and what not. A 10%, 20%, 30%, even 50% higher absorption rate I wouldn't regard as not plausible. But a 100-900% difference, to then essentially say, vaping 8X more nicotine (or even 3X) than smoking (solely regarding nicotine absorption) is actually not that much different" raises eyebrows (at least mine, LOL.)

So essentially I can confirm my calculations are correct then, excluding the absorption factor which is much harder to put numbers to (which allows for ambiguity to try to prove or discount an observation.) That's really all the point I started the discussion for but hearing about people's experiences and insights is great!

The nicotine absorbed and the rate of absorption are quite different for comparing cigarettes to vaping, just as NRT with patches and him I'd different. Combustible tobacco is the best delivery system for rapid, high rising absorption with vaping quite a bit behind.

Comparisons are unhelpful not only for that reason but because except in specific circumstances the total amount of nicotine intake has little difference to health. It's a hit like saying I used to have 1 espresso in the morning but changed to drop coffee and have 3 cups instead. The amount of caffeine extracted in those comparisons is inaccurate given the significant differences in the extraction method (as well as other caffeine like methyl xanthines released when the higher pressure of an espresso machine is taken into consideration).

My suggestion would be that as you were only a social smoker and now believe you are consuming far more in vape juice due to convenience, then setting up dome rules to make it less convenient will allow you limit use to the level you prefer. Simple things like keeping your eGo in a different room than right next to you making you get up to actively get it, or other restrictions that fit your daily routine will allow you to lower your vaping intake to a level you are comfortable with for your personal choice in use.

 

[consultant]

Also, it is very possible to get lower nicotine salts... 3, 6, 12, 25... or mix the 35mg down.

I swear I searched far and wide for e-salt juice lower than 35mg and couldn't find any. Or maybe it was I couldn't find any that were at least 50% VG? Can you suggest some? I'll consider the mixing. I just noticed my vaping habit increasing and wanted to keep things at bay. I DID think about putting the vape in another room, or limiting myself to only certain times a day. The cig smoking was fairly self limiting due to the nasty taste/smell and the fact there is no way in hell I would do it in my house or car (not to mention the cancer concern always in the back of my mind.) Vaping is SOOO much better. It's amazing though how hard it is to get fellow smokers to switch! I tell them you just need to stick with it a few days to let your throat get used to the different feel of the hit and then you will NEVER go back and kick yourself for not switching a long time ago! But I know I'm preaching to the choir here on that.

On the mixing, I'd wonder if you CAN make your own e-salt juice with lower than say 25mg than why is it virtually non-existent (as far as I can tell). I had assumed it had something to do with a limitation in the difference of the chemistry between salt and freebase. (But this is probably for a different topic/thread - sorry.)

 

[Letitia]

I can see why your title is "ESF Guru" Excellent points! I don't have the scientific knowledge or information to discuss absorption rates. My calcs pointed out a personal, more than 8X increase in the amount of nicotine in the products I was smoking to the products I am vaping. Your example with the coffee is 3X. Are you saying the difference between caffeine absorption of espresso and drip coffee is like 100% (2X) different because of the extraction method? I'd find that hard to believe. Just like I'd find it hard to believe the nicotine absorption rate between cigarettes and e-juice is 2X let alone 8X. Any one have any actual numbers from studies?

I'm not going to try to come up with numbers just to try to justify some point but acknowledge what seems to be reasonable and what not. A 10%, 20%, 30%, even 50% higher absorption rate I wouldn't regard as not plausible. But a 100-900% difference, to then essentially say, vaping 8X more nicotine (or even 3X) than smoking is actually not that much different" raises eyebrows (at least mine, LOL.)

I fully understand the bias that is going to be present in this forum and expect this thread will get a lot of eye rolling and probably go sideways. You just need to pick through the noise.

So essentially I can confirm my calculations are correct then, excluding the absorption factor which is much harder to put numbers to I looks like.

Seems you've already made up your mind without doing any reading or any research period; so you have essentially wasted our time, thanks.

 

[consultant]

Seems you've already made up your mind without doing any reading or any research period; so you have essentially wasted our time, thanks.

Made up my mind about what specifically? Again who is "our" -- seems like a lot of people here feel they have the right to speak for others using terms like "we" and "our." I think people can speak for themselves.

 

[mattymatt82]

This is my very unscientific opinion, but I feel like I get less nicotine in my system than I did when I was smoking. I can chain vape and rarely, if ever feel any side effects, chain smoking on the other hand could make me feel a little woozy at times. After going a long period without smoking, I would get a head rush when I smoked a cig, I never get that head rush when I vape after going without it for a long period of time. Of course I vape .03mg nic, that may have something to do with it

 

[consultant]

This is my very unscientific opinion, but I feel like I get less nicotine in my system than I did when I was smoking. I can chain vape and rarely, if ever feel any side effects, chain smoking on the other hand could make me feel a little woozy at times. After going a long period without smoking, I would get a head rush when I smoked a cig, I never get that head rush when I vape after going without it for a long period of time. Of course I vape .03mg nic, that may have something to do with it

I never chain smoked (except maybe while on (OTHER STUFF) in college) so can't speak to the same experience but I'm wondering if maybe the difference you are describing has more to do with carbon monoxide in your system? Just my unscientific guess. Did you mean 3mg, not .03mg as that is basically no nicotine at all.

 

[jandrew]

The nicotine in combustible cigarettes is quickly absorbed in the lungs -- the very small particulate size in smoke achieves better penetration into the airways, while the nicotine in vapor (larger droplet size, relatively speaking, doesn't penetrate the lung airways as well) is better absorbed in the mucus membranes of the mouth/throat/nasal-passages. So, the primary mechanism of how nicotine gets into the blood stream is very different, making direct comparisons of nicotine intake from smoking and vaping less meaningful.

Furthermore, Juul's studies on nicotine plasma levels showed it took much higher nicotine levels in vaping to approximate cigarette smoking ... upwards of 50mg/ml were projected to approximate the rapidity and levels of nicotine plasma levels seen in cigarette smoking.

 

[F-machine]

When you buy a pack of smokes, IIRC, the nic content in mg that's printed on the packaging is the amount of nics absorbed by the cotton filter that they use inside their facility.

It's also not equal to how much nic your body absorb. So in theory, the nicotine content of a pack of regular smokes is way higher than what's printed on the packaging, plus tar and a gazillion of other chemicals. While the amount of nics printed on every bottle of e-juice is the amount of nic contained inside the bottle. And you don't absorb all of that, unless we inject it direct to our blood stream.