Vapor Shark

[Barry Badrinath]

Do they still only stock stuff that's certified Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, Diketone, etc. free?

Or has that gone out the window with some of the recent FDA stuff?

 

[Baditude]

I've never heard of them, but I am curious and confused by your comment and question "or has that gone out the window?" What "recent FDA stuff" would have affected their ingredients?

 

[chellie]

I've never heard of them, but I am curious and confused by your comment and question "or has that gone out the window?" What "recent FDA stuff" would have affected their ingredients?

A lot of companies would list their levels from the lab that certified levels of those ingredients. It is something I used to really look for and actually would still like to see.

This is the company I used to check
eVapor Testing - eLiquid Analysis | Enthalpy Analytical

Now with our good 'ole greedy big tobacco and government - they come up first on any searches. I have results saved from some ejuices I used to use. Before the fda regs, many e liquid companies used enthalpy and there were certain people (like me) that would only buy from companies that posted their results.

 

[chellie]

A lot of companies would list their levels from the lab that certified levels of those ingredients. It is something I used to really look for and actually would still like to see.

This is the company I used to check
eVapor Testing - eLiquid Analysis | Enthalpy Analytical

Now with our good 'ole greedy big tobacco and government - they come up first on any searches. I have results saved from some ejuices I used to use. Before the fda regs, many e liquid companies used enthalpy and there were certain people (like me) that would only buy from companies that posted their results.

Here's an example of one of their actual reports
http://www.modusvapors.com/testresults.pdf

I also used to primarily purchase from any vendors that were part of AEMSA MEMBERS and I know this may sound cynical but I trusted those results more than the governments.

There were a number of companies that I would not purchase from because of their levels of diacetyl and to this day I still won't.

 

[chellie]

Do they still only stock stuff that's certified Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, Diketone, etc. free?

Or has that gone out the window with some of the recent FDA stuff?

Sadly, it has more or less gone out the window.

 

[Barry Badrinath]

Sadly, it has more or less gone out the window.

It's a shame there aren't any good lists either on here or anywhere. I've been googling and searching these forums like crazy and although there's info, it's spotty for the most part, or requires you to dig through threads and websites and links and articles, etc.

The last few days I've at least found about a dozen e-juice companies who confirm through 3rd party testing they're free of diketones. From this point on I'm only ordering from those and others who confirm. I get the titles and vague tones in some of those articles a couple years ago were fear mongering and that they'll probably realize other chemicals are bad to vape as well, but I'd like to minimize the harm I'm doing as much as possible, or else why'd I even quit smoking?

No reason to knowingly inhale chemicals which are known to lead to stuff like COPD, even if they're in minuscule amounts compared to analogs. I remember sometimes we'd be at work in a hazardous environment if you didn't just wear a simple respirator and I'd refuse to go in until they were provided. One of the guys I worked with smoked as well and he'd always say to me, "All the cigarettes we smoke and you're worried about breathing this crap in?" And I'd reply to him, "Just because I smoke cigarettes doesn't mean I hang out at the top of a cooling tower at a nuclear power plant breathing in the byproduct every weekend.", or, "Just because I smoke cigarettes doesn't mean I want to do the backstroke in a room full of loose asbestos." Lol.

 

[Barry Badrinath]

I've never heard of them, but I am curious and confused by your comment and question "or has that gone out the window?" What "recent FDA stuff" would have affected their ingredients?

Yeah basically as Chellie is saying, a lot of companies who did third party testing or were third party tested would put the results on their sites for full disclosure, but since the new regs and proposed ones and just behind the scenes pressure from the FDA and other government watchdog groups, a lot of them have taken down their results and the such so even if the e-liquid company wants you to know they're "clean", they won't even advertise it anymore.

 

[Baditude]

Yeah basically as Chellie is saying, a lot of companies who did third party testing or were third party tested would put the results on their sites for full disclosure, but since the new regs and proposed ones and just behind the scenes pressure from the FDA and other government watchdog groups, a lot of them have taken down their results and the such so even if the e-liquid company wants you to know they're "clean", they won't even advertise it anymore.

Ok, I guess I wasn't aware of that. Good to know.

 

[chellie]

It's a shame there aren't any good lists either on here or anywhere. I've been googling and searching these forums like crazy and although there's info, it's spotty for the most part, or requires you to dig through threads and websites and links and articles, etc.

The last few days I've at least found about a dozen e-juice companies who confirm through 3rd party testing they're free of diketones. From this point on I'm only ordering from those and others who confirm. I get the titles and vague tones in some of those articles a couple years ago were fear mongering and that they'll probably realize other chemicals are bad to vape as well, but I'd like to minimize the harm I'm doing as much as possible, or else why'd I even quit smoking?

No reason to knowingly inhale chemicals which are known to lead to stuff like COPD, even if they're in minuscule amounts compared to analogs. I remember sometimes we'd be at work in a hazardous environment if you didn't just wear a simple respirator and I'd refuse to go in until they were provided. One of the guys I worked with smoked as well and he'd always say to me, "All the cigarettes we smoke and you're worried about breathing this crap in?" And I'd reply to him, "Just because I smoke cigarettes doesn't mean I hang out at the top of a cooling tower at a nuclear power plant breathing in the byproduct every weekend.", or, "Just because I smoke cigarettes doesn't mean I want to do the backstroke in a room full of loose asbestos." Lol.

I am not totally up on all the laws yet --still trying and still reading so I may not be fully on target but these are my views and opinions. AEMSA - link above - offers some additional protection because they do spot checks on their members who pay a membership fee to be a part of AEMSA and agree to certain things that are detailed on their site.

With the FDA regs, info seems to be kept close at hand and it is no longer available to us. This bothers me because there should be full transparency and not just blindly trusting what they say.

They have forced vape companies to spend lots of dollars to comply with certain things and it now seems to me like it is a big money machine and I do not trust that all of this "Criteria" is met and I highly doubt that the FDA has the tools to fully enforce. I am sure there is some good that comes out of it but if things are so regulated by the FDA why aren't lab results posted for each and every ejuice flavor? I guess I am a bit cynical of our government - I do not believe they have the public interests at heart as their first and foremost priority. I believe they are influenced by big money companies - not just in the e-cig arena but in many areas.

 

[Baditude]

To get e-liquid approved by the FDA, manufacturers have submit a $300 application for each flavor and each nic strength that they offer.

Say a manufacturer sells 40 flavors in 6 nic strenghs, that's 240 applications at $300 a piece.

And of course there is no guarantee than any of them will be approved, so if a company offers dozens of flavors and scores of nic strengths, that's a lot of money for a small mom & pop business to put out. And most e-liquid manufacturers can be classified as small mom & pop businesses.

I'm not saying that our e-liquids should not be regulated in some way, but the system chosen makes it very difficult and expensive for the small business owner.

 

[puffon]

My understanding is the FDA is not testing any juice. Yet.
You have to register each product being sold, and nothing is to be on the current market that was not being sold prior to Aug 8, 2016, without an approved PMTA.
Deadline for the completed PMTA was moved to Aug 8, 2022.
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