Verified Member Vote - Trader Option

[Racehorse]

Why anyone would delete feedback left for somebody who didn't reciprocate can only be seen as *retaliatory*. Revengeful.

Leave feedback honestly and with a sincere heart.

Making it into "tit for tat" removes the whole point of feedback in the first place.

 

[aikanae1]

Ok, it seems maybe my wording was not quite clear.

If this feature is enabled feedback WILL NOT be mandatory. What will be mandatory is, if you want to receive feedback it will be mandatory to return feedback. In other words, "one good turn deserves another". So those who do not want to leave feedback, you still don't have to but you will not receive feedback, then again you probably don't care. The only difference with the new system is, you won't receive undeserved feedback. Before you get all upset, I'm not saying someone is undeserving because of their reputation, only that if you can't reciprocate feedback you do not deserve feedback.

We recently started allowing members that leave feedback that get none in return to report and request feedback be removed but no matter the decision here this will no longer be available. So to offset this change we thought this feature would help.

So to sum this up, leaving feedback won't be mandatory but receiving feedback will require you to reciprocate the feedback. So nothing really changes for those who choose to not use the feedback system.

That clarifies a lot. Basically this is also a way of opting out of the feedback system, so if a person isn't interested then someone won't get their feelings hurt if it's not reciprocated. Am I understanding that?

Occasionally, I'll go to someone's profile to invite them as friends and find they have turned it off and have no friends listed. I think people should have that option.

I've been here long enough that I tend to view ECF as a small world, I guess. Generally if I want to know more about a seller, I don't go to the feedback section but I'll review posts and other associated information, including Google. As a user, I haven't run into shadey deals but I don't want to discount the behind the scenes efforts (that I know nothing about) by mods that have made it a safe place.

Currently, many of the sellers are known due to activites elsewhere on ECF and I like that. It's possible to use ECF only for buying and selling opportunities, but I haven't seen that happen very often.

My only complaint about the feedback system is it's not very specific. "Excellent host" or "Great seller" doesn't tell me a lot.I also think a host or seller should have a chance to respond to negative feedback. I've seen some pretty petty complaints from time to time and that way it gives someone else enough information to make up their own mind.

 

[aikanae1]

I have not left feed back for a member because I didn't have anything nice to say about what I bought from them. Maybe their idea of something being very nice is not my idea of something nice. I look at things like this " What goes around comes around" and " Some thing are better left unsaid. I don't think we should have option to delete feedback.

I've wondered if a standardized condition rating might be helpful but that's OT.

 

[gpjoe]

I have not left feed back for a member because I didn't have anything nice to say about what I bought from them. Maybe their idea of something being very nice is not my idea of something nice. I look at things like this " What goes around comes around" and " Some thing are better left unsaid. I don't think we should have option to delete feedback.

I guess I view it differently. If a "bad" seller doesn't know, he/she will never have a chance to improve. As with any internet transaction, if I were unhappy with a deal silence would be the last option I would choose. The first would be a polite PM to the other party to allow the situation to be fixed in a way that was agreeable to both sides. I certainly would not be worried about hurting somebody's feelings when I am spending my money with an expectation that the item and service will be as described.

Maybe the seller is overestimating the condition of the item. Maybe they really don't understand how to rate something or have an incorrect perspective of condition. That person needs to be told or more of the same may follow.

If I received an item that was clearly misrepresented and the seller failed to respond to my concerns via a private "conversation" I would have no problem leaving negative feedback. Remaining silent would be a disservice to everyone here that uses the Classified forum IMO.

 

[tmcase]

I rely heavily on the feedback system. If a seller has several negatives I won't buy from them no matter how much I want the item. Same goes for ebay. I don't have the time or the gumption to read a sellers posts to see if they are a stand up person. So for me personally, I would like to see feedback mandatory.

I realize there are some people that would rather not leave feedback than leave a negative but this is an injustice to the members. We need to know who we can trust.

 

[j0ker]

OK so it looks like the majority is for enabling the option so we will give it a try.

Like I said before, nothing really changes for those of you who choose not to use feedback, just continue to not give if and you won't receive.

Keep in mind this is a 30 day trial, mainly because we don't know what sort of issues we might run into. So I'll keep this thread open for anyone that has issues they need to report. In 30 days or so we will announce whether the change is permanent or not.

 

[rhammer186]

I have mixed feelings about this - I understand the intention for making the positive feedback required, but also understand issues brought up in this discussion. While we all hope that every transaction is cut and clear, there will be some that require some head scratching and lots of thought before submitting an opinion - be it good, bad, or neutral.

Example --- I received a positive feedback from a seller yesterday but have not received my purchase yet which means I will be holding off my feedback return until it arrives. I have been a "model" buyer, by communicating well and paying instantly. This deserves a 'positive' star regardless of the end result of the purchase. If I receive the package and it is not as described but still in good condition, I may want to choose to opt out of leaving feedback since the condition of an item is based on perspective. I feel that I still deserve the positive feedback for my end of the deal since I do believe that it is important for future transaction. Should my good behavior be unnoticed just because the seller graded the item slightly higher/lower than I would have?

One thing I would want added if positive feedback is required, is to make the reminder more obvious. Perhaps on the users profile page/trading stats. While the "pending" feedback is displayed only to the user it doesn't show that its pending or that feedback is still required for that transaction. This can be easily forgotten/overlooked since the notification itself of the mandatory feedback is buried in the alert pages. If the purchase arrived days after the initial feedback was left and depending on how many alerts you get, you'd have to sift through pages to see it.

Thank you @j0ker for all the hard work you do!

 

[mikepetro]

I find this terribly inconvenient. A buyer left me feedback, I tried to return it, and the system is making me wait 9 hours.

If that be the case many feedbacks will get forgotten about.....

 

[spartanstew]

I think you need to @j0ker on that one.

 

[Phone Guy]

I find this terribly inconvenient. A buyer left me feedback, I tried to return it, and the system is making me wait 9 hours.

If that be the case many feedbacks will get forgotten about.....

View attachment 456970

I literally came to report the same thing Mike... I was leaving you feedback, even before my package arrived as I have no doubt in your reputation But I am unable to leave feedback for 10 hours or something...

I have no issue with feedback for feedback, but having to wait ### amount of time is inconvenient and honestly, I feel people will forget too. Feedback should be able to be left WHENEVER the person wants to leave it.........we all have real lives and you know the old saying, out of sight, out of mind.

EDIT: At the risk of sounding rude... Why is the world is there a TIMER on the feedback system? If I want to leave feedback for someone, even before I receive my item, that's my choice. It my money and my decision to do so. Having a timer system makes no sense. It doesn't protect anyone, all it does it make it inconvenient for ME, now having to remember to do leave the feedback at a later time.

 

[mikepetro]

In the above post ^^^^^^ I had left him the initial feedback. He was trying to reciprocate.

 

[Phone Guy]

Well I am here to report 2 other problems with feedback.

1) I am trying to leave feedback for a person who never replied in the for sale thread, which is now closed. I entered the url, typed in all the fields, and it said I can not leave feedback for that thread unless I created the thread, which I did.

2) On another deal (completely separate) I entered all the fields, clicked on submit, it said my comment was too short, so I corrected the length of the comment, and now says I have to wait 10 hours before I can submit feedback.

I am reporting these bugs, so you'll know about them and hopefully resolve them. Obviously restricting feedback options (IMHO) is more hassle... ANYWAY: now you know about 2 issues. On the first one, the buyer never replied directly in the thread, he PM'd me directly where we finalized the sale. And now I can not leave him feedback at all.

 

[Racehorse]

Aikanae1: "My only complaint about the feedback system is it's not very specific. "Excellent host" or "Great seller" doesn't tell me a lot"

Not sure what you mean Aikanae1.

Somebody sells me a REO, I recieve it in reasonable time with tracking, it works, I got what I paid for. "Great seller" would cover it nicely for a feedback comment.

Nobody wants to write an essay. It's a simple business transaction.....either you were pleased or you weren't.

When you get to the level of transactions that I and some other people have, that member becomes a "known quantity", i.e. 100-150 transactions that are positive, there's not much to say. You can pretty much count on them sending you stuff w/out problems..... "thanks, very pleased" would be fine for feedback?

I guess I don't know what you mean by "specific". Or maybe I am misunderstanding

 

[Mrs C]

Well I am here to report 2 other problems with feedback.

1) I am trying to leave feedback for a person who never replied in the for sale thread, which is now closed. I entered the url, typed in all the fields, and it said I can not leave feedback for that thread unless I created the thread, which I did.

2) On another deal (completely separate) I entered all the fields, clicked on submit, it said my comment was too short, so I corrected the length of the comment, and now says I have to wait 10 hours before I can submit feedback.

I am reporting these bugs, so you'll know about them and hopefully resolve them. Obviously restricting feedback options (IMHO) is more hassle... ANYWAY: now you know about 2 issues. On the first one, the buyer never replied directly in the thread, he PM'd me directly where we finalized the sale. And now I can not leave him feedback at all.

Problem #1 is covered in the forum issues thread here Forum issues post [HASHTAG]#290[/HASHTAG] in short if they did not post in the thread the system does not know there was a transaction so it will not allow the feedback

 

[Phone Guy]

Problem #1 is covered in the forum issues thread here Forum issues post [HASHTAG]#290[/HASHTAG] in short if they did not post in the thread the system does not know there was a transaction so it will not allow the feedback

So what about the ability to post feedback for deals that happen via PM?

I know I've done deals via pm before. You may read someone just got a new "this" to replace an old "that", and a PM conversation starts about what they might do with the old "that" and before you know a deal has been struck.

 

[skydragon]

All I can say is please do not turn into another FeeBay. There system is flawed to say the least. I have never received a negative from anywhere but it is still a flawed system and it seems like you want to emulate it.

 

[Mrs C]

I know when it happened to me the day the forum came back up I raised the issue. Once we figured out the why, Joker was kind enough to get it resolved. I was the buyer and the item was listed on the classies. Your best bet would be to contact him or one of the classies mods.

 

[gpjoe]

...

1) I am trying to leave feedback for a person who never replied in the for sale thread, which is now closed. I entered the url, typed in all the fields, and it said I can not leave feedback for that thread unless I created the thread, which I did.

...the buyer never replied directly in the thread, he PM'd me directly where we finalized the sale. And now I can not leave him feedback at all.

I am having the very same problem.

 

[mikepetro]

I can think of a big loophole in this Quid Pro Quo thing. This exact type of situation just happened to me on an Aquarium forum.

If I leave NEGATIVE Feedback for a seller, in my case because they missed two promised shipment dates and then stopped communicating, then all the seller has to do is NOT reciprocate my feedback and the Negative Feedback wont show on his profile. Along the same line, if he "thinks" he "might" get negative feedback, he damn sure wont initiate any, the end result being that he escapes ever having any negative feedback show up.

Soooooooo, if I am a Seller and force others to initiate feedback (as many are doing now) then all I have to do is NOT reciprocate any negative ones and I am off the hook.

If I am the buyer, whats the use in initiating negative feedback, knowing that all the seller has to do is NOT reciprocate and my feedback wont show. The Seller is going to get off scott-free regardless!

This whole thing weakens the integrity of the Feedback concept IMHO. Why bother using it if someone can simply evade any negative stuff.

 

[spartanstew]

I can think of a big loophole in this Quid Pro Quo thing. This exact type of situation just happened to me on an Aquarium forum.

If I leave NEGATIVE Feedback for a seller, in my case because they missed two promised shipment dates and then stopped communicating, then all the seller has to do is NOT reciprocate my feedback and the Negative Feedback wont show on his profile. Along the same line, if he "thinks" he "might" get negative feedback, he damn sure wont initiate any, the end result being that he escapes ever having any negative feedback show up.

Soooooooo, if I am a Seller and force others to initiate feedback (as many are doing now) then all I have to do is NOT reciprocate any negative ones and I am off the hook.

If I am the buyer, whats the use in initiating negative feedback, knowing that all the seller has to do is NOT reciprocate and my feedback wont show. The Seller is going to get off scott-free regardless!

This whole thing weakens the integrity of the Feedback concept IMHO. Why bother using it if someone can simply evade any negative stuff.

**Note this applies to positive feedback only, neutral and negative will post immediately with no required return feedback**