Requiring buyers to be "verified" in the classifieds is over-kill!

[progg]

That is a possibility j0ker is always looking for ways to improve the classifieds and protect members. In the end nobody reads the rules let alone the stickies -- but it is worth a try

a better? thought : a due dilligence precaution regarding pricing in the software 'page title' of each page at classies.

sorry op for going ot. i will su now.

 

[tiburonfirst]

if only people would read!

 

[Adam the Aussie]

I don't buy or sell in the classifieds, but surely a seller can ask whatever price they like. If it's too high move on, no need to comment, just look for the item somewhere else.

 

[B2L]

I have not bought or sold in the classifieds either but wanted to be able to if something I really wanted to have went up on the block. The verification process could not have been easier, filling out the form took all of 2 minutes using the PP option. Anyone being put off by having to be verified, you probably dont want to buy from/ sell to anyway. I appreciate what Joker and the mods do to make ECF a safe place. Its a fine line between a safe forum and a police state and I feel that it is handled very well here, far better than our govt most of the time. As far as pricing, the market will dictate, price too high?, dont buy it.

 

[progg]

Don (j0ker) and his team have done a fantastic job with the classies. It's everything we hoped for when the project to fix it was first discussed.

If there is a 10% or even 20% drop in activity, that is a small price to pay for the fact it is now better organized and above all safer. It had big problems before with rip-offs, and something had to be done.

The new form-based system means the old chaos has gone, as well. I suppose it could all be made prettier, but there is always another job, and then another...

As everyone has said, this latest trend to offer things at ridiculous prices is a bit strange. But in the end, the market decides - if it sells, well, the price must have been right. The only minor worry is that an inexperienced member who didn't research it might assume that an asking price of retail, or even retail + 25% or whatever, must be correct if something is offered for sale here. It would be nice if we could somehow ensure that newer members did not pay over the odds, but that may not be possible. 'Do your price research' is about as far as we can go, I guess.

The thing is, retail or higher is actually a fair price for items you can't buy - such as some kinds of tanks or rebuildable atties. I'd like one or two of those things myself but I can't get one...

I agree with the others' notion in this thread of buyer beware.

Also agree with rolygate's minor worry of inexperienced members [often overwhelmed - my words] paying over the odds, thus my suggestions. No complaint intended.

 

[mwa102464]

The new rules in the Classifieds where not only needed but its a much more stable environment now with less flaming, more secure purchasing and selling and takes out the shenanigans that where going on. As far as price goes anything and everything in this world sells for what the market bares. Hard to get items, new sold out items, and collectors items are going to sell for higher prices a lot of the time, people will always pay more for something like this as well as a lower price for a less desirable or easy to get item, that's just business. Being able to purchasing knowing someone went through the system to become verified is a much more secure feeling for buyers to purchase something which is a great thing. I think Joker and all involved spent numerous hours changing all they did and putting all the new rules into effect they just did a super Job, Kudos to everyone involved to making the classifieds a safe, more secure, and just a better place all the way around.

 

[Murdock Ruml]

All I'm saying is what's the point of making us get verified with PP to sell ecig items when PP doesn't allow the sell of ecig items.

 

[Killjoy1]

Paypal isn't the only method available, there are currently a handful of other ways to become "verified". It makes sense to use PP as one of those options since most of us use it already (heck, it's the most commonly used payment method for classified transactions from what I've seen) and so don't have to make any extra effort beyond filling in the verification form.

 

[NC_Fog]

The PP verification is for reference purposes of your good standing. I used Ebay...You know, kinda like a background check.

Marty

 

[progg]

Paypal isn't the only method available, there are currently a handful of other ways to become "verified". It makes sense to use PP as one of those options since most of us use it already (heck, it's the most commonly used payment method for classified transactions from what I've seen) and so don't have to make any extra effort beyond filling in the verification form.

And, j0ker has offered an open inbox to other verification suggestions as well.

He answered me promptly and professionally. Gave me quite a bit of feedback. It wasn't a 'canned' response.

 

[Murdock Ruml]

I have also noticed an increase in the number of PP accounts that have been frozen due to buying/selling ecig items since we have been required to be verified.

I'm not saying it is directly tied together. Just something I noticed.

 

[j0ker]

The new rules in the Classifieds where not only needed but its a much more stable environment now with less flaming, more secure purchasing and selling and takes out the shenanigans that where going on. As far as price goes anything and everything in this world sells for what the market bares. Hard to get items, new sold out items, and collectors items are going to sell for higher prices a lot of the time, people will always pay more for something like this as well as a lower price for a less desirable or easy to get item, that's just business. Being able to purchasing knowing someone went through the system to become verified is a much more secure feeling for buyers to purchase something which is a great thing. I think Joker and all involved spent numerous hours changing all they did and putting all the new rules into effect they just did a super Job, Kudos to everyone involved to making the classifieds a safe, more secure, and just a better place all the way around.

Thank you, your comments are very much appreciated!

All I'm saying is what's the point of making us get verified with PP to sell ecig items when PP doesn't allow the sell of ecig items.

Yeah, PayPal was one of the most obvious options due it being so widely used on the forum (as well as other locations). Yeah it kinda pisses me off that they forbid use for e-cigs but keep in mind this was mandated on them by the FDA, not by PayPal. I try to believe if they had their way, they could care less what we bought using our PayPal account, they are in it for the money. At least that makes me feel a little better

I have also noticed an increase in the number of PP accounts that have been frozen due to buying/selling ecig items since we have been required to be verified.

I'm not saying it is directly tied together. Just something I noticed.

I haven't heard of any closures but can confidently say that PayPal has no idea why I access these accounts for verification. The way I do it there's no way they could know why, I do this purposefully to prevent any ties to my reasoning. The last thing I want to do is jeopardize someone's account.

 

[Murdock Ruml]

I haven't heard of any closures but can confidently say that PayPal has no idea why I access these accounts for verification. The way I do it there's no way they could know why, I do this purposefully to prevent any ties to my reasoning. The last thing I want to do is jeopardize someone's account.

let's see, there's zen~ who sells the zenesis. His got shut down. And that was after having issues with his credit card processing company.

Then there's rusalka, the guy running the scubamini CO-OP. his funds got froze and risks a $2500 fine.


Im really not trying to cause problems, and not saying this happened to them because they were verified. Just wanted to let people know that there are risks when using PP. The fact that one might of used PP to be verified here on ECF might give them false security that the sell of ecig items is allowed on PP.

All online purchases are dangerous and just because someone is verified doesn't change the fact that you are taking a risk when buying anything online.

 

[elfstone]

There's always a risk. I guess all it takes is some buyer who doesn't like to read and who puts "payment for e-cigarette bought from ECF" in the Paypal communication...

However, both those closure incidents had some special circumstances surrounding them that point away from the verification process as the culprit. Just sayin'.

 

[MonsterTKE]

That's true too Kill...about the buyer claiming to never have received item and filing with PP lol...that's a good point!

And what exactly is being verified going to do to stop that? Reporting to the "authorities"? Lol, yeah, if you want to be laughed at. A buyer is going to come here and buy his stuff, if he wants to file a paypal dispute there isn't a thing you can do about it as a seller, other than send it with signature confirmation. So a one off buyer is deterred by this how?

Sellers being verified is a bit more sensible, but still pointless. As I said, does anyone think that ECF is more able to report fraud than the person being ripped off or paypal?

 

[MonsterTKE]

I haven't heard of any closures but can confidently say that PayPal has no idea why I access these accounts for verification. The way I do it there's no way they could know why, I do this purposefully to prevent any ties to my reasoning. The last thing I want to do is jeopardize someone's account.

One of my freelance developers is a DBA working for paypal, I think you underestimate the amount of data that that company collects and the breadth of their api. If you are making API requests to multiple accounts from the same user agent or IP, I would be willing to bet that a red flag was raised and someone looked into it.



Unless you are using multiple VPNs and/or spoofing your MAC address and IP, there is all kinds of shady things they can do with your data.

*Edit-This actually got me to thinking.
It would be rather trivial to write an API handler that redirects to a separate site to handle calls to the API for payment processing, thus avoiding the use of paypal Buttons etc. while obfuscating the source of the API requests. The downside of this is the requirement to write essentially a custom shopping cart. Im also sure that this violates their terms of service anyway.

*Edit 2

I just went and read the manual for Adaptive Accounts API, correct me if I am wrong but dont you have to send your API credentials in the request header to access this feature? If that is the case and this is the API you are using, assume that all of the requests you have made are sitting in a table somewhere.

 

[tiburonfirst]

And what exactly is being verified going to do to stop that? Reporting to the "authorities"? Lol, yeah, if you want to be laughed at. A buyer is going to come here and buy his stuff, if he wants to file a paypal dispute there isn't a thing you can do about it as a seller, other than send it with signature confirmation. So a one off buyer is deterred by this how?

Sellers being verified is a bit more sensible, but still pointless. As I said, does anyone think that ECF is more able to report fraud than the person being ripped off or paypal?

well, apparently just the process of going through verification has deterred those people out to make a quick hit. as joker said before there never will be a guarantee that people won't get scammed. but ------ those fly by nights who collected multiple times on a nonexistent item for sale seem to be a thing of the past atm; and that's all that matters.

 

[rolygate]

If you are making API requests to multiple accounts from the same user agent or IP, I would be willing to bet that a red flag was raised and someone looked into it.

The verification requests don't come from ECF or any domain connected to it or connected to ecigs.

 

[j0ker]

let's see, there's zen~ who sells the zenesis. His got shut down. And that was after having issues with his credit card processing company.

Then there's rusalka, the guy running the scubamini CO-OP. his funds got froze and risks a $2500 fine.


Im really not trying to cause problems, and not saying this happened to them because they were verified. Just wanted to let people know that there are risks when using PP. The fact that one might of used PP to be verified here on ECF might give them false security that the sell of ecig items is allowed on PP.

All online purchases are dangerous and just because someone is verified doesn't change the fact that you are taking a risk when buying anything online.

zen~ is a supplier and can't and didn't go through the verification process.

CO-OPs are a magnet for PayPal to investigate. Large sums of funds incoming is a flapping red flag.

We've never claimed becoming verified would be the end all of scamming or members losing money, in fact it's been stated that it is only meant to be a deterrent. It's the buyers responsibility ultimately to protect themselves, we are just trying to help by removing the "fly-by-night" scammers. Before the process of verifications there were as many as 5 fraud reports per month. Now, since the verification process, none in 6 months. Is it a perfect system, no, is going to eliminate scams, probably not. It's the best tool we have currently and it's working so far.

One of my freelance developers is a DBA working for paypal, I think you underestimate the amount of data that that company collects and the breadth of their api. If you are making API requests to multiple accounts from the same user agent or IP, I would be willing to bet that a red flag was raised and someone looked into it.



Unless you are using multiple VPNs and/or spoofing your MAC address and IP, there is all kinds of shady things they can do with your data.

*Edit-This actually got me to thinking.
It would be rather trivial to write an API handler that redirects to a separate site to handle calls to the API for payment processing, thus avoiding the use of paypal Buttons etc. while obfuscating the source of the API requests. The downside of this is the requirement to write essentially a custom shopping cart. Im also sure that this violates their terms of service anyway.

*Edit 2

I just went and read the manual for Adaptive Accounts API, correct me if I am wrong but dont you have to send your API credentials in the request header to access this feature? If that is the case and this is the API you are using, assume that all of the requests you have made are sitting in a table somewhere.

There is no API involved on our end. The request are handled manually and from my personal PayPal account and I load their verification status. Can they detect the increase of my traffic? I'm sure they have but in no way can they attribute it to ECF. Keep in mind I've processed well over 3,000 verifications and nothing adverse yet.

You mention the lack of success when reporting mail fraud using the information obtained from the verification, the thing is, it's better than not having any information at all.