Very low resistance in a regulated mod: problems?

[KurtVD]

Im waiting for wires that I’ve ordered, but in the meantime I’m stuck with 30Ga NI200 if I want to TC vape. Unfortunately my rta’s posts wouldn’t hold such a thin wire (it just slipped out), so I made Clapton’s out of it, but there was only room for 5 wraps, which gave a resistance of 0.07 at room temperature. I’ve set it up for TC, it works and the flavor is good, but I’ve read a few times that low resistance is not a good thing. Is that only a problem in mechanical mods, because it draws a lot more power and could overheat the battery if it isn’t charged enough? I guess in a regulated mod there’s also more drain on the battery, but since it’s controlled by a chip, it can’t get to dangerous levels, right?

 

[QcVaper]

Although you're usually fine with a regulated mod, depending on your battery it's still a safe bet to keep them at about 60W each (or about 120W for a dual battery mod for example)

i doubt they'd explode but it's just better for your cells.
Resistance wise, if your mod reads it use it imo (even though that to me is much too low)

 

[Eskie]

Depends on the mod. Some are rated down to 0.05 ohm in temp control. Ni always comes is low, and is commonly built to resistance of 0.15 or 0.1 ohm.

Low resistance coils are primarily a concern with mechs. With a reliable temp control device, you should be safe so long as you're within spec.

What kind of Clapton did you build with 30G Ni and what tank are you using that only allowed you to fit 5 wraps?

 

[KurtVD]

Although you're usually fine with a regulated mod, depending on your battery it's still a safe bet to keep them at about 60W each (or about 120W for a dual battery mod for example)

i doubt they'd explode but it's just better for your cells.
Resistance wise, if your mod reads it use it imo (even though that to me is much too low)

It’s an iStick Pico 75W, so single battery.
Why is it better for the battery to set such a high wattage? Even if I could, I wouldn’t want to, because that would produce a very hot vapor, wouldn’t it? But in Arctic Fox, the maximum wattage is limited by the resistance, eg with 0.07 Ohm, I can try to set whatever I want, it won’t accept any number higher than 33.9 Watts. Incidentally, this is about the wattage I was using before TC, so I’m ok with that.
I was thinking the most important thing is to keep the battery well charged, to make it live longer?

 

[QcVaper]

It’s an iStick Pico 75W, so single battery.
Why is it better for the battery to set such a high wattage? Even if I could, I wouldn’t want to, because that would produce a very hot vapor, wouldn’t it? But in Arctic Fox, the maximum wattage is limited by the resistance, eg with 0.07 Ohm, I can try to set whatever I want, it won’t accept any number higher than 33.9 Watts. Incidentally, this is about the wattage I was using before TC, so I’m ok with that.
I was thinking the most important thing is to keep the battery well charged, to make it live longer?

What i mean is that a single 18650 (not all of them ofc but the most common) are only 20 amps which when you do the math comes to about 60 watts per cell, again i'm only saying to NOT EXCEED this wattage as it can damage your cells.

For the more complicated parts you'll have to ask someone with more knowledge
I barely ever go above 40 watts myself these days (doing 28w on my pulse 80w right now)
Also batteries are a bit more complicated to keep in good shape, it's mostly about charging them outside a mod and not overheating them.

 

[KurtVD]

What i mean is that a single 18650 (not all of them ofc but the most common) are only 20 amps which when you do the math comes to about 60 watts per cell, again i'm only saying to NOT EXCEED this wattage as it can damage your cells.

For the more complicated parts you'll have to ask someone with more knowledge
I barely ever go above 40 watts myself these days (doing 28w on my pulse 80w right now)
Also batteries are a bit more complicated to keep in good shape, it's mostly about charging them outside a mod and not overheating them.

Ok, thanks for clarifying that.

I have some LiIon battery experience with RC helicopters and drones, which also draw a lot of power, and I can say I have a really good track record of keeping batteries in good shape for a very long time and a lot of cycles, hopefully this will translate into this field. What I know is that if you draw a lot of power from a battery that is only charged to about 30-40%, it will heat up a lot more than if it is fully charged. That’s why I never go below 30% with such applications, and it has served me well so far.

 

[KurtVD]

What kind of Clapton did you build with 30G Ni and what tank are you using that only allowed you to fit 5 wraps?

I don’t know how you would call them, I just wrapped one NI200 30Ga wire around the other NI200 30Ga wire tightly (while spinning it with a drilling machine). The RTA I’m using is the Vandy Vape Berserker Mini. I like it but it has a small deck, plus there’s the problem that the posts don’t hold 30GA wire...

 

[Eskie]

Sounds like you made a twisted coil. Generally for a Clapton you have a larger core wire with a smaller outer wire spun around it, ending up looking like a guitar string. Even twisted 30G is pretty small so I'm surprised you couldn't get another wrap in there.

Regardless, as long as the mod supports the resistance you're OK. With a wire that small, even twisted, it won't take much power to heat it up.

 

[KurtVD]

Sounds like you made a twisted coil. Generally for a Clapton you have a larger core wire with a smaller outer wire spun around it, ending up looking like a guitar string. Even twisted 30G is pretty small so I'm surprised you couldn't get another wrap in there.

Regardless, as long as the mod supports the resistance you're OK. With a wire that small, even twisted, it won't take much power to heat it up.

No, they’re not just twisted together, I did use one as a core wire and spin the other one around it, sorry for not stating that correctly the first time. I think this still qualifies as Clapton, even though they’re both the same diameter?

 

[Don29palms]

Just to clarify You cannot use NI200 in wattage mode. You have to use it in temp control mode ONLY.

 

[Eskie]

No, they’re not just twisted together, I did use one as a core wire and spin the other one around it, sorry for not stating that correctly the first time. I think this still qualifies as Clapton, even though they’re both the same diameter?

Well yes, that would be a Clapton, just an unusual one and pretty impressive that you could even spin it with a 30G core. That's tiny by my big, clumsy finger standards.

Most important question after safety, how does it vape?

 

[KurtVD]

Just to clarify You cannot use NI200 in wattage mode. You have to use it in temp control mode ONLY.

Thanks, I know, that’s what I got it for. I’m waiting for SS316 that I’ve ordered, but in the meantime that’s all I have.

Well yes, that would be a Clapton, just an unusual one and pretty impressive that you could even spin it with a 30G core. That's tiny by my big, clumsy finger standards.

Most important question after safety, how does it vape?

Hehe...I did break it a few times before I managed to set it up in a way that it was possible. I have no dedicated equipment at all, so I used one of my feet to stabilize everything since I needed both of my hands to do the drilling and the spinning. But I felt it was necessary, since I was already TC vaping with my RDA and loving it, and I really wanted to have my RTA in TC mode as well.
To your question: It vapes surprisingly well, it tastes just as good as before with the KA1 wire and 0.5 Ohms. I’ve read that some people don’t like the taste of NI, but I have no problem with it. I’m just a little unsure about toxins, I guess I should read up on that.

 

[Baditude]

I was thinking the most important thing is to keep the battery well charged, to make it live longer?

I'm not sure what you meant to say here. Yes, a fully charged battery will perform for a longer period of time on that charge cycle in the mod compared to a partially charged battery.

However, our best option to extend a battery's life is to have our batteries spend as little time as possible fully charged and charge them just before using them. This usually isn't very convenient but it does extend battery life.

You don't want to use a "trickle charger". These chargers attempt to keep the battery fully charged to 4.2 volts until the time you are ready to use them. Keeping a battery at 4.2 volts is unhealthy for the battery if your intent is for longer battery life. It's best to allow a fully charged battery to naturally drop to 3.9 - 4.1 volts until you are ready to use it.

Regulated mods have a low voltage cutoff, meaning when the battery falls to a certain voltage level in the mod it will automatically shut off to prevent over-discharging the battery. While stopping at 3.4V, 3.6V, or even higher might extend battery life a bit you would be missing out on a lot of additional vaping time that you could use before needing to recharge. That additional vaping time can be enjoyed every day for, at most, just the cost of one extra set of batteries a year. Stopping at these higher voltages won't hurt the battery though. Just let the batteries sit for an hour before charging to see what their true resting voltage is when deciding how low you want their voltage to go in your mod.

How can we extend the life of our batteries?

What i mean is that a single 18650 (not all of them ofc but the most common) are only 20 amps which when you do the math comes to about 60 watts per cell, again i'm only saying to NOT EXCEED this wattage as it can damage your cells.

What QcVaper was attempting to explain, I think, was a regulated mod's total wattage output is limited by the amp rating of the battery used and the maximum wattage setting you use.


WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

-If you use a good quality 15 amp CDR battery like the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6, then you are good up to 45 watts per battery; 90 watts using two; 135 watts with three batteries.

-If you use a good quality 20 amp CDR battery like the LG HG2 or Samsung 25R then you are good for 60 watts per battery. If using a 2-battery regulated mod, you're good for 120 watts as you have two batteries. If you are using a 3-battery mod, you're good for 180.

-If you use a single 25 amp CDR battery like the Sony VTC5A, then you are good for 75 watts per battery, 150 watts for two batteries, and 225 watts with three.

-If you use a single 30 amp CDR battery like the LG HB6 you are good up to 90 watts; with a pair of 30 amp CDR batteries you could safely do 180 watts.


​

Battery Basics for Mods: The Definative Battery Guide for Vaping
Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries Part 1

 

[Eskie]

The whole toxin thing is more about potential harm if you end up kicked out to wattage and overheat either Ni or Ti, and even that is more theoretical than proven.

SS is the perfect TC wire for me. Easy to work with, considered safe in either wattage or TC which is big plus, and higher resistance than Ni so your coils aren't always on the edge of the low end. And the taste is excellent. Some people state it tastes better than compared to other wires like Kanthal, but it seems the same as Kanthal to me.

Enjoy your vape and see how the SS stuff works out for you when that arrives. Sounds like all is well in your world.

 

[KurtVD]

I'm not sure what you meant to say here. Yes, a fully charged battery will perform for a longer period of time on that charge cycle in the mod compared to a partially charged battery.

However, our best option to extend a battery's life is to have our batteries spend as little time as possible fully charged and charge them just before using them. This usually isn't very convenient but it does extend battery life.

Regulated mods have a low voltage cutoff, meaning when the battery falls to a certain voltage level in the mod it will automatically shut off to prevent over-discharging the battery. While stopping at 3.4V, 3.6V, or even higher might extend battery life a bit you would be missing out on a lot of additional vaping time that you could use before needing to recharge. That additional vaping time can be enjoyed every day for, at most, just the cost of one extra set of batteries a year. Stopping at these higher voltages won't hurt the battery though. Just let the batteries sit for an hour before charging to see what their true resting voltage is when deciding how low you want their voltage to go in your mod.

How can we extend the life of our batteries?



What QcVaper was attempting to explain, I think, was a regulated mod's total wattage output is limited by the amp rating of the battery and the maximum wattage setting used.


WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

-If you use a good quality 15 amp CDR battery like the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6, then you are good up to 45 watts per battery; 90 watts using two; 135 watts with three batteries.

-If you use a good quality 20 amp CDR battery like the LG HG2 or Samsung 25R then you are good for 60 watts per battery. If using a 2-battery regulated mod, you're good for 120 watts as you have two batteries. If you are using a 3-battery mod, you're good for 180.

-If you use a single 25 amp CDR battery like the Sony VTC5A, then you are good for 75 watts per battery, 150 watts for two batteries, and 225 watts with three.

-If you use a single 30 amp CDR battery like the LG HB6 you are good up to 90 watts; with a pair of 30 amp CDR batteries you could safely do 180 watts.


​

Battery Basics for Mods: The Definative Battery Guide for Vaping
Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries Part 1

Thanks a lot, I was actually just about to post another question about the 60/120W post, since a battery contains just about 11Whrs of power.
Of course it makes sense if you’re talking about the CDR. I’ve read about it before (here), but I’m still learning...

I made another mistake in thinking that a very low resistance coil would need a lot of power to get glowing, but of course it’s the other way around.

About the battery care in general: it’s a well known fact that LiIon batteries are “happiest” between 20-80% state of charge, would you agree? (Some say between 30-70%) From my own experience (mainly in RC), I can only state that once you get to 30% and below and keep drawing a lot of power, the batteries get a lot warmer, even hot. Which is not recommended, especially for longevity. But it is also true what you said, you shouldn’t keep them fully charged all the time. I only charge batteries to a 100% when I intend to use them immediately after.

 

[Baditude]

I made another mistake in thinking that a very low resistance coil would need a lot of power to get glowing, but of course it’s the other way around.

About the battery care in general: it’s a well known fact that LiIon batteries are “happiest” between 20-80% state of charge, would you agree?

Wrong. Low resistance coils draw more power from the battery than do high resistance coils. However, that's more important to know in mechanical mods where the source of power is coming directly from the battery. In regulated mods, the source of power to the coil is from the regulating chip, so the coil resistance is irrelevant. Having said that, each chip has a lowest limit in resistance it will fire.

Basically, you want to keep battery voltage just under a full charge and not let its charge status fall below 2.5 volts. If long term storing is your intent, keep them around 60 - 70% charged.