Vg Pg ratio

[Majik78]

Hello peeps.

Ive been making diy for a few months now. Ive use a billow v3 on a rx200 and a velocity clone dripper on an evic mini. Ive been mixing 80/20, 3mg nic with total blend flavouring usually hitting 8-12% depending on the recipe. A fellow diyer swears by 70/30. Not wishing to start all over again with trying flavours at this vg/pg level, but curiosity is getting the best of me. Those of you who've tried both ratios what are your general opionions? bearing in mind my mods, tank and dripper. I'm curious because I'm not really sure why i went to 80/20 being as the bought juices i had were 70/30. I dont really like TH much so thats probably why. I sort get the feeling there's not a lot in it but any thoughts?

 

[sonicbomb]

Stick with what you've built your recipes around, that small a difference in PG would barely be noticeable.

 

[Hoosier]

Ratio of PG/VG is what works for you and your equipment best. It shouldn't have any significant impact on taste unless your equipment can't work well with the new ratio or you're using some wonky PG and/or VG.

 

[Alien Traveler]

For a while I followed trend of high VG juices. Started to cough because of it (OK, just couple times a day, but I never coughed when I was a smoker, so my wife became antzy). Switched to 50/50 and I love it. As for throat hit - I did not really found a difference. And wicking is much better.

 

[IDJoel]

I am curious what your fellow DIYer says you have to benefit by changing? Or why you feel you might be missing out?

I would suggest you mix a small (maybe 10mL?) test batch of 30P/70V of a recipe (don't change flavor percentages) you already have mixed in your normal 20P/80V mix, and do a side by side comparison, and see what YOU think.

You MIGHT notice one or more:

• a slightly thinner finished product (leaks?, clouds {if you care}?)
• a slightly more intense flavor (VG is not as good a flavor carrier as PG)
• a slightly less "sweet" finished product (VG adds more "sweetness" than PG)
• slightly more throat hit (PG has more throat hit than VG)
• slightly more "dry mouth" (some vapers attribute dry mouth to PG)

Or you might notice absolutely nothing.

Honestly; like the adage says "If it ain't broke; don't fix it." I'm not sure what you would gain by this change, unless you are having problems with dry hits (normally using tanks)(caused by wicking problems from too-thick juice), or you are looking for more flavor (or reducing cost/flavor component usage).

No harm in experimenting. I just wouldn't anticipate world-changing differences. @Hoosier is absolutely right, there is no ONE right way, only what is right for YOU and your equipment.

 

[sonicbomb]

It shouldn't have any significant impact on taste

Not so in my experience. Bearing in mind PG is the primary flavor carrier in relation to VG. A ten percent shift would make a significant change in the strength of the flavor of the mix.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

A significant change in flavor from 80/20 to 70/30???

Hmmm, not that I ever noticed.

 

[Alien Traveler]

A significant change in flavor from 80/20 to 70/30???

Hmmm, not that I ever noticed.

Not that I ever tried to notice, but it's 50% increase of PG. Just saying.

 

[mhertz]

I doubt it would matter if properly stepped, but it might taste slightly "brighter"...

Imho, VG just caries the flavor unadulturated, whereas the ethanolish taste nature of PG acts as an enhancer/brightener, but most evident in fruits I believe...

VG is dull/natural vs PG which is ethanolish upbrightener/enhancer... Sorry for extremely unscientific terms, but it's hard to describe taste without using such stupid slurs

 

[Frenchfry1942]

A significant change in flavor from 80/20 to 70/30???

Hmmm, not that I ever noticed.

Not that I ever tried to notice, but it's 50% increase of PG. Just saying.

I took both as being PG/VG, or a 10% difference.

 

[mhertz]

They are both in PG/VG, but Alien Traveler refers to although only a 10% increase in PG for the full liquid, then it's still 50% more PG from 70/30 vs 80/20 i.e. 20ml PG vs 30ml PG eg

 

[Hoosier]

Not so in my experience. Bearing in mind PG is the primary flavor carrier in relation to VG. A ten percent shift would make a significant change in the strength of the flavor of the mix.

I wouldn't call a recipe "right" until it tastes the same at max PG and max VG. It will have a different feel and work better in different equipment, but it will taste the same. Of course spending 5 months working to get a recipe right is not uncommon for me, but that's a curse of being so dang picky.

6+ years of mixing my own means I've developed my own biases and I'm very biased because I know what works for me. So drastic changes to PG/VG ratios do not have a significant impact on taste in my mixes. I do not doubt it has an impact in yours. As long as what you do works for you, that's great. I just do it differently and it works for me.

 

[Majik78]

This is the sort of internal conflict i was having - causing me to start this thread. Good point made with the PG increase being 50%. I think I'll just do the obvious and make my ADV at 70/20. I'll let you know. Thanks for your help, although there is no direct answers, I feel better about being a bit conflicted.

 

[dannyv45]

I've done both high and low VG mixes and found no increase or decrease in flavor intensity. I just needed to wait a little longer for the high VG mixes taste to develop. What I did notice was higher VG mixes produce a slightly sweeter, wetter vape. In higher PG mixes I noticed a less sweet, drier vape which to me was a bit harsher on the throat. But as mentioned several times above, there's no need to switch if what your doing is working in the devices your using. Just remember what works for some may not work for you but again you won't know that until you try. Just don't make large batches because if it don't work out then that's just wasting materials. In your case I don't think a 10% shift between VG and PG will produce a dramatic difference.

 

[dannyv45]

Not so in my experience. Bearing in mind PG is the primary flavor carrier in relation to VG. A ten percent shift would make a significant change in the strength of the flavor of the mix.

• a slightly more intense flavor (VG is not as good a flavor carrier as PG)

There should be no significant change in flavor intensity regardless if it's 20/80, 50/50, or 80/20. What makes a difference is the amount of time you let it mature. As you mentioned PG is a better flavor carrier then VG but all that means is it take more time to meld flavor molecules through VG then PG. But given enough passage of time the end result as far as flavor intensity will be the same. I know that this was not implied here but for the benefit of others, many people think that more flavor percentage is needed for VG then PG but that's a myth. For VG mixes a slight warming to thin the mix, then a vagarious shaking, then a little passage of time is usually all that's needed to blend all ingredients. Some thinning with distilled water may be required to compensate for poor wicking issues which sometimes happen with high VG mixes.

 

[dannyv45]

I doubt it would matter if properly stepped, but it might taste slightly "brighter"...

Imho, VG just caries the flavor unadulturated, whereas the ethanolish taste nature of PG acts as an enhancer/brightener, but most evident in fruits I believe...

VG is dull/natural vs PG which is ethanolish upbrightener/enhancer... Sorry for extremely unscientific terms, but it's hard to describe taste without using such stupid slurs

That's a pretty interesting anology but what I think a better explanation would be is that PG is more of an abrasive carrier and better dessolver of flavoring molecules. Think of it this way flavoring starts out as a solid molecule. In order to dessolive that molecule you need a base liquid. PG is a better dissolver base then VG. Just think of sugar in water (PG) It dessolves quickly. Now think of sugar trying to dessolve in oil or cooking fat (VG) it will take a lot longer because it's a less abrasive medium with a thicker viscosity.

 

[mhertz]

Sure, it's a better dissolver, agreed. However, my points where about pre-stepped liquids and traits of how the PG/VG brings the flavor forth(when properly steeped)...

Taste is subjective of course e.g. some feel PG are flavorless or not sweet, which to me seems crazy...

 

[sonicbomb]

There should be no significant change in flavor intensity regardless if it's 20/80, 50/50, or 80/20. What makes a difference is the amount of time you let it mature. As you mentioned PG is a better flavor carrier then VG but all that means is it take more time to meld flavor molecules through VG then PG. But given enough passage of time the end result as far as flavor intensity will be the same. I know that this was not implied here but for the benefit of others, many people think that more flavor percentage is needed for VG then PG but that's a myth.

There in lies the difference of opinion. I understand that steeping is required for more complex mixes, my recipes do not contain more than at most three flavors. I have been making my own juice for over 5 years and I have always mixed to vape immediately. Within that context I have definitely experienced a significant difference in flavor from as little as a 10% variation in the PG content.

 

[mhertz]

Needing steeping is btw highly flavor specific e.g. fruits are shake'n'vape whereas e.g. vanillas, creams and tobaccos etc usually needs steeping or atleast will change during...

I've usually not steeped either, but also mostly made simple recipes like inawera fruits and such...

There's a common debate about if VG(or high VG ratios) just needs more time to reach full "saturation", or if it actually needs more flavoring to compare to PG...