VG / PG Safe Temperature for Vaping

[m00shie]

Hey all!

I've just received my SX Mini M last weekend and was awfully happy with the performance. However, just to ensure that I'm vaping the 'right way', I like to know how I can define the temperature to set at for different juice mixture?

I've tried searching in forum but has identified so far that 100% VG will have a flash point of 176C (348F) and boiling point of 290C (554F) and mixture of water or PG will reduce the boiling point of VG.

My question is, how do I define the 'red-line' in temperature if my liquid is 50VG/50PG, 70VG/30PG, etc so as I can adjust my temperature accordingly? Is there a calculation or safe method I can use to define this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[m00shie]

any comments?

 

[Katmar]

any comments?

I think you are in the wrong sub forum. Maybe PM a mod and request to be moved to appropriate area. Good luck and I hope you get some answers!!

 

[sonicdsl]

Moved to Moved from Health Safety & Vaping to Temperature Control Forum

 

[mesamay2003]

Unfortunately, I don't think a definitive answer to your question has been determined yet, although there are some studies in progress...

 

[m00shie]

Thanks for the reply

 

[TheotherSteveS]

I hate to throw something else in but the addition of flavourings, if they are soluble in either carrier liquid VG or PG or both, will alter the boiling point also and this will vary with flavouring/concentration etc etc etc...

 

[tc1]

Yep, we're still waiting on studies to be completed to answer this question.

And if you vape over 15 watts ... you may have to wait even longer. (The studies ... unless plans of changed ... weren't going to look at high wattage just yet).

 

[mesamay2003]

Oh, and besides the flavor ingredients and temps, we also need some studies on the metal composition of the coil wires...and so it goes. For now, even though I have a temp control mod, I still vape conservatively in "normal" mode...I still use kanthal, stay at .5 ohms or higher, use very conservative wattage, wick carefully to avoid dry hits and I diy my own juices, so at least I can select my flavors based on the manufacturers disclosure of ingredients. Best I can do, for now...

 

[m00shie]

Yea...been doing research...and there are a huge amount of complexity involved when mixing with other liquid such as PG, Nic and flavorings. That's my reason for this thread to see if there's anyone who has any light on this.

Thanks everyone for the explanation and hope that further research can enlighten on this. Temp control is something new and in my opinion, a great idea to improve vaping experience but of course, we need to ensure that we are vaping at marginal safety levels.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Yea...been doing research...and there are a huge amount of complexity involved when mixing with other liquid such as PG, Nic and flavorings. That's my reason for this thread to see if there's anyone who has any light on this.

Thanks everyone for the explanation and hope that further research can enlighten on this. Temp control is something new and in my opinion, a great idea to improve vaping experience but of course, we need to ensure that we are vaping at marginal safety levels.

whatever happens, vaping with TC is probably a lot better than vaping a fricking cigalite of god knows what resistance and god knows what voltage...

 

[350ZMO]

I had googled this once upon a time.

Here is what I have been able to find in my google searching from reports and wikis.

Sugar caramelizes at 360F
Cellulose decomposes at 430F
VG produces acrolein at 536F
PG decomposes at 329F
Nickel Curie Temperature is 671F

If someone finds different info please post.

With that said, I have done my own tests with cotton and Rayon completely dry in a coil and a 40 fired for 10s with TP set to 410F and they both discolor. Add one drop of juice, wick not even wet really, let alone far from saturated, and there is no discoloration.

With regard to curie temperature. It is hard to find data that correlates to ion production wrt temperature. But there is some linkage between curie temperature magnetism and ions. I'm not saying what link or even the right one for our case but it was all I could find.

Also Nickel seems to start a parabolic rate law oxidation at 842F. Under that it is logarithmic.

So, I run 100VG, no sweet flavors and 410F for a little margin to cellulose decomposition.

The rub is other chemicals that are in flavoring. Like vanilla from a vanilla bean. No idea what those are and at what temp they decompose. Nor for chocolate, bubble gum, etc.

 

[m00shie]

Thanks a lot for the research done.

With the trend of TC increasing, it would be good if e-juice companies would include a statement "Example: Temperature Limit: 430F" in their labels since ingredients are their "secret recipe" for success and some consumers may want to know the safe margin of vaping an e-juice.

But then again, it is also difficult as studies on this area is still undergoing and there's no definitive results to define how each different ingredient used affects the boiling point of the juice and to what extend the harm is.

 

[dr g]

You need to make sure to understand what temperature control does. The displayed temperature is the temperature of the coil, not the juice or wick. So you can't directly apply the displayed temperature the way you describe.

Also for the SX350J the accuracy of the displayed temperature is entirely dependent on the calibration.

 

[m00shie]

You need to make sure to understand what temperature control does. The displayed temperature is the temperature of the coil, not the juice or wick. So you can't directly apply the displayed temperature the way you describe.

Also for the SX350J the accuracy of the displayed temperature is entirely dependent on the calibration.

Noted on this aspect and thanks!

 

[350ZMO]

Thanks a lot for the research done.

With the trend of TC increasing, it would be good if e-juice companies would include a statement "Example: Temperature Limit: 430F" in their labels since ingredients are their "secret recipe" for success and some consumers may want to know the safe margin of vaping an e-juice.

But then again, it is also difficult as studies on this area is still undergoing and there's no definitive results to define how each different ingredient used affects the boiling point of the juice and to what extend the harm is.

You are welcome.

I haven't found a decomposition temperature for alcohol yet and I am interested as some flavorings are alcohol based. Most of the reports I find are on ethanol and with high temperatures and pressures as it is used in gasoline instead of MTBE. But I did find an ethanol report that had decomposition test results at 1.7-3.0 atmospheres and although the rate constant is extremely low for the C2H5OH->C2H4 + H2O reaction, it was present at 300K or 80F where they started and increased logarithmically with temperature. I'm not sure what that means but it sounds like I better go drink my vodka before it turns into ethylene and water! LOL

You can check it out here.

 

[DaveP]

It's just my own assessment, but if you vape at a temperature that gives you good flavor without the acrid taste and smell of a burnt wick, then you are probably safe from the chemicals that will do you harm. If it tastes or smells burnt, or if you sense a lot of heat in the vapor, stop and fix the problem. It's usually a wicking issue.

I don't see anyone vaping at a high enough temp to cause significant harm. I hate a hot vape. Slightly warm is good, but not necessary

 

[m00shie]

Whoa...trying to understand it makes me want to vape more. ..lol

 

[Technonut]

Yep, we're still waiting on studies to be completed to answer this question.

And if you vape over 15 watts ... you may have to wait even longer. (The studies ... unless plans of changed ... weren't going to look at high wattage just yet).

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e-cigarette-research-temperature-of-evaporation

Our goal is to test temperature elevation under variable settings of puff duration and power delivery (wattage) to the atomizer (including high-wattage vaping).

•We believe that it is not just the peak temperature that matters but the integral of temperature over time of puff.

•It may be preferable to vape at higher wattage with shorter puff duration rather than take prolonged puffs at lower wattage levels.

•We want to address crucial methodological errors observed in many studies, where the realistic puffing patterns in relation to wattage use are not taken into consideration.

•The assessment will be expanded to sub-ohm vaping, evaluating the patterns of use of experienced-advanced users.

*UPDATE
Many of you know that some new devices with the ability to control temperature of evaporation have ben developed. Two such devices have been announced. We have already obtained one of these devices, and we expect to get the other device soon.
We are going to test these devices, not only to see that temperature control is indeed a reality, but also (and most importantly) to see the levels of vapor production (which is a measure of satifaction for the vaper) and the effect of temperature control on aldehyde emissions to the vapor. The latter will show the true impact of temperature control on safety...

Also for the SX350J the accuracy of the displayed temperature is entirely dependent on the calibration.

Hey guys....I will be posting some pics up later.... But I had hands on time with the temp control J chip and a lot of discussions over the last 2 days.

For example I set it to 10 Joules and 500F and it never exceeded 300F. On the other hand I set it to 50 joules and 400F and temp control kicked in. The scheme is within 10% I believe of the set temp. Refinements are yet to be made via software but we spent considerable time with $10k FLIR and firing it and its accurate. What you see when it tries to exceed the temp is the actual temp reading fluctuating and not the power setting. WHats actually happening is its rapidly chopping the power to maintain temp. Confirmed through discussion and many scratch pad sketches. Its still DC-DC but based on coil temp it will cycle the power as needed to hold the temp. They just chose to display actual temp readings.

 

[tchavei]

You are welcome.

I haven't found a decomposition temperature for alcohol yet and I am interested as some flavorings are alcohol based. Most of the reports I find are on ethanol and with high temperatures and pressures as it is used in gasoline instead of MTBE. But I did find an ethanol report that had decomposition test results at 1.7-3.0 atmospheres and although the rate constant is extremely low for the C2H5OH->C2H4 + H2O reaction, it was present at 300K or 80F where they started and increased logarithmically with temperature. I'm not sure what that means but it sounds like I better go drink my vodka before it turns into ethylene and water! [emoji14]arty: LOL

You can check it out here.

I have no factual data to support this but in mid school I learned that alcohol would boil at 70C which was what distillation would do to separate water from alcohol.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.