What do you think about temperature control devices?

[TaketheRedPill]

<Since VG (554 F) has a higher boiling point than PG (373 F) it's safer to use it in a coil heating device. >

well, in the lab, sitting in a bottle, that is true. However, if you add water to VG (or PG for that matter) it will lower the boiling point dramatically. So in reality, PG may be the "safer" of the two - at high temp.

With the first generation e-cigs ( 901s/801s/401s), we didn't worry about high temp coils since we were hard-pressed to push 3watts, and so the PG/VG argument was irrevelant at that time. It became relevant with the introduction of generation 3 through 5 of VV/VW devices that push the coil temp to extremes.

That said, bear in mind that the majority of e-cig users are folks who have smoked ciggies a long time and are looking for harm reduction. A little bit of nasties to this population segment is not a dealbreaker, considering the 4000 or so nasties in every cigarette. Never-smokers need to make an informed decision whether inhaling possible nasties is actually a good hobby for them to pursue.

 

[RCHagy74]

Some will differ and say it is all on Evolv's shoulders...

In so far as Evolv uncovering/knowing/learning(?) the best way to mod with their board and sharing it.

I feel it would be in Evolv's best interests to build their own devices (from scratch) again and strictly for in-house use and testing.
Control as many variables as possible and then share with the mod makers best practices.
Now, if they did do this... well, someone should be sitting in a corner for a good long time.

Except for John. He should be made to go outside and interact with people.

 

[Ian444]

I don't care about Busardo's opinions, they don't match mine. I figured this stuff out in a couple of days, nickel builds and all, and I was a beta tester so there wasn't much prior knowledge to go by.

I thought his review was very fair, and apparently he was a beta tester too. And apparently evolv were aware of issues with their board and released them anyway, to other USA mod makers and individuals. What planet are they on.

More importantly, will he do something to support the original creators of the technology that all the Chinese makers ripped off?

I'm hoping the Chinese will perfect a project that evolv can't.

 

[dr g]

In so far as Evolv uncovering/knowing/learning(?) the best way to mod with their board and sharing it.

I feel it would be in Evolv's best interests to build their own devices (from scratch) again and strictly for in-house use and testing.
Control as many variables as possible and then share with the mod makers best practices.
Now, if they did do this... well, someone should be sitting in a corner for a good long time.

Except for John. He should be made to go outside and interact with people.

Controlling variables is actually not the best way to achieve best practices. Testing as many different variables as possible does, and that's what the beta test group is for. The beta testers have from the start taken the lead on disseminating information on use and helping early adopters. As it turns out, the technology is quite flexible and there are many practices that work.

Note Evolv has put out more information about this technology than any prior technology.

I thought his review was very fair, and apparently he was a beta tester too. And apparently evolv were aware of issues with their board and released them anyway, to other USA mod makers and individuals. What planet are they on.

I'm hoping the Chinese will perfect a project that evolv can't.

Lol, clear agenda is clear.

 

[RCHagy74]

Controlling variables is actually not the best way to achieve best practices. Testing as many different variables as possible does, and that's what the beta test group is for. The beta testers have from the start taken the lead on disseminating information on use and helping early adopters. As it turns out, the technology is quite flexible and there are many practices that work.

Note Evolv has put out more information about this technology than any prior technology.

(Had this whole 'stream of consciousness' thing going... then deleted it. I am a fat fingered ......
Also, for the record, To be honest, I do not know as much as I should to be posting as much as I do... I suppose that is what the ignore button is for!)

Control the environment and test the variables, is closer to what I should/could have said ( I know you will correct me again if I am mistaken dr g and all the following is me rambling again!).

To even find out whether a fixed stainless steel 510 vs a floating silver plated brass 510 vs a copper adjustable 510 vs a solid gold, air cooled, piston driven 510... see where I am going with this?
'To hot glue or not to hot glue...'
What sort of solder? Are there even different kinds of solder? Ways to solder?

To attempt to make a perfect product, for me, means said product will never see the light of day.
Nothing is perfect. Ever. Bad boards are going to happen. Apple buys a whole batch of bad cpus from a single run, they can blame the cpu maker.
Evolv does not have that luxury. Be it bad programming or in the manufacturing process (did someone sneeze in the press?), it is on them.

Yet, it was bound to happen. It will happen again. YiHi and the rest of china will screw up.
Is everyone going to go back to ciga-likes, just because bad boards happen?

Even fixes can be hit or miss, especially in programming, programming is a pain.
Manufacturing errors can be difficult to track down.

To expect perfection is going to lead to dissatisfaction.
To expect good communication and updates as to he cause of errors (and not user error all the time) is a reasonable customer expectation.

But, hey, my DNA 40s are working quite nicely

OK... my brain is going into thermal runaway... and I just noticed the restore auto save option down bottom here

 

[Rossum]

What sort of solder? Are there even different kinds of solder?

Yes, but hardly anyone uses the good stuff (60/40 or 63/37 Sn/Pb) anymore because the lead content makes it politically incorrect.

 

[VictorC]

Amen, people easily forget how groundbreaking this technology is. It literally rewrote the book on vaping..

You've gotta be kidding or don't understand the technology.

 

[dr g]

You've gotta be kidding or don't understand the technology.

Heh, feel free to review my posts on the topic. Your comments display no understanding to speak of.
Temperature control is the most groundbreaking advancement in vaping possibly ever.

 

[VictorC]

Temperature control is the most groundbreaking advancement in vaping possibly ever.

That’s what YOU believe in. There is a difference between someone’s beliefs and scientific facts. To date you couldn’t provide a single fact to prove your belief that nickel is safe to use for vaping. You can believe in whatever you want but it has zero value for me.

 

[retird]

That’s what YOU believe in. There is a difference between someone’s beliefs and scientific facts. To date you couldn’t provide a single fact to prove your belief that nickel is safe to use for vaping. You can believe in whatever you want but it has zero value for me.

I've not read any scientific facts that any wire used in vaping is safe, be it nickel, kanthal, titanium, nickel blends, and etc. Can ya point me to any... I'd be interested to read them... THX...

 

[polarbare]

Honestly, until I see what Dr. Farsalinos' study has to say I'm holding of on TC builds.

Mainly because it really isn't protecting me or most people from anything at this point. For most experienced vapers, dry hits are a non-issue and when we do TC builds, we're setting temp limits to a point where we're getting essentially the same vape we got with kanthal. So we're pretty much vaping at the same temperatures as well with no idea whether its too hot or not.

Honestly, I find TC more problematic than kanthal at this point mainly because of the ramp up and tendency of the 510 to stop making good contact. After 2 or 3 iffy builds, I've never had the firing WAY too hard issue caused by anything other than the 510 connection going bad and the device needing to be allowed to cool and be re-seated.

Most of the time you can sense it happening, the connection going funny and you get that hint of over hitting at the start of a vape. Simply unscrewing the device a little and re-screwing it fixes it. Others it just comes up out of the blue and you get hit with this massive overpowering of the coils where you go "... IS THAT!". I've had a couple coils burn because of TC over hitting.

TC is a great idea, but the implementation is deeply flawed. Mechanically the 510 connections used need much stronger springs to maintain solid connections. On the software side, if they insist on maintaining the pre-heat function, it should be impossible to hit a coil at 400% of its setting, a resistance change too far from the baseline should also cause an error.

On a coil designed to operate at 10W or under, taking a 40W hit is causing dry hits worse than any I've experienced before TC. Dry hits TC is purportedly intended to prevent. Dry hits caused not by a bad build on the end user's part, but by 510 connections not up to the task and bad software. Without the pre-heat feature, the worst anyone would ever experience is no vapor.

This is my biggest problem with the DNA40 - one mess up and it all goes sideways. I really hope evolv is following the discussions on this board. Maybe I'll just send them a message

^TP is more about 'peace of mind'. Knowing that however I crank up my wattage (whether intentionally or by error) my build isn't going to fry.

Dry hits, How? As long as you don't have wicking issues and the feed system is working correctly - the build would remain saturated - thus vapor!

Connectivity? The same applies to our regular Kanthal builds, tho a tad seriousness is required with Ni200. As long as the wire legs are well terminalled and you don't have a finicky 510ed atty - you are good with TP. There are certain attys which should be avoided for TP builds (e.g. K4, R-91 Black, SQR, Estia to name a few) for the rest and most attys TP works just fine.

The point is, one mistake (heaven forbid it is when you, or the mod builder, are soldering) and you are going to have major issues. I'm pretty sure everyone has made at least one mistake while vaping (I know I have ). Changing the programming would keep the massive power dump and subsequent roasting from happening.

 

[dr g]

That’s what YOU believe in. There is a difference between someone’s beliefs and scientific facts. To date you couldn’t provide a single fact to prove your belief that nickel is safe to use for vaping. You can believe in whatever you want but it has zero value for me.

You ignoring what i wrote is not me not providing facts.

This is my biggest problem with the DNA40 - one mess up and it all goes sideways. I really hope evolv is following the discussions on this board. Maybe I'll just send them a message

The point is, one mistake (heaven forbid it is when you, or the mod builder, are soldering) and you are going to have major issues. I'm pretty sure everyone has made at least one mistake while vaping (I know I have ). Changing the programming would keep the massive power dump and subsequent roasting from happening.

Massively overstated at best. This is simply not a common occurrence and by what I've seen, I question whether what the QP reported happened the way it was reported. User error is common, that experience is almost unique to that user.

In the end if you are the type of vaper that lungs the first hit off of any new build, you are setting yourself up. That is not smart no matter what the build.

 

[Woofer]

Changing the programming would keep the massive power dump and subsequent roasting from happening.

massive power dump?
subsequent roasting?

Huh? Are you talking about the pre-heat, it is so seamless on both my VS rDNA 40s that I don't notice it at all, till I vape a standard device then I really miss it.

 

[Rossum]

massive power dump?
subsequent roasting?

I've seen much hotter vapor than expected with bad builds. I'm not sure I understand how/why it happens, i.e. how a bad build fools the software into dumping more power into the coil than it should, but happen it can.

 

[dr g]

Bad builds 99.99% of the time I've seen temp out early and don't produce enough vapor, or kick out of temp mode.

 

[Woofer]

I've seen much hotter vapor than expected with bad builds. I'm not sure I understand how/why it happens, i.e. how a bad build fools the software into dumping more power into the coil than it should, but happen it can.

Perhaps a hot spot, it is nothing I've seen.
I just avoid all the issues by not building bad builds

 

[SavePaperVapor]

I've seen much hotter vapor than expected with bad builds. I'm not sure I understand how/why it happens, i.e. how a bad build fools the software into dumping more power into the coil than it should, but happen it can.

I'll admit I'm wet behind the ears with this since I've only had my recent rDNA for less than a month, but I've converted all 8 of my current toppers to nickel and haven't had this occur. Granted, they all have similar single wrap 28 gauge coils, nothing fancy, but they all work great. Aqua v2, goblin, lemo, delta 2, derringer, zenith v2, tobh, and a fogger. All of these work precise and only the Lemo needed some modding because the connection sucks.

 

[ukeman]

I did have a hot build once... about a month into TP.
It was like vaping a sub ohms coil at 30+ watts (not exactly a catastrophe).
I looked for trouble (It was on one of my 2 Prometey3 atomizers and 30g Ni200) but couldn't find anything and I believe the readouts were normal.
Never happened since (about 500ml later).
I don't recall having any connectivity issues ever (with about 5 different atomizers)

 

[polarbare]

You ignoring what i wrote is not me not providing facts.



Massively overstated at best. This is simply not a common occurrence and by what I've seen, I question whether what the QP reported happened the way it was reported. User error is common, that experience is almost unique to that user.

In the end if you are the type of vaper that lungs the first hit off of any new build, you are setting yourself up. That is not smart no matter what the build.

I don't lung hit right off the bat - in fact, I mainly use tanks (nautilus/silo and subtanks - I rebuild the heads). I also swap out tanks quite a bit (between 4 or 5 flavors constantly, usually vaping on one tank for maybe 7 to 10 minutes at a time). When I have had a problematic build, it is intermittent. It might work fine for the first series of hits, then sometimes when I change tanks and go back to it, it reads a higher resistance, does a ramp up (the preheat) expecting to reach a certain resistance (correlating with the temp you set) - what I presume happens is that the coil is not reaching that anticipated resistance, and the DNA 40 does not throttle back the power, but continuies at preheat wattage. I have gotten into the habit of checking the initial resistance reading before firing - it it reads higher than expected for the build, I don't fire it.

Yes, I understand it has to do with the build and how clean the 510 connector is - but the way the device is programmed, it is dang finicky. Am I ready to give up on it? No - but I am saying that the programming shouldn't allow the device to continue to dump at preheat levels.

 

[retird]

One thing I notice is when using a topper on a mod and vaping it then screwing it onto a different mod before allowing it to reach the same room temperature as the receiving mod can give the results you speak of...same with taking of a topper being vaped off and putting back on when the coils is not cooled to resting temperature/ohm reading...