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pinellaspete

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Okay, I'm back after A LOT of additional research.

You guys are going to HATE to hear this....

I think we need to think of all these different acids as flavorings that we NEED to add to our e-juices. They are all being used as preservatives and to help control the stability and chemical reactions of our e-juice. That is exactly why they are used throughout the entire food and beverage industry. Just try and find a food or beverage inside the largest grocery store you know of that doesn't use at least one of these ingredients, I bet it can't be done. (Unless they are using some form of salt.)

They are ALL some form and ratio of sour and tart. They are ALL used to lower the PH level in foods and beverages to make them acidic which stops bacteria from forming and growing and which also slows chemical reactions.

I have been all over the internet researching this, but as usual, Wikipedia puts it in layman's terms we can all understand. I am posting this short paragraph from Wikipedia that briefly sums up the different acid contents in wine and their resulting influence on flavor.

Here it is:

The acidity in wine is an important component in the quality and taste of the wine. It adds a sharpness to the flavors and is detected most readily by a prickling sensation on the sides of the tongue and a mouth watering after taste. Of particular importance is the balance of acidity versus the sweetness of the wine (the left over residual sugar) and the more bitter components of the wine (most notably tannins but also includes other phenolics). A wine with too much acidity will taste excessive sour and sharp. A wine with too little acidity will taste flabby, flat and with less defined flavors.

Here is a list with my findings of what these acids do or taste like:

Tartaric Acid:

The main acid in wine. Maintains the color and chemical stability in wine. It is twice as sour as citric acid.

Malic Acid:

This is the sour taste found in most fruits. It is found in high concentrations in green apples. It is known for its extreme tartness in candies. Extreme candies using this (Think high powered tart or sour.) are sometimes labeled "May cause mouth sores if consumed in large quantity." Malic acid is like citric acid on steroids! It is sometimes combined with citric acid.

Citric Acid:


Mild sour taste. This is the mildest of these acids. Is used as lemon or lime juice in recipes.

Vinegar:


The sour taste is from from the acetic acid that it contains. Vinegar has been used to add sour taste and to preserve food for a couple of thousand years. It is a mild acid like lemon juice. It can be used as a direct replacement for lemon juice in recipes.

Each of these acids will impart its own flavor and degree of sour/tartness to our juices. I'm thinking we should probably use lemon juice and malic acid for fruit flavored juices and tartaric acid and vinegar for other flavors. But I really don't know! What are your thoughts?

A couple of asides...

I think using one of the juice vendors sweet and sour additives is kind of like using Mrs. Dash's seasoning when you cook. Sure it tastes good, but what is really in it? Don't you what to be able to understand and control all the flavors in your juices? Well...Okay, we'll give you a pass because you are just starting to learn.;)

I've put the caramel color on the back burner. Right now I'm thinking it would be really great if you wanted to color a juice with it, but as far as flavoring something with it, you would need to use too much. I don't know though, I'm sure I'll be re-visiting the Caramel Color issue at some point.

I'm so glad to hear about everyone's success in using the lemon juice and vinegar! Now let's all remember to tell the noobs about it when they start those threads, "I'm new to DIY so what flavors should I buy?":laugh: Geez, I wish somebody would have clued me in a bit when I first started DIY!

Well...What do ya'll think? (Hey I'm allowed to say that now. I've been living in the south for almost 4 years now!)

Pete
 

36tinybells

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I hadn't heard of anyone using the sort of vinegar I am, so I thought I would post my results too. I have used a White Balsamic Vinegar from Trader Joes. This vinegar is a clear yellow and has only White Wine vinegar and grape must as ingredients. It is used for desserts as well as savory dishes. What I have found is a huge boost to the sweetness of my juice. I made a Strawberries and Cream that should just be called "Cavity". It was like a spoonful of sugar. I plan to remix it this weekend in a larger batch, as I only added 1 drop of the vinegar to the 5 mil sample.
Has anyone else tried a White Balsamic and had similar results?
 

mgmrick

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Ok, I have been studying about this vinegar and lemon juice debate.. Apple cider vinegar is an alkaline, but distilled vinegar and lemon juice will not balance the ph.. I have another ingredient that may work, and not taste like feet...I will buy some tomorrow, and give it a try...

I am using the apple cider vinegar.....so please do tell us.....
 

Str8V8ping

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I have used apple cider and white vinegar as well as lemon juice and tart and sour . FOr vinegars there was definitlry something enhanced with apple cider that the regular white didnt do . I have had better luck improving the juice with lemon juice though and even more with tart and sour . Im thinking tart and sour is a higher concentration and has no oder . They all do work !
 
Nothing new to report, but I've got another one for the books. I added .4 drops/ml distilled white vinegar to my chai tea recipe, and it made it much better. It toned down the aggressive spicy top note and let the more subtle flavors shine through. Using vinegar as an additive reminds me a bit of what vape wizard does to a juice, but different in some way. Keep up the good work :thumb:
 

Str8V8ping

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Nothing new to report, but I've got another one for the books. I added .4 drops/ml distilled white vinegar to my chai tea recipe, and it made it much better. It toned down the aggressive spicy top note and let the more subtle flavors shine through. Using vinegar as an additive reminds me a bit of what vape wizard does to a juice, but different in some way. Keep up the good work :thumb:

From emailing FA they told me vape wizard is a tobacco and should be used to enhance tobacco flavors . Since then i havent used it much since i dont vape tobaccos and it hasnt done much for me in bakery juices . Vinegar does help a lot to remove the off taste from some of my TPA flavorings .
 

pinellaspete

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Could adding vinegar be the cooking equivalent of the sweet-salty thing? Example: a good chocolate chip cookie should have some salt in the mix (IMHO).

Just a thought...(maybe not a rational one!:) )

That is exactly what I am trying to get across to everyone!
Everyone here has had a Coke or Pepsi at one time or another. They are the most popular soft drinks in the world. They are LOADED with sugar, but are also so ACIDIC that people would use them to remove rust off a bumper. (Okay, I'm really showing my age now!)

Our e-juices are made with mostly PG and VG which are mostly sugars. (And then we add EM to them!)(Are our taste buds trained/ruined by the fast food industry or what?) Our e-juices need the addition of acids to balance out all that sweetness. Just like wine, our e-juices need a balance of sweet/acid to allow the flavors to come through.

Thanks Maestro!

Pete
 

Jimi D.

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That is exactly what I am trying to get across to everyone!
Everyone here has had a Coke or Pepsi at one time or another. They are the most popular soft drinks in the world. They are LOADED with sugar, but are also so ACIDIC that people would use them to remove rust off a bumper. (Okay, I'm really showing my age now!)

Our e-juices are made with mostly PG and VG which are mostly sugars. (And then we add EM to them!)(Are our taste buds trained/ruined by the fast food industry or what?) Our e-juices need the addition of acids to balance out all that sweetness. Just like wine, our e-juices need a balance of sweet/acid to allow the flavors to come through.

Thanks Maestro!

Pete
Very well put Pete. I wish I couldn't taste the vinegar, but after it sat for a day. I did. I just went to the heath food store today, and bought an additive that I'm testing right now.. I need to give it more time, to see if it holds up. So far, so good..
 

Str8V8ping

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Very well put Pete. I wish I couldn't taste the vinegar, but after it sat for a day. I did. I just went to the heath food store today, and bought an additive that I'm testing right now.. I need to give it more time, to see if it holds up. So far, so good..

How many drops did you put in ? I wasnt able to taste any vinegar in any of the juices i used it in . I use about 3 drops per 5ml . You could always use tart and sour which is odor and tasteless .
 

Lyndagayle

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Pete, I commend you for sharing this knowledge. This seems to be a grand opportune time for people to jump on board if they're considering DIY. I have combed these threads for over a year and it seems that this group of people are very determined to learn the secrets to unlocking flavors and sharing what they learn. Most of the older threads are focused on what flavors blend well with others rather than what will make the finished product shine. This is good, very good. I just added two drops of apple cider vinegar to a bottle of 555 I'm working on and it really smoothed it out and gave it some body. I will be going shopping tomorrow for a fresh new bottle of AC vinegar and it's going into its own special dropper bottle to be placed in my arsenal. Here's a thought....I just wonder if AC vinegar with the "mother" in it would be even better? When using AC vinegar as a health food supplement, they always tell you to use AC with the mother. I believe I will stop by the health food store and pick some up. Will report my findings.
 

mgmrick

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Pete, I commend you for sharing this knowledge. This seems to be a grand opportune time for people to jump on board if they're considering DIY. I have combed these threads for over a year and it seems that this group of people are very determined to learn the secrets to unlocking flavors and sharing what they learn. Most of the older threads are focused on what flavors blend well with others rather than what will make the finished product shine. This is good, very good. I just added two drops of apple cider vinegar to a bottle of 555 I'm working on and it really smoothed it out and gave it some body. I will be going shopping tomorrow for a fresh new bottle of AC vinegar and it's going into its own special dropper bottle to be placed in my arsenal. Here's a thought....I just wonder if AC vinegar with the "mother" in it would be even better? When using AC vinegar as a health food supplement, they always tell you to use AC with the mother. I believe I will stop by the health food store and pick some up. Will report my findings.

As good as the apple cider vinegar was on day one it is even better after steeping for 2 days. It mellows out the juice and brings out even more flavor. The best way I can explain is when I exhale thru my nose I get the most flavor but when I do that all my vapes are harsh gives a burning sensation so I dont do it too much. With the 4 drops per 10ml added no such burning sensation....just nice very flavor filled vape.
 
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