Volt Charging Question

[Huuwap]

I have a KR808 USB charger:


I swear yesterday Smokeless Image didn't have input / output info on their charger up on their website, but I got a response from their customer service stating that the charger for the Volt is:
Input:5V DC:500mA
Output: 5V DC: 150mA
And it seems like now they have that spec on their website as well.

I've already put the money out for a new charger from Volt just to make sure there's no compatibility issue, but it won't be here until 4 days or so after the batteries make it, which should be today. Would I be able to safely use the USB charger I have until the Volt charger comes in?

Thanks guys and gals.

 

[Morandir835]

If that's the case Cookdawg sir there are going to be quite a few issues. Charging a 3.7v batt past 4.25v damages the cell, past 4.4v you risk burning up the batt or explosion. Someone over there made a mistake hopefully.

 

[Huuwap]

It didn't make sense to me either, but it's their battery and I'm hoping they know what the hell they're doing. They come pretty highly recommended, which is why I went with them for my wife's setup, but 5v out sounded fishy to me too.

When the USB charger comes in from Volt I'll take a look at the specs on it and post them up here. They're saying not to use other manufacturer's chargers because they've been known to kill their batteries, but if their own charger is pushing too much voltage out I don't want to use it either. I'm in a bit of an odd situation here.

 

[Kemosabe]

seems like the charger you have is more suited for the job than the one from SI! very weird.

 

[Huuwap]

Here's a post that cleared things up for me quite a bit: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-battery-chargers-will-i-void-warranties.html

Here's a post that I made in the Smokeless Image vendor thread that also helped immensely: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/smokeless-image/273374-questions-about-volt-charger.html

Basically, my understanding at this point is that Gen. 1 batteries (like the one I currently have a charger for) are unregulated and will take whatever the charger puts out. That's no good if you're plugging them into a 5v charger. Gen. 2 batteries (like the Smokeless Image Volt) regulate themselves. You can put them on a 5v charger and they'll charge up to their 3.7v specification (I think it's 3.7v) and stop accepting a charge.

You learn something new every day.

 

[Morandir835]

Cookdawg sir that's not true at all. Gen 2 batts have two separate voltage numbers, one is the actual battery voltage (which again shouldn't be higher than 4.25v), and on load voltage controlled by pwm. Even if they say they're 3.61v on load for example, doesn't mean that's the batt's voltage...

 

[Huuwap]

The vendor told me that the battery regulates it's charge, so the 5v, 150mA USB charger will work fine on it...do you believe this isn't the case?

I posted what made sense to me by what I researched, some of it posted by you Morandir...so you can imagine how much my head is spinning at this point, lol.

 

[jays1fan]

The vendor told me that the battery regulates it's charge, so the 5v, 150mA USB charger will work fine on it...do you believe this isn't the case?

I posted what made sense to me by what I researched, some of it posted by you Morandir...so you can imagine how much my head is spinning at this point, lol.

Yeah , I would love to know the FINAL answer too. Going with Volt on a couple of things and Morandir said a volt batt would work on a gen 1 charger ( My V2 Brand ) , but was thinking of getting a volt one as well.

 

[Slim Batz]

I have a couple examples of these little chargers, output on 1 is 4.5V @ .15A, the other is 5V @ .12A, so both come in between 600 and 700 mW ... which is really the important number. The newer batteries (Gen2?) control the charge/discharge cycles ... they simply will not allow the battery to be depleted below a certain voltage level, nor will they allow it to charge above a certain voltage level ... the high voltage number is somewhere around 4.2V. The discharge "curve" on a lion battery like this is very flat in the middle and steep at both ends. Starting at about 4.2V, the voltage will drop quite quickly with use and then settle in around 3.7V (or so) for the majority of the discharge cycle. When the battery is about used up, the voltage will drop quite quickly and the protection circuitry will kick in and stop it from firing anymore ... save of course for the blinking LED. So, the output voltage on the charger being 5V is not a problem, the smarts in the battery itself stop the battery from charging when its internal voltage peaks out at around 4.2V ... so you see optimally the input voltage needs to be a little higher than 4.2V to ensure the battery is charged to its full potential. The other thing the charger does is limit current so as not to overstress the battery during charging ... this is why some people frown on quick chargers ... they charge quick because they deliver more current.

The charger you have is 4.2V @ .1 A ... a little on the low side voltage wise and lower charge rate at only 420mW ... but lower is often better than higher ... using this charger, the battery will take longer to charge ... can't say whether the overcharge circuitry will kick in or not ... it probably will, even if it doesn't, if all you are looking for is a stopgap solution, just charge your bat for about as long as you normally would and take it off whether it says its fully charged or not ...Lion batteries have no memory effect .... you don't have to fully charge them. Thats the way I see it.

 

[Morandir835]

Not true Slim Batz (sir or Ms.?), they regulate the voltage output, but when it comes to charging it those "smarts" inside the batt can fail. Even gen 1 batts have ic's, doesn't mean they won't overcharge depending on what charger is used. Protected larger batteries for mods have built in ic's and can still be overcharged as well.

If you ever charge a 3.0v batt on a 3.7v charger you will at the very least damage the battery. Truly do not understand what volt is doing here, they're risking issues if it's output is truly 5v.

 

[Kemosabe]

you cant go wrong with extra chargers. it sucks having to wait 3+ hours if youve got 2+ batts to charge.

PS for what its worth in my opinion Morandir's word is the final word.

Yeah , I would love to know the FINAL answer too. Going with Volt on a couple of things and Morandir said a volt batt would work on a gen 1 charger ( My V2 Brand ) , but was thinking of getting a volt one as well.

 

[Huuwap]

I'm very much of the same opinion there Kemosabe, which is why I get confused when I see questions like this asked. Morandir responded to it the next post down, but I'm thinking he must have missed the voltage of the Volt charger.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rgers-will-i-void-warranties.html#post4493157

 

[Slim Batz]

No disrespect to Morandir ... but ... if the engineers at Kanger (who developed this format) design me their latest and greatest battery, and send me a charger for it rated at 4.5V output ... or the engineers who design the Volt batteries (which are quality batteries too) send a charger rated at 5V (fyi, their branded PCC kits are rated at 5V output as well), who am I to argue with all that brain power? The OP was wondering if he was getting the wrong charger ... my opinion is no, its the one designed by the battery manufacturer to charge that battery.

And no, I wouldn't charge a 3V battery on a 3.7V battery charger ... if a battery charger is labelled "for charging 3.7V battery model xxxxx" I wouldn't stick "3.0V battery model yyyyyy" into it. That, however, says nothing about what the charger is doing internally during the charge cycle to bring the battery it was designed for to a full charge. Cheers.

 

[Morandir835]

Cookdawg sir that is based off the original gen 2 chargers, 4.2/150ma. The next round of volt/halo/etc. chargers say 4.5/1.5a, though actual output is 4.2v when tested. Haven't ordered the 5v, but if it's actually 5v, well....

 

[Huuwap]

I just got my Volt charger in today. I plugged it in and hooked up my multimeter - 5.06v. Looks like it's running as advertised.

 

[Bullmastiffguy]

Ok I have another question about chargers, so if the output is 4.2v I was wondering about the Ma. I have from 150 to 420 Ma on 3 different chargers, will this just make the charge times different? or could the diff in Ma cause a problem with different batteries. two are 510 and ones an Ego.

 

[Wuzznt Me]

Charging standard 510 batteries on an Ego charger is a no no according to the instructions I got. The other way around just takes forever. I had both a year ago.

 

[Huuwap]

Just charged one of the batts up until the light changed, came off at 3.79v.

 

[Morandir835]

Cookdawg sir is that on load or off load?

 

[Huuwap]

That's no load.