VV only VS VV with VW too

[dezyner]

no need to get bent out of shape over the post or replies. As my wife loves to tell me, they're JUST batteries, lol. it was just meant to help me understand the fundamental difference and what to consider before I buy something. That something is going to be the ProVari. I want the build quality, want it to last, and I can see myself picking up a Vamo or an Evic later. the cost on those devices always seems to decline, rapidly, I just saw an evic go from a vendor for 65 bucks. Far cry from the original 120 asking price just a few short months ago. And the Vamo is only like 40 bucks. so, I will just go with the VV ProVari for now, and address the variable wattage later. thanks for all the insight, opinions, and taking the time to post. it is appreciated immensely. cheers.

 

[Soundhunter]

It isn't a gimmick, but it isn't magic either. It is a way to control power similar to VV. VW just takes it a step further by controlling output power instead of input power.

What is the advantage of this?


What this means is that it adjusts the output (wattage) regardless of the resistance.

Same as above - does this offer an advantage or improvement over VV?

What this doesn't mean is that one wattage setting is going to be perfect for you at all times, with all juices, etc.
So.. It is not designed to leave the wattage static?..seems like VV to me but I may be oversimplifying


It is basically a refinement of variable power vaping. There are some advantages to it. There are no disadvantages to it. Therefore as a power management system it is better.

That doesn't mean that a device that has VW is necessarily better than one with only VV. There are much bigger differences between devices than just the power control scheme. All else equal VW is a superior power control scheme - but we know that all else is never equal.
This is what I want to clarify.. assuming all is equal - what makes VW superior..from the end user's perspective?

Some people complain that many (not all) VW devices only adjust in 1/2 watt increments, which at certain power levels provides less fine adjustment then 1/10th Volt which is common on VV devices. I don't really think the small difference between 1/2 watt and 1/10th volt is significant, but some do.
I am beginning to think that this is the heart of my problem with VW up until now - the inability to fine tune the vape- I can tell a significant difference on some juices between 4.2 and 4.4 volts...very significant

Regardless, there are devices with 1/10th watt adjustments which is much finer than 1/10 volt, so that is a device specific difference and doesn't impact the concept of VW vs. VV, but only impacts the "everything else" issue.

Agreed... I think




junkman,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me:

I' not sure how to multi -quote - so I just asked my questions in your original reply - Look forward to hearing more

 

[junkman]

Agreed... I think

Originally Posted by junkman
It isn't a gimmick, but it isn't magic either. It is a way to control power similar to VV. VW just takes it a step further by controlling output power instead of input power.

What is the advantage of this?

Well, for one thing it is directly controlling the variable (of volts/ohms/watts) that is most directly linked to coil temp. When you boost voltage, you are indirectly boosting wattage, but by how much depends on the ohms. Setting the wattage directly is a more elegant solution.

What this means is that it adjusts the output (wattage) regardless of the resistance.

Same as above - does this offer an advantage or improvement over VV?

Aside from the elegance of controlling wattage directly, there is the advantage that when any coil within reason is placed on the device, the device will fire at the same wattage, regardless of the coil resistance. This mean that while you may still want to adjust the wattage up or down based on the way that particular coil/juice vapes, you will be close without adjustment. This is particularly useful if you switch from a high resistance coil - say 2.5ohm to a low resistance coil, say 1.2ohm.

If you set your VW device at 8 watts, both will fire at 8 watts without adjustment. But if you are using a VV device with the same coils, and you are at approx. 8 watts on the 2.5 coil, you are firing at about 4.5 volts. When you stick the 1.2ohm coil on the device and fire you will get around 17 watts. This pretty much guarantees that the VV device will be far from you desired wattage.

You get around this by setting the volts lower but again, it isn't as elegant.

What this doesn't mean is that one wattage setting is going to be perfect for you at all times, with all juices, etc.

So.. It is not designed to leave the wattage static?..seems like VV to me but I may be oversimplifying

Here I could have said that it would however be much more consistent than VV would be, and that some find setting a fixed wattage - say a "kick" is close enough that they will leave it alone instead of opening up the device to adjust the kick. But, when you can easily change wattage with just a single button click, people will do it as we always seek a little better vape.

It is basically a refinement of variable power vaping. There are some advantages to it. There are no disadvantages to it. Therefore as a power management system it is better.

That doesn't mean that a device that has VW is necessarily better than one with only VV. There are much bigger differences between devices than just the power control scheme. All else equal VW is a superior power control scheme - but we know that all else is never equal.


This is what I want to clarify.. assuming all is equal - what makes VW superior..from the end user's perspective?

Hopefully, I have sufficiently addressed that now. Remember, I am saying it is superior, but not that it is the only factor in determining if a device is better than another. So while one device may have a superior power control scheme, it can still be crap, or the end user may decide that the superiority of the scheme is not relevant to their use. That still doesn't change that the scheme is superior

Some people complain that many (not all) VW devices only adjust in 1/2 watt increments, which at certain power levels provides less fine adjustment then 1/10th Volt which is common on VV devices. I don't really think the small difference between 1/2 watt and 1/10th volt is significant, but some do.


I am beginning to think that this is the heart of my problem with VW up until now - the inability to fine tune the vape- I can tell a significant difference on some juices between 4.2 and 4.4 volts...very significant

But depending on the resistance you vape at the difference between 0.5 watt and 0.1 volt are not that large. For instance


Watts ohms volts

8.0 2.0 4.0

8.5 2.0 4.12

9.0 2.0 4.24

So while the difference of 0.5 watts does make more than a 0.1 volt difference, the difference is rather small 0.02 volts.

At some resistances the difference is higher and some resistances the difference is lower. At 3ohms 0.5 watts jumps to 0.15 volts, whereas at 1.0ohms 0.5 watts is actually less then 0.1volts (0.087 volts actually).

So while I did include the argument that VV can be more finely adjusted, I really don't believe it is an issue. And like I said, the 0.5watt adjustment is a device specific issue, as there are 0.1watt adjustable devices (see darwin for example) so it isn't something that is inherently inferior about the control scheme.




Regardless, there are devices with 1/10th watt adjustments which is much finer than 1/10 volt, so that is a device specific difference and doesn't impact the concept of VW vs. VV, but only impacts the "everything else" issue.


junkman,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me:

I' not sure how to multi -quote - so I just asked my questions in your original reply - Look forward to hearing more

I will try to answer

 

[Soundhunter]

Cool - I appreciate the knowledge

I'm not at all sure that my experience bears out what you are saying .. but maybe the Vamo and eVic are just much more inferior devices to the Provari than I thought.. anyway.. I still like getting more information so I have a better informed opinion..

cheers and thanks again

 

[dBm0]

JMHO...I agree that wattage is the best measure of the heat at the coil we have right now as it considers the atty ohms and the battery volts in it's value (until we start seeing Variable BTU or Variable Joule mods that is ). Hoping that future offerings of affordable/available VW mods brings better (flat output) power regulation circuitry and an amp limit that can handle sub-ohm RBAs. The current VW mods aren't quite there yet for me. Till then, I have have my ProVari and soon, an ELA for sub-ohm RBAs.

 

[Pur3Rush]

Get the best quality mod you can afford. That's it. If you can afford the Provari, then you don't need to ask any other questions. If someone offers me a Ferrari, I'm not going to comparison shop a Volvo.

 

[dezyner]

Get the best quality mod you can afford. That's it. If you can afford the Provari, then you don't need to ask any other questions. If someone offers me a Ferrari, I'm not going to comparison shop a Volvo.

I did need to ask, but now I know, and yep, it's the ProVari, I like to consider it the Harley or the Honda. I just wondered if it was a big deal to worry about, but my question was answered, so thanks again for taking the time to school the newb. appreciated greatly.

 

[UncleChuck]

I still prefer VV because I can adjust by .1 volt increments, whereas most VW mods, you can only adjust the wattage by .5 watt increments.

They are fairly close. For example, with a 2ohm carto:

6.0w = 3.5v
6.5w = 3.6v
7.0w = 3.7v

That's with a little rounding, but it's still fairly close.

Overall you do have more options with current VV settings over most VW settings on the market. 3W-15W in half watt increments gives you 25 different power settings. With variable voltage 3v-6v, with .1v increments, you have 31 different voltage settings. So you can get more specific with VV than VW.

Anyway,

I don't personally feel that VW is really important enough to become a deciding factor in a device. But if it's there, I'll take advantage of it.

If I were you, and had money to spend and was looking for a device I'd skip all the cheap china VW mods, and I'd skip the Provari and get a DNA-20 chipped mod. More powerful than any China mod, more powerful than the Provari. You can fine tune your vape much more than a Provari, and you get American made quality, the DNA-20 comes from the same people (evolv) as the kick, nobody can say with any honesty that the Provari is a better device than a DNA-20 mod, the DNA beats it in every single way hands down.

 

[Baditude]

If I were you, and had money to spend and was looking for a device I'd skip all the cheap china VW mods, and I'd skip the Provari and get a DNA-20 chipped mod. More powerful than any China mod, more powerful than the Provari. You can fine tune your vape much more than a Provari, and you get American made quality, the DNA-20 comes from the same people (evolv) as the kick, nobody can say with any honesty that the Provari is a better device than a DNA-20 mod, the DNA beats it in every single way hands down.

Just how readily accessable is a device like you just recommended? Waiting list? How long? Where? How much?

The Provari is readily available every day. Order one and it will be in your mailbox in 3-4 days.

 

[sawlight]

Just how readily accessable is a device like you just recommended? Waiting list? How long? Where? How much?

The Provari is readily available every day. Order one and it will be in your mailbox in 3-4 days.

Oh, it's coming, I assure you it's coming!

 

[UncleChuck]

Just how readily accessable is a device like you just recommended? Waiting list? How long? Where? How much?

The Provari is readily available every day. Order one and it will be in your mailbox in 3-4 days.

That is a good point, you got me there. Although the OP didn't mention it had to be a very easily obtainable item.

I know you like the Provari, and I like how it performs and respect what it is, but I think the time is coming where it's getting overtaken. It wouldn't be difficult to make it obsolete if a manufacturer tried to.

The DNA 20 chip is like 50 bucks retail, goes to 20 watts, has an awesome screen, and way more features than the Provari.

A USA company could have the Chinese manufacture them a quality empty tube that's ready to take the DNA chip. The Zmax for example (in SS) is a very good quality device, as far as materials used and machining is concerned. And you can get it for around $100 stateside. A decent amount of that price is the chip, which if you were planning on implanting a DNA20 you wouldn't need. I'm fairly sure it's possible to have a zmax quality tube made in bullk for less than 30bucks, possibly much less.

That means a company could simply buy a bunch of chips from evolv, have a bunch of tubes made, throw the chip in their tube, double the price when they sell it, and it would still be cheaper than the Provari, and it would still outperform it.

I know it's not quite that simple as throwing everything together but the point remains, vape technology has gotten to the point where, assuming a wise company combines and distributes it, the Provari could be totally outclassed by a cheaper device. While current mods can out power a Provari few if any can outperform it all around, and not at a price point cheaper than a Provari. The only thing that's stopping that from happening is that nobody is putting the effort into doing it.

If I had the money you'd see a little supplier tag by my name and I'd be selling DNA20 stainless tube mods for $150

I saw this site: CNC Machine Shop | Custom Waterjet, Plasma, Laser Cutting | eMachineShop.com and it really made me want to do something like this. Everyone's got to have a dream right?

 

[UncleChuck]

Oh, it's coming, I assure you it's coming!

I sure hope so! Any specifics or are you just talking in general? All the cool new info seems to be located in places that I'm unaware of so I'm curious if there's an actual planned mod in progress.

 

[sawlight]

I really can't say any more than I have, sorry! It's not mine.

 

[Buzzsaw46]

That is a good point, you got me there. Although the OP didn't mention it had to be a very easily obtainable item.

I know you like the Provari, and I like how it performs and respect what it is, but I think the time is coming where it's getting overtaken. It wouldn't be difficult to make it obsolete if a manufacturer tried to.

The DNA 20 chip is like 50 bucks retail, goes to 20 watts, has an awesome screen, and way more features than the Provari.

A USA company could have the Chinese manufacture them a quality empty tube that's ready to take the DNA chip. The Zmax for example (in SS) is a very good quality device, as far as materials used and machining is concerned. And you can get it for around $100 stateside. A decent amount of that price is the chip, which if you were planning on implanting a DNA20 you wouldn't need. I'm fairly sure it's possible to have a zmax quality tube made in bullk for less than 30bucks, possibly much less.

That means a company could simply buy a bunch of chips from evolv, have a bunch of tubes made, throw the chip in their tube, double the price when they sell it, and it would still be cheaper than the Provari, and it would still outperform it.

I know it's not quite that simple as throwing everything together but the point remains, vape technology has gotten to the point where, assuming a wise company combines and distributes it, the Provari could be totally outclassed by a cheaper device. While current mods can out power a Provari few if any can outperform it all around, and not at a price point cheaper than a Provari. The only thing that's stopping that from happening is that nobody is putting the effort into doing it.

If I had the money you'd see a little supplier tag by my name and I'd be selling DNA20 stainless tube mods for $150

I saw this site: CNC Machine Shop | Custom Waterjet, Plasma, Laser Cutting | eMachineShop.com and it really made me want to do something like this. Everyone's got to have a dream right?

How will the DNA20 hold up over time? That's is one of the reasons the ProV is so highly regarded it has stood the test of time and is proven reliable. No mod gets that over night.

 

[sawlight]

How will the DNA20 hold up over time? That's is one of the reasons the ProV is so highly regarded it has stood the test of time and is proven reliable. No mod gets that over night.

Really can't say for sure! It seems well built, the weak link seems to be the connection between the screen and the board, if potted correctly, in a decent enclosure, who's to really say right now?

 

[Buzzsaw46]

Really can't say for sure! It seems well built, the weak link seems to be the connection between the screen and the board, if potted correctly, in a decent enclosure, who's to really say right now?

That's just it, if it fails first time it falls off a table it is of no use to me, even if the spec sheet says it's awesome.

 

[sawlight]

Again, that comes down to the enclosure and proper potting, I know one of the two will be done right.