VV/VW or VW? A noob Question

[secutorum]

Hi I'm currently using a Halo Triton system, and for what it is, it's great. But I'm a tinkerer at heart and have decided to get my first mod. Looking at a Kayfun Lite + v2 clone as my topper. I've been reading the forums here extensively, and can't find the answer to my question.

Which should I go for? A VV/VW mod (SVD/MVP, or other suggestions) or a VW mod like the sigelei 20W or a Seven 22? I'm guessing from the pbusardo reviews of those 2 VW devices that voltage is regulated automatically by the chipset, and in VV/VW mods you manually set both power and voltage.

I'm not certain of the benefits of VW only. I'm not a cloud chaser, but it would be nice to blow big puffy plumes at home. I just want to build my own coils and maybe look into dripping down the road. And who doesn't want to vape from a fricking lightsaber????

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[jstjoehere]

Many many many different types of battery mods out there. It really just depends on you and how many whats you like or need. Mine I can adjust either voltage or watts. Its one or the other you cant fine tune both it just dosent work like that. Only drawback to mine is that I cant build under a 1.5 ohm coil if I want to adjust watts. So I just build them around 1.5 to 1.8 with lots of cotton wick and they are good for me. Good vape and cloud. Its by no means a cloud chaser set up but it suits me fine. Good luck.

 

[Shootist]

They both do exactly the same thing. Raise or lower the voltage and the watts go up or down. Raise or lower the wattage and the volts go up or down.


Same thing, different terminology.

I don't see or understand what the big deal is with variable wattage. Some will say once you set the wattage it stays the same if you change toppers. Ok, True. But why would I want that?
If I went from a 1.2 ohm coil to a coil that was 2.0 ohms I certainly would not want the wattage to stay the same.

If I changed from a 1.2 ohm coil to a 1.4 ohm coil the difference in voltage applied would be nearly equal for that slight of a difference in the ohm rating. The same hold true if I had a variable voltage only device or set the VV/VW device to voltage.

Bottom line is which ever you use you have to adjust it to your liking. Not someone else's liking or what they recommend.


I recommend you drive your car at 80 MPH or above no matter what the speed limit is.

 

[DaveP]

Hi I'm currently using a Halo Triton system, and for what it is, it's great. But I'm a tinkerer at heart and have decided to get my first mod. Looking at a Kayfun Lite + v2 clone as my topper. I've been reading the forums here extensively, and can't find the answer to my question.

Which should I go for? A VV/VW mod (SVD/MVP, or other suggestions) or a VW mod like the Sigelei 20W or a Seven 22? I'm guessing from the pbusardo reviews of those 2 VW devices that voltage is regulated automatically by the chipset, and in VV/VW mods you manually set both power and voltage.

I'm not certain of the benefits of VW only. I'm not a cloud chaser, but it would be nice to blow big puffy plumes at home. I just want to build my own coils and maybe look into dripping down the road. And who doesn't want to vape from a fricking lightsaber????

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

The Sigelel Zmax for instance, incorporates both VV and VW modes. I thought all VW mods also let you operate in voltage or power mode, too. Power (wattage) is just a product of the voltage across a given resistance, so when you adjust voltage up on any mod you are adjusting the power output. What you gain with a variable wattage device is automation that adjusts the voltage for any resistance atomizer you install. You can vape a 2 ohm coil with the mod set at 6 watts and then change to a 1.8 or 3 ohm coil and get the same power output to the coil. With a VV mod you have to adjust the voltage yourself when you change the coil resistance.

Most of us know from experience what voltage works best with which coil resistance. Still, VW is nice because it can be an automatic adjustment that does away with the need to change settings.

If you want to dabble in the power ratings for voltage and resistance, you can use the formula E^2/R, where E is voltage and R is coil resistance. Multiply the voltage by itself and then divide by the resistance in ohms.

3.7v x 3.7v / 2 = 6.845 watts

Go here to play with the numbers and see what works. There's also a link to the Ohms Law Wheel for formulas.
Ohm's Law Calculator

 

[secutorum]

Thanks for the info guys. One further question concerning batteries.

Unless I do the seven 22, I'll likely be using 18650 batteries. For me, there is a lot of confusion over button top and flat top, and the mAh rating on each. Some 18650s are less than 1000 mAh, whereas I see some Panasonic's on Amazon at 3400 mAh. Will these things fit/work? I know not to buy any battery with 'fire' in the name and will stick to panasonic/sony/efest most likely. I just want the longest time on a single charge possible.

 

[yzer]

Use of button top or flat top batteries depends on the particular APV you buy.

For instance, with the Sigelei Zmax V3 or V5 telescopics you can use either button top or flat top. You can even stack flat top 18350s in them.

For the Provari you must use button top batteries only. This is because the Provari uses a recessed fitting that fits around the raised button top B+ terminal of the battery. This is one way to achieve reverse battery protection. The flat top B+ terminal will not fit to complete a circuit.

The reverse battery protection for the Sigeleis is achieved by electronic means. No special fitting are required so the devices use both flat top and button top batteries.

 

[yzer]

Look into and learn the difference between capacity ratings for batteries and the discharge current ratings before you pick a particular APV. Basically, the lower the discharge current rating the higher the capacity rating. You want high enough discharge rating to power your device and atomizer and the longest capacity rating possible given that discharge current rating. The bigger the battery the higher the capacity rating and to a lesser degree the bigger that battery the higher the discharge current.

The shape of the B+ terminal on the battery (flat top or button top) has absolutely nothing to do with any of the battery's performance ratings.

 

[Shootist]

Thanks for the info guys. One further question concerning batteries.

Unless I do the seven 22, I'll likely be using 18650 batteries. For me, there is a lot of confusion over button top and flat top, and the mAh rating on each. Some 18650s are less than 1000 mAh, whereas I see some Panasonic's on Amazon at 3400 mAh. Will these things fit/work? I know not to buy any battery with 'fire' in the name and will stick to panasonic/sony/efest most likely. I just want the longest time on a single charge possible.

Actually all APV's work with button top batteries only some work with either and I personally don't know of any that you must use flat top batteries only.

If it works with flat top it will work with button top. If it works with button top it may or may not work with flat top.

 

[Stosh]

If using a 18650, flat top or button top....the important thing is to get an IMR or Hybrid high drain type. These will be able to power your mod properly without stressing the battery. The bonus is they will stay in the useful voltage range longer than some higher mah rated ICR type protected batteries.

 

[MrPlink]

Actually all APV's work with button top batteries only some work with either and I personally don't know of any that you must use flat top batteries only.

.

FALSE!
And no, I will not do your homework for you

 

[Shootist]

FALSE!
And no, I will not do your homework for you

Just how can any APV work with ONLY a Flat top battery and not with a button top.

No need to do any homework as you are mistaken.

Sure if it calls for a flat top to make the battery cap sit flush and you use a button top the battery cap won't screw on all the way but the unit will still work.

But if it Calls for a Button top, like the Provari, and you try to use a flat top it won't work at all. The connection on the circuit board of the Provari is recessed and you need to use a button top to reach it.

 

[secutorum]

Some 18650 batteries, like the Panasonic one that's 3400 mAh look pretty fat. I'm wondering if there are any issues with squeezing them into the tube?

From what I understand, the higher the mAh, the longer it lasts before recharging. I think there would be a big difference between a 2000 mAh battery and a 3400 mAh one.

 

[DavidOck]

18 is the specification for the diameter of the battery. The 650 / 350 / 500 is the length. Not all are made as precisely as the spec calls for, but should still fit without issue. All 18xxx batteries are nearly the same diameter.

Yes, the rated mA of the battery is an indication of service life before needing a recharge. The higher the number the longer you can vape.

 

[Completely Average]

If using a 18650, flat top or button top....the important thing is to get an IMR or Hybrid high drain type. These will be able to power your mod properly without stressing the battery. The bonus is they will stay in the useful voltage range longer than some higher mah rated ICR type protected batteries.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS!

There are many different TYPES of 18650 batteries and not all of them are safe or suitable for ecig use. In fact, most are not. Make sure you get an IMR HIGH DRAIN battery or an IMR HYBRID battery.

Beyond that you need to check the specific mod to see if it has specific battery requirements. The higher wattage the mod the more specific it's going to be on battery requirements.

 

[Stosh]

Some 18650 batteries, like the Panasonic one that's 3400 mAh look pretty fat. I'm wondering if there are any issues with squeezing them into the tube?

From what I understand, the higher the mAh, the longer it lasts before recharging. I think there would be a big difference between a 2000 mAh battery and a 3400 mAh one.

This is true but has some caveats for vaping. The mAh is determined by measuring the performance of the battery from the 4.2V fresh off the charger down to 2.5V where the battery must be re-charged.

The problem for vapers is the range between the 2.5V stopping point and 3.4-3.5V is not a high enough voltage to vape with, and most regulated mods will shutdown long before 2.5V is reached. A 2000 mAh battery that maintains its voltage above 3.5V longer than a 3400 mAh one will be more useful for vaping. It all depends on the discharge curve of the battery.

 

[secutorum]

This is true but has some caveats for vaping. The mAh is determined by measuring the performance of the battery from the 4.2V fresh off the charger down to 2.5V where the battery must be re-charged.

The problem for vapers is the range between the 2.5V stopping point and 3.4-3.5V is not a high enough voltage to vape with, and most regulated mods will shutdown long before 2.5V is reached. A 2000 mAh battery that maintains its voltage above 3.5V longer than a 3400 mAh one will be more useful for vaping. It all depends on the discharge curve of the battery.

Stosh, now that is useful information. I'd love to know where to find battery discharge curves.

 

[Shootist]

Stosh, now that is useful information. I'd love to know where to find battery discharge curves.

No real need.

Just buy AW IMR batteries or the Sony VTC 4 or 5.

I have also had good luck with the eFast IMR batteries as I think in general they are rebranded AW IMR's.

 

[desertrider]

They both do exactly the same thing. Raise or lower the voltage and the watts go up or down. Raise or lower the wattage and the volts go up or down.


Same thing, different terminology.

I don't see or understand what the big deal is with variable wattage. Some will say once you set the wattage it stays the same if you change toppers. Ok, True. But why would I want that?
If I went from a 1.2 ohm coil to a coil that was 2.0 ohms I certainly would not want the wattage to stay the same.

If I changed from a 1.2 ohm coil to a 1.4 ohm coil the difference in voltage applied would be nearly equal for that slight of a difference in the ohm rating. The same hold true if I had a variable voltage only device or set the VV/VW device to voltage.

Bottom line is which ever you use you have to adjust it to your liking. Not someone else's liking or what they recommend.


I recommend you drive your car at 80 MPH or above no matter what the speed limit is.

Agree 100%. Not to mention different juices need different voltage. Or wattage. Or whatever you wanna call it. Same difference.

 

[DaveP]

This one is a 3400mah AND it's an lMR battery, the best of both worlds.

Panasonic 18650 flat top 3400mah 3.7V IMR Li-Mn Rechargeable High Drai | Cool Vape

Here's an exhaustive review that lists commonly used batteries and there's a discharge curve for each. I'd bookmark it for future reference (it's in my bookmark list).
Battery test-review 18650 summary

 

[Stosh]

Stosh, now that is useful information. I'd love to know where to find battery discharge curves.

The CandlePower Forums has a lot of good information. They are flashlight enthusiasts and have been studying batteries far longer than us vapers. Chasing down discharge curves is tough even so, some manufacturers will have them on their websites.

As you would expect the AW, Pannys, the other ones you hear often referenced as good, come out on the top of the heap. Stick with IMR high drain or hybrid, they are the ones with the best discharge curves.