WA Schools Consider Banning Electronic Cigarettes

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Ande

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The question not answered:

WERE kids using these things in school?

"Lookalikes" which would include a lot of ecigs, were banned where I went to school. (Which was LONG before the ecig even existed.)

Existing discipline policies about products or devices that distract from learning, in most districts, would be enough to allow these things, de facto, to be restricted/confiscated/not permitted.

In the absence of evidence that they were a problem, or that the schools' existing policies could not have dealt with any problems to arise, then...I've gotta say it's another one of those damn "We just don't LIKE them" kind of statements.


Ande
 

NCC

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Many schools have regulations prohibiting legal items/activities on campus. A lot require the students to wear uniforms (I would have had a bigger problem with that). When I was in school, male hair length was regulated.

The use of PVs in a public school could be disruptive if totally unregulated. How far should freedom go? I mean, should they be able to freely vape in a classroom? Can they now use their mp3 players in class too?

I think those students who could buy a PV, and use it at school, would influence others to use them as well. Probably develop a 'cool factor' among young folks. Not a good thing, IMO.

In the end, schools have always regulated the behavior of students in many ways. I don't see a problem ... although I saw differently when I was a student.
 

Demarko

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The only problem I see is.. I recall an episode of South Park where the parents try everything in their power to get their kids to stop liking Chinpokomon. Finally, the parents pretend to like Chinpokomon and the kids hate it. There's a certain cool factor in rebelling, and ecigs would be really easy to hide.
 

Vocalek

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Many schools have regulations prohibiting legal items/activities on campus. A lot require the students to wear uniforms (I would have had a bigger problem with that). When I was in school, male hair length was regulated.

The use of PVs in a public school could be disruptive if totally unregulated. How far should freedom go? I mean, should they be able to freely vape in a classroom? Can they now use their mp3 players in class too?

I think those students who could buy a PV, and use it at school, would influence others to use them as well. Probably develop a 'cool factor' among young folks. Not a good thing, IMO.

In the end, schools have always regulated the behavior of students in many ways. I don't see a problem ... although I saw differently when I was a student.

I am not understanding why kids who do not smoke would take up using an expensive gadget and decide to use it with nicotine. Do we have any known cases of this happening? If so, did those non smokers then "graduate" to buying packs of smokes? Anything is possible, but I just don't see this happening.

The odds are very good that if a kid who never smoked were to use juice with nicotine they will become dizzy, nauseated, and vomit. Now those of us who had that happen with real cigarettes didn't have a choice. All tobacco cigarettes come with nicotine. So if you are going to continue to smoke tobacco cigarettes, you are going to have to develop a tolerance for nicotine.

But e-cigarettes can be used with zero nicotine. Why wouldn't the never smokers do it that way? And if they did, what physical harm will that do to them?
 

Credo

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Why any school district needs to 'list specific items' that are not allowed at school is beyond me!

The word 'ban' is way overused!

If any kind of device is a distraction, or harmful to self or others...a school authority should be allowed to make a judgment call...take the thing away...fill out a form explaining the action and what the parent/guardian needs to do in order to get it back.

Like cell phones...
I've taught classes up to 130 kids in size from grades 7-12 all mixed up in the same learning activity. The phones were never a problem really. If a kid gets off task, s/he is off task, and it's my job to get them back on! Doesn't matter if it's a phone, passing an old fashioned hand written note, a PV, or just something as simple as daydreaming without breaking any 'rules' at all.

Not long ago...all the schools went crazy with 'cell phone bans'!
They'd even STOP CLASSES and line the kids up in the halls for hours each week shaking the kids down for 'contraband'.

Heh...before all of these stupid 'specific' bans, I might have lost 30 minutes a month dealing with individual kids and parents over things like cell phone interruptions or other disciplinary problems. I could do it in ways that did not infringe on the privileges or waste the instructional time of 129 OTHER KIDS who had done nothing wrong. These days EVERY KID looses more like an average of 30 minutes a DAY messing with the bans and codes, and teachers loose more like an HOUR a day.

Dress codes!
Hair styles!
Cell Phones!

And it's not the kids...it's the silly adults that stir all the stinking drama over every little thing!

When does it end!!!
We need to stop blaming 'OBJECTS' for all of our problems and give the authority to manage each class room back to accountable, individual faculty members. Trying to replace the concept of tort based disciplinary policies (what a reasonable person would do) with SPECIFIC LISTS and SHAKE DOWN PROCEDURES that treat every child in the school like some kind of animal is just WRONG. There's no time left for instruction and learning anymore...as the schools are too busy checking everyone's pockets and measuring their skirt lengths.
 
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Vocalek

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In Virginia we recently had a high school student commit suicide after he was first suspended, and then months later assigned to a different shool, due to a "zero tolerance" policy and rigid punishment standards. In the good old days, his offense would have been given a warning for a first time offender (which he was). He had excellent grades, had been well behaved, and was on a varsity athletic team. The sports involvement was, of course, totally eliminated by the transfer in mid year to a different school, and that was probably the last straw. They took away everything that gave meaning to his life.
 

NCC

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I am not understanding why kids who do not smoke would take up using an expensive gadget and decide to use it with nicotine. Do we have any known cases of this happening? If so, did those non smokers then "graduate" to buying packs of smokes? Anything is possible, but I just don't see this happening.

The odds are very good that if a kid who never smoked were to use juice with nicotine they will become dizzy, nauseated, and vomit. Now those of us who had that happen with real cigarettes didn't have a choice. All tobacco cigarettes come with nicotine. So if you are going to continue to smoke tobacco cigarettes, you are going to have to develop a tolerance for nicotine.

But e-cigarettes can be used with zero nicotine. Why wouldn't the never smokers do it that way? And if they did, what physical harm will that do to them?
Your post makes me wonder if you've forgotten what it was like to be a teenager. :p

And, I can't see why you, of all people, would have a problem with the proposed ban for campus use among teenagers.

Most teenagers can scrape up $30 for a cheap kit. What I fear is the development of a cool factor, as cigarettes used to have but have lost over the past 30 years.

Banning them on campus won't stop kids from using them elsewhere. But, by allowing their use is implied consent. Which may have been one of the reasons cigarette smoking wasn't allowed on campus back in my day.

In any case, my post which you responded to describes my thoughts on the matter. Just one opinion.
 

Vocalek

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NCC: I was not expressing an opinion about the relative merits of banning use in schools. An argument can be made that anything that is a distraction could be prohibited in a classroom, at the discretion of the teacher. I was expressing my disbelief in the argument that e-cigarette use must inevitably lead to smoking tobacco cigarettes.

$30 is still a lot more money than a pack of smokes--especially when quite a few of these kids obtain their smokes for free (by filching them from their parents). But even if we go along with your argument that using an e-cig could develop into a "cool" factor, it still does not follow that using an e-cigarette must lead to smoking.

Have you ever been to a Vapefest? Can you tell by looking what strength of nicotine someone is using?

If e-cigs become cool, kids can look cool by using zero-nic just as easily as using cartridges with nicotine. If nicotine had an intoxicating effect, I might buy the argument. Instead, it has the "uncool" effect of making the user more alert, better able to concentrate and pay attention and, as a result, get better grades. Mind you I am not claiming that nicotine would force kids to get better grades--just make it easier to do so for the kids with attention deficits or memory retrieval problems. However, in my experience the kids who smoke cigarettes are the ones who think it is cool to bully the kids who make good grades.
 
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Credo

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Good points about not knowing what's in your neighbor's PV!
Several organizations have invested in risk reduction research on college students and alcohol consumption at parties.

Several studies have found that requiring students provide their own drinking container (no actual beer bottles or other containter that makes its contents obvious being allowed) signifcantly cut down on the amounts of alcohol served. Students tesifed that this practice seriously cut down on the 'peer pressure' to drink.

"I can have plain water, or even an empty cup...and no one knows the difference."

"Someone isn't always walking over and handing me a cup full of something this way. When I want more, I go fill my squeeze bottle."
.......

Once PVs have been around a while longer...I don't see why they should be any different from chewing gum or candy if it is absent of nicotine or other 'drugs'. Candy is known to cause all kinds of dental problems, and chewing gum can even lead to middle ear problems if over used.

Yes, gum and candy are both 'discouraged' in many schools, and in some cases even banned; however, it is usually based on factors other than distorted health risks. I.E. It can make expensive messes, or cause disruptions.

Caution is understandable...and heaven knows it's hard enough raising kids without yet one more expensive fad, but banning things just because of stero-types and stigmas is exactly the opposite of what our constitution stands for.

NCC: I was not expressing an opinion about the relative merits of banning use in schools. An argument can be made that anything that is a distraction could be prohibited in a classroom, at the discretion of the teacher. I was expressing my disbelief in the argument that e-cigarette use must inevitably lead to smoking tobacco cigarettes.

$30 is still a lot more money than a pack of smokes--especially when quite a few of these kids obtain their smokes for free (by filching them from their parents). But even if we go along with your argument that using an e-cig could develop into a "cool" factor, it still does not follow that using an e-cigarette must lead to smoking.

Have you ever been to a Vapefest? Can you tell by looking what strength of nicotine someone is using?

If e-cigs become cool, kids can look cool by using zero-nic just as easily as using cartridges with nicotine. If nicotine had an intoxicating effect, I might buy the argument. Instead, it has the "uncool" effect of making the user more alert, better able to concentrate and pay attention and, as a result, get better grades. Mind you I am not claiming that nicotine would force kids to get better grades--just make it easier to do so for the kids with attention deficits or memory retrieval problems. However, in my experience the kids who smoke cigarettes are the ones who think it is cool to bully the kids who make good grades.
 
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Zal42

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i was thinking about this last night. what if you were in HS using your PV w/ a 0 nic juice? hmmmm its totally legal... and its not smoking.

Well, aspirin is totally legal as well but in the schools around here any student in possession of it (or any other pills, with a valid prescription or not) can be and are suspended if caught. Many school districts have gone so far overboard on their "zero tolerance" policies as to reach the pinnacle of ludicrosity (is that a word? It is now!). Even pill-shaped candy is grounds for suspension -- not just in theory, but it has happened in a case involving Tic Tacs. In this setting, I would be absolutely stunned if pvs were allowed, regardless of nic content.
 
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Vocalek

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Well, aspirin is totally legal as well but in the schools around here any student in possession of it (or any other pills, with a valid prescription or not) can be and are suspended if caught. Many school districts have gone so far overboard on their "zero tolerance" policies as to reach the pinnacle of ludicrosity (is that a word? It is now!). Even pill-shaped candy is grounds for suspension -- not just in theory, but it has happened in a case involving Tic Tacs. In this setting, I would be absolutely stunned if pvs were allowed, regardless of nic content.

I would be stunned, too, when we are talking about kids in high school or younger. I see no justification whatsoever to ban use on college campuses. I'm not sure that I would have been able to graduate from college if I had not been able to smoke in every class. At least I could manage to stay awake during all those flippin lectures deliverd in a monotone. It was lots easier to stay awake in high school classes because my high school classes had a lot more going on in them. None of my teachers lectured for much longer than 10 or 15 minutes. The college profs liked to listen to themselves talk.
 

NCC

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I would be stunned, too, when we are talking about kids in high school or younger. I see no justification whatsoever to ban use on college campuses.
I'm glad to see we agree on that. The article linked to in Post #1 (link no longer valid) was with regard to High Schools, as I recall. And, so was I in my two previous posts, i.e., teenagers.

You were allowed to smoke cigarettes inside class in college? I never experienced that. Outdoors and student center only.
 
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