Walks like a.....

[skoony]

I have given this a lot of thought. There is no getting around the fact
what we are seeing here is a duck.
1. It walks like a duck.
2. It squawks like a duck.
3. It swims like a duck.
4. It certainly looks like a duck.

How about we start calling it what it is.
A out right ban? From now on I will not refer to this onerous
legislation as regulations. I will be referring to them as the FEBER's,
(Federal ElectronicCigarette Banning and Elimination Regulations)
or BER's for short.(Banning and Elimination Reg's)
It's time we start laying it on a little thick and call it out for what
it essentially is. Hyperbole? Yes. Deceitful? No. A little truth in
advertising doesn't hurt.

If there is anything I have learned out of all this over the last 2
years is I was never,ever part of the equation. I never had a seat
at the table. I was never a stakeholder. All the Alphabet org's had
a seat. All the Big Anti-vaping science had a seat. The FDA,CDC and
EPA had their own table. BP and BT had a table. The tax collectors were
invited. Two or three folding chairs and TV trays were dug out of storage
for those representing us way back in a corner some where. And vaping
was stolen from me. From you. From us. We are all one big happy family again.
No more poisoning our fellow citizens with our obnoxious gas. We have our own
place by the curb next to our still smoking brethren. Say bro ya got a spare
EGO?,mines run low. All the chillin' will finally once and for all be saved
from this deadly scourge. I tell you there is something for everyone.
Everyone except me. You. Us.

Perhaps I just should be grateful with the knowledge that by my sacrifice
millions of chillin' and gramma's in cereal aisles everywhere will once again
be safe and healthy. Why I ever thought that I should be left alone to take
care of myself is beyond me. Apparently my place is to genuflect and kiss
the ring finger of literally everyone in abject admiration and the respect
they deserve without regard for my personal well being and happiness.

Well I guess it's back to reality. Excuse me while I step out side into the
drizzling rain to have a vape.
Can you make some room there bro? Quack you say?!

Mike

 

[Baditude]

It's pretty obvious to me that the FDA was clever to make regulations so tough for vendors and manufacturers to meet, that they didn't have to make an outright ban. Most vape businesses are small, mom & pop organizations that can not afford to pay the application processes, with no guarantee that ANYTHING will get approved. So most will close shop. Sad face.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Its not a ban.
Its control of the profit stream.

If the FDA wanted to ban vaping they would have restricted all sales of liquid nic.
Checkmate.

They wouldn't need approval of congress as they already have the authority.

Its about control.

 

[Rule62]

It's not a ban. You can vape all you want. As long as you're doing it with the products WE want you to use.

 

[puffon]

FDA:
As long as you can get the e-liquid we may or may not approve, into the sealed cartridge device, that we may approve, your golden...

 

[skoony]

Its not a ban.
Its control of the profit stream.

If the FDA wanted to ban vaping they would have restricted all sales of liquid nic.
Checkmate.

They wouldn't need approval of congress as they already have the authority.

Its about control.

No,it's a ban.
There is no long term viable profit in vaping if tobacco(cigarettes) are
eliminated. This is just redirecting monies back into the proven viable
long term profit center. The coalition of BT,BP,BMedicine,the FDA
and the taxman. With out cigarettes to get never users hooked in
the first place there is nothing to keep the usage rates high enough
especially after the sin taxes get added on. Only ever vapers would simply
go DIY or spend their discretionary dollars elsewhere.

Now if someone told me the big plan was to completely eliminate
cigarettes to get to a all vaping population and reap the benefits that
would result from that they simply need to step aside and let things
take their course. 5 years from now cigarette sales will have gone back up.
BT will have 3 maybe 4 cigalikes on the market. BP will be introducing
their new generation of cessation products which will oddly enough look
like a cross between a HALO and Provari. Nicotine will still be blamed for
it all.
http://www.formindep.org/The-myth-of-nicotine-addiction.html

Maybe the government is really looking out for me.

Mike

 

[7sixtwo]

It's pretty obvious to me that the FDA was clever to make regulations so tough for vendors and manufacturers to meet, that they didn't have to make an outright ban. Most vape businesses are small, mom & pop organizations that can not afford to pay the application processes, with no guarantee that ANYTHING will get approved. So most will close shop. Sad face.

Yes, the Fed Gubmint has been playing such games since at least as far back as the 1930's. Did you know that the other stuff was not explicitly banned either? It was regulated to be illegal without an official, (and prohibitively expensive), tax stamp from DC. Of course, in order to apply for said stamp, one had to bring some of the crop to DC for inspection, which was in itself highly illegal unless you already had the necessary stamp... They've been quite "clever" in evading the limits imposed on them by the Constitution. At this point, they barely pretend to respect it anymore, so the tyranny is getting more and more overt every day.

 

[VNeil]

The children will be safely back to smoking cigs...

 

[Rule62]

It's much like Prohibition in the '20s and early '30s in the U.S. When enacted, the Volstead act never made drinking or possessing alcohol illegal. In fact, two Presidents owned large supplies of personal booze; Harding and Wilson. It was illegal to buy, manufacture, or sell alcohol. Prior to enactment, those who could afford it, purchased stockpiles of booze, for supposedly personal use, much like DIY e-juicers are doing today.
The problem became one of enforcement. The government was inadequately equipped to enforce the law. Those who really wanted to consume alcohol, continued to do so. It just became more difficult and dangerous to do so. I suspect vaping will be the same.

 

[Rickajho]

Bit of an irrelevant digression but: The major target of Prohibition wasn't alcohol per se, it was the saloons serving it. The theory was that if you could get the saloons - that just happened to be serving alcohol - shut down you would then have perfect husbands and perfect families. Alcoholism no more.

In practice... yeah, we all know how it really played. Vaping speakeasy's and black market right around the corner.

 

[7sixtwo]

It's much like Prohibition in the '20s and early '30s in the U.S. When enacted, the Volstead act never made drinking or possessing alcohol illegal. In fact, two Presidents owned large supplies of personal booze; Harding and Wilson. It was illegal to buy, manufacture, or sell alcohol. Prior to enactment, those who could afford it, purchased stockpiles of booze, for supposedly personal use, much like DIY e-juicers are doing today.
The problem became one of enforcement. The government was inadequately equipped to enforce the law. Those who really wanted to consume alcohol, continued to do so. It just became more difficult and dangerous to do so. I suspect vaping will be the same.

Prohibition was clearly a huge mistake, but at least back in the 20's, it required a Constitutional amendment to enact.

Today, some government agency just declares that up is down, invents penalties for defying their edicts, publishes it all in the federal register, and that's that.

 

[smacuser]

Vaping is not going anywhere.

 

[skoony]

It's much like Prohibition in the '20s and early '30s in the U.S. When enacted, the Volstead act never made drinking or possessing alcohol illegal. In fact, two Presidents owned large supplies of personal booze; Harding and Wilson. It was illegal to buy, manufacture, or sell alcohol. Prior to enactment, those who could afford it, purchased stockpiles of booze, for supposedly personal use, much like DIY e-juicers are doing today.
The problem became one of enforcement. The government was inadequately equipped to enforce the law. Those who really wanted to consume alcohol, continued to do so. It just became more difficult and dangerous to do so. I suspect vaping will be the same.

During the whole time of Prohibition alcohol was legal to buy
with a Doctors prescription. The unique thing about Prohibition
was the fact that many more people took up drinking than prior
to the ban. Since the founding of the country many tried and many
failed to enact taxes against alcohol and tobacco for their perceived
detriments against society. From clean public drinking water until
now we can see how the public health mantra has steadily advanced
through the decades. From actually proving something is harmful to
requiring one to prove it is not. Prohibition ended for one reason.
Booze could be taxed as a determent to society under the guise of
using the money for public good. There were more than enough do
gooders ready and willing to fight the crime forever if necessary.

Regards
Mike

 

[crxess]

I have given this a lot of thought. There is no getting around the fact
what we are seeing here is a duck.
1. It walks like a duck.
2. It squawks like a duck.
3. It swims like a duck.
4. It certainly looks like a duck.

How about we start calling it what it is.
A out right ban? From now on I will not refer to this onerous
legislation as regulations. I will be referring to them as the FEBER's,
(Federal ElectronicCigarette Banning and Elimination Regulations)
or BER's for short.(Banning and Elimination Reg's)
It's time we start laying it on a little thick and call it out for what
it essentially is. Hyperbole? Yes. Deceitful? No. A little truth in
advertising doesn't hurt.

If there is anything I have learned out of all this over the last 2
years is I was never,ever part of the equation. I never had a seat
at the table. I was never a stakeholder. All the Alphabet org's had
a seat. All the Big Anti-vaping science had a seat. The FDA,CDC and
EPA had their own table. BP and BT had a table. The tax collectors were
invited. Two or three folding chairs and TV trays were dug out of storage
for those representing us way back in a corner some where. And vaping
was stolen from me. From you. From us. We are all one big happy family again.
No more poisoning our fellow citizens with our obnoxious gas. We have our own
place by the curb next to our still smoking brethren. Say bro ya got a spare
EGO?,mines run low. All the chillin' will finally once and for all be saved
from this deadly scourge. I tell you there is something for everyone.
Everyone except me. You. Us.

Perhaps I just should be grateful with the knowledge that by my sacrifice
millions of chillin' and gramma's in cereal aisles everywhere will once again
be safe and healthy. Why I ever thought that I should be left alone to take
care of myself is beyond me. Apparently my place is to genuflect and kiss
the ring finger of literally everyone in abject admiration and the respect
they deserve without regard for my personal well being and happiness.

Well I guess it's back to reality. Excuse me while I step out side into the
drizzling rain to have a vape.
Can you make some room there bro? Quack you say?!

Mike

I knew as soon as I started reading - you'd had enough. The Mike type was gone. In its place a simple Truth all need to hear.

400 New born children will die this year from Parents using Combustible Tobacco

Our Children need Far Better than this Fraud of a Governing body is willing to give.

 

[evan le'garde]

Does the USA still have an embargo on Cuba ?. Or are Cuban Cigars allowed into the USA now ?.

 

[EddieAdams]

Alcohol and alcohol consumption is/was done by a MUCH larger percentage of the population than, even during prohibition time, smokers and now vapers. We aren't a big enough percentage to topple the government. Even people close to me that are happy I quit could care less at what the FDA is doing or how it will affect me.

They don't vape. Some even are still skeptical about its safety and despite their total ignorance on the subject voice their ignorant opinions.

This past weekend I had a friend's wife upon my exhale at a party step away and I said "sorry, it's just vapor" respond with "its just as dangerous." I let it go. That was from a liberal well educated person. I really make an effort to exhale away from people too. Always finds them.

Point being there just isn't enough of us.

FDA BOC

 

[Cacique]

Vaping is not going anywhere.

I keep thinking about posting this, you gave me a great queue.

 

[Bad Ninja]

No,it's a ban.
There is no long term viable profit in vaping if tobacco(cigarettes) are
eliminated. This is just redirecting monies back into the proven viable
long term profit center. The coalition of BT,BP,BMedicine,the FDA
and the taxman. With out cigarettes to get never users hooked in
the first place there is nothing to keep the usage rates high enough
especially after the sin taxes get added on. Only ever vapers would simply
go DIY or spend their discretionary dollars elsewhere.

Now if someone told me the big plan was to completely eliminate
cigarettes to get to a all vaping population and reap the benefits that
would result from that they simply need to step aside and let things
take their course. 5 years from now cigarette sales will have gone back up.
BT will have 3 maybe 4 cigalikes on the market. BP will be introducing
their new generation of cessation products which will oddly enough look
like a cross between a HALO and Provari. Nicotine will still be blamed for
it all.
The myth of nicotine addiction - Formindep

Maybe the government is really looking out for me.

Mike

No its not a ban.
Its a giftwrapped profit stream handed to Big Tobacco.
Prohibition doesnt bring in as much profit as regulation.

You can speculate all you like but its painfully obvious from a business perspective to see what is happening.

Prohibition costs too much.

Regulation fills pockets.
Control ensures the right pockets get filled.
Vaping is a multi-billion dollar industry.
The FDA and BT wont leave that much cash on the table.
Dont be naive.

 

[ENAUD]

The deeming regulations are a ban. They are targeted to totally destroy the industry. That is not regulation, calling it regulation is a lie...

 

[7sixtwo]

No its not a ban.
Its a giftwrapped profit stream handed to Big Tobacco.
Prohibition doesnt bring in as much profit as regulation.

You can speculate all you like but its painfully obvious from a business perspective to see what is happening.

Prohibition costs too much.

Regulation fills pockets.
Control ensures the right pockets get filled.
Vaping is a multi-billion dollar industry.
The FDA and BT wont leave that much cash on the table.
Dont be naive.

With a Feb 2007 grandfather date, and the way the PMTA process is structured, the Deeming Regs are specifically written to be a de facto ban for all manufacturers but BT. They might not be outright prohibition, but they're close enough to completely destroy the thriving free market we've all enjoyed the benefits of.

No money will be lost because everyone expects that when overpriced BT cig-a-likes are all that's commonly available; cigarette sales will go back up.