Weight gain? But other Great Benefits

[Tonyrat]

Dracorana, a couple of things...

1. In the first post where I mentioned the BIA body fat scanners/scales (in answer to another user's question) I had thought that I was extremely clear that their accuracy isn't the same as a DEXA scan (which is SPOT ON)... but assuming you measure under the same exact conditions every time (including what you eat AND DRINK up 24-48 hours prior, as hydration and the contents of your digestive system do play a role, quite naturally... especially hydration since muscle tissue is composed mostly of water, which is why BIA works at all), then the DIFFERENCE (or rather, then trend over time) is INDEED accurate, which is kind of the whole point... to monitor your progress. So far, that's proven 100% true for me, and many others that have successfully used them by following those simple rules. Bottom line: they're great for monitoring body fat progress, and I would encourage ANYONE to use such a device if they're interested in monitoring CHANGES to their body composition to ensure that they're losing the right kind of weight... either that or they're welcome to get the right baseline every single time for $200 a week getting weekly DEXA scans (well, I weigh in once a week, so that's what it would cost ME)... hmm... anyhow, lol, either way, as long as the CHANGES are accurately monitored, then you're good to go. If I wasn't clear on my first post about BIA, then I apologize. (Incidentally, BIA is far more accurate than calipers... do some research on it... there's a wide discrepancy in caliper results between both the person taking the measurements, AND in where the fat is stored, as that varies from person to person as well, so the skin folds that are actually measured don't necessarily contain the right proportion of fat for everyone given a set body composition... BIA is light years ahead of calipers, not to mention much more convenient.)

2. You mentioned ketogenic diets... to be honest, I get kind of worried when people talk about those... PLEASE be SUPER CAREFUL with such diets... they do cause momentary loss of body fat, but they can be highly dangerous. Ketosis is not something to mess around with, because in order for your body to enter into that state you have to be void of carbohydrates (or at least in extremely short supply of them)... which means you're eating a lot of protein and fat. (Besides, you can't stay off of carbs forever, or you'll die... once your body runs out of body fat and can't produce ketones anymore, there's no more energy to be had, so it will then take it from vital systems until you die.) Of course, all of the various no-carb and low-carb diets out there know this and reintroduce carbs gradually, but there's still a lot of risk involved, especially for the obese and those with heart conditions. If I had started such a diet when I was 410 lbs, I probably would have died, since those diets nearly always see a massive spike in blood cholesterol until enough weight comes off to see the levels drop back down. This is why the American Heart Association and other reputable organizations have adivsed very strongly against such diets. Like I said, there's NO magic bullet. If you want to lose the right, healthy, and safe way with permanent results in mind... then you have to eat right, put in fewer calories than you burn with a combination of exercise and gentle calorie restriction, ensuring that your nutrition is sound and balanced. If you don't do it the right way, chances are excellent that you'll either hurt yourself, and/or gain all the weight back (so called "yo yo" dieting)... or in the best case, lose weight too quickly during the short term, more quicky than the skin can handle, and deal with extremely loose skin afterwards. Diets like this are fundamentally flawed in the sense that they are an exception to how you plan to eat for the rest of your life... so once "off" the diet, you "eat normal", resulting in old habits usually coming back, and so the fat does too... the psychology of it is simply flawed from the onset... it is far better to eat right, and to do so for the rest of your life... make the change permanent, and you will lose the weight naturally, and keep it off! The United States is undergoing an obesity epidemic... and since the introduction of all these fad diets, the problem hasn't gotten better, it's gotten worse. The real irony is that there are many organizations and government bodies, loaded to the gills with thousands of doctors and medical practitioners that are all screaming "eat right and exercise!!", but dieters almost always go with the single practitioner that says "I have the secret to your weight loss success"... it's ironic because the answer to this growing problem (literally and figuratively) has been right in front of everyone for ages... eat right and exercise. Period.

So if you choose to not eat right, but use a fad diet instead (which is your choice and your right), I just want to encourage you to please be super careful with that and do it under the supervision of your doctor.

 

[Dracorana]

2. You mentioned ketogenic diets... to be honest, I get kind of worried when people talk about those... PLEASE be SUPER CAREFUL with such diets... they do cause momentary loss of body fat, but they can be highly dangerous. Ketosis is not something to mess around with, because in order for your body to enter into that state you have to be void of carbohydrates (or at least in extremely short supply of them)... which means you're eating a lot of protein and fat. (Besides, you can't stay off of carbs forever, or you'll die... once your body runs out of body fat and can't produce ketones anymore, there's no more energy to be had, so it will then take it from vital systems until you die.) Of course, all of the various no-carb and low-carb diets out there know this and reintroduce carbs gradually, but there's still a lot of risk involved, especially for the obese and those with heart conditions. If I had started such a diet when I was 410 lbs, I probably would have died, since those diets nearly always see a massive spike in blood cholesterol until enough weight comes off to see the levels drop back down. This is why the American Heart Association and other reputable organizations have adivsed very strongly against such diets. Like I said, there's NO magic bullet. If you want to lose the right, healthy, and safe way with permanent results in mind... then you have to eat right, put in fewer calories than you burn with a combination of exercise and gentle calorie restriction, ensuring that your nutrition is sound and balanced. If you don't do it the right way, chances are excellent that you'll either hurt yourself, and/or gain all the weight back (so called "yo yo" dieting)... or in the best case, lose weight too quickly during the short term, more quicky than the skin can handle, and deal with extremely loose skin afterwards. Diets like this are fundamentally flawed in the sense that they are an exception to how you plan to eat for the rest of your life... so once "off" the diet, you "eat normal", resulting in old habits usually coming back, and so the fat does too... the psychology of it is simply flawed from the onset... it is far better to eat right, and to do so for the rest of your life... make the change permanent, and you will lose the weight naturally, and keep it off! The United States is undergoing an obesity epidemic... and since the introduction of all these fad diets, the problem hasn't gotten better, it's gotten worse. The real irony is that there are many organizations and government bodies, loaded to the gills with thousands of doctors and medical practitioners that are all screaming "eat right and exercise!!", but dieters almost always go with the single practitioner that says "I have the secret to your weight loss success"... it's ironic because the answer to this growing problem (literally and figuratively) has been right in front of everyone for ages... eat right and exercise. Period.

So if you choose to not eat right, but use a fad diet instead (which is your choice and your right), I just want to encourage you to please be super careful with that and do it under the supervision of your doctor.

Wow. Okay. To start off it's scary when someone only has a small amount of information on a subject and yet states their opinion as fact. There are other people here reading this thread so i do wish that you would at least do more research before saying something that they might decide to believe as a truth. Let me try and address some of the things that you stated that are false.
Lets start with Ketosis. Ketosis is not dangerous, what is dangerous is Ketoacidosis which is an uncontrolled form or Ketosis most commonly found in diabetics and alcoholics. If your body produces insulin normally then this should never be an issue for you.
You were correct in saying that your body can not run on ketones forever, and it's not intended to, nor is it advised in any diet that is based on ketogenesis. For most people, even the obese, a ketogenic diet does NOT spike cholesterol initially! This is FALSE. Look at South Beach for an example, this diet recommends only healthy fats, lean proteins, and carbohydrates derived from veggies as opposed to white flour and starches. Now if you are going to eat a dozen eggs for breakfast fried in butter and a pound of bacon etc for each meal(as some of the media and scare tactic articles would have you believe)then you are being irresponsible and not following the diet properly and honestly only asking for trouble.
The American Heart Association still believes the food pyramid works too, and any nutritionist will tell you that it's outdated and not conducive to healthy weight loss.
I don't believe most people are looking for a "magic bullet" but some of us prefer to work with our bodies capabilities, and your body can work off of a diet based on ketogenesis very well. You would be amazed how many nutritionists and Doctors in general who understand how nutrition works recommend an Atkins/South Beach type of diet.
You are outright incorrect where you state that diets like this are fundamentally flawed and that one cannot continue in a manner of eating like this forever. No diet(or change of lifestyle)based on Ketogenesis is difficult to maintain on a long term basis and it is reckless for you to advise others that they are. As you are still loosing you are also learning to increase the level of healthy carbohydrates you eat so as to make maintenance when you reach your goal just as easy as it would be with any other means of weight loss. Are your carbs always somewhat restricted? Yes, does that mean I have to think about how I want to spend them for the day and make decisions based on healthier choices? Yes. Same thing most will do for their entirety with calories.
You also went onto to state that once off the diet old eating habits come back etc and so does the weight. This is true of ANY DIET. You must change your lifestyle! End of story.
All I ask is that you please don't misinform people that Ketogenic diets are "Fad" diets or that someone changing their life to a more ketogenic lifestyle is eating "wrong" because both of these are inaccurate. Not to mention I personally would advise anyone who intends to alter their lifestyle by changing their diet or increasing their exercise to consult with their physician before and during to monitor how they are doing.

 

[daphne]

My theory is that everything tastes so good that you can't stop eating...or that you finally have money to buy lots of food.

I haven't tried it yet, but I have one on order. If I enjoy it, I won't mind a few extra pounds.

 

[Metstoo]

Thank you Metstoo!
Alright, first off... hypothyroidism doesn't mean you can't lose weight, it only means your RMR (resting metabolic rate - your rate of calorie consumption for only life's most essential functions - breathing, heart beating, etc.) may be a little lower than "normal".

I would suggest that you check out this site that I use for RMR info and to know how much you're likely to burn under normal conditions with and/or without various forms of exercise: Calories Burned, BMI, BMR & RMR Calculator | CaloriesPerHour.com If you enter your gender, current weight, height, and age, it will give you a pretty good guess what your RMR is. For example, a 40-year old woman that's 5'5" and 160 lbs will have a RMR of 1,397 calories per day. That means if she consumes 1,397 calories per day, and doesn't do any activity, she'll maintain her weight... assuming normal physiology otherwise. I don't know what your stats are, but if you were eating 1,400 calories a day, unless you're pretty big and/or pretty tall, you may find that cardio 3 times a week will not cause very fast weight loss... even if you burned an extra 1,750 calories a week, then it will take 6 weeks to lose 3 pounds... which seems consistent with what you said you did. (And btw... ANY weight loss, even 3 lbs over 5 or 6 weeks... is GREAT PROGRESS... DON'T GIVE UP!! Just imagine after a year (52 weeks) how that 3 lbs turns into 30 lbs lost!! Besides, losing too fast (as a percentage of body weight lost) can be very, very unhealthy... slow weight loss is DEFINITELY better for your health. Oh, and about the inches... you have NO choice where the fat comes from... eventually it will all go, but not necessarily from where you want it to come from, i.e. stomach right when you want it. For example, I noticed in the past 2 weeks... no change in waist size, but the skin on my arms is a good bit thinner... go figure!!)

If you do have a hypothyroid condition, then your RMR will be a bit lower, and that may be something out of your control... so up the calorie burn. Longer low-intensity cardio sessions will burn MANY calories without as much perceived effort.. it just takes more time, that's all. Plus, add resistence training (weight lifting) to put on lean tissue... this will trade fat for muscle, and you won't look like a body builder (that's not possible without EXTREME EFFORT)... you'll just look super healthy. So even if your weight doesn't change, who cares? As long as your body fat has been lowered and you look and feel healthier than ever.

There's really so much more to learn, but I hope that gets your started... if you really want to keep the weight off, or lose some, etc., learn as much as you can... and keep track of all your results... and you'll find out that even with hypothyroidism, you can acheive your goals.

Wow again! Thanks so much for your tips!

Re: Hypothyroidism... I do know that you can lose weight with hypothyroidism and I've done a great deal of reading and researching on the subject. Because the thyroid regulates the speed at which your cells do their daily business, it can and does have a vital part to play in weight and metabolism. Hypothyroidism, adrenal fatigue and insulin resistance tend to go hand in hand and make losing weight very difficult.

So, yes, as you have said, the laws of physics demand that less fuel and more energy will make you lose weight! Very true! However, an under-active thyroid can and will slow down the timing on that equation. That whole 'energy' part gets out of whack. One of the main symptoms is chronic fatigue. Exercise does not energize someone with hypothyroidism and exhaustion is a major factor. I know that exercise helps with every aspect of my health so I have made a concerted effort to get to the gym 2-3 times a week. The kicker is... I usually have to get a nap in after work if I want enough energy to get there and do my workouts! I don't get energized by my workouts. It is exhausting! I do, however, feel the benefits in a much more generalized way in that I feel a bit leaner and stronger overall. That is the only thing that has kept me going since last August when I began at my gym. (I love walking! But I have developed neuromas in my feet so I joined the gym to get other forms of exercise.)

Re: Calculator... Thank you very much for the calculator link! I checked it out and this is what I got:

The results of your calculations are: BMR 1,482 RMR 1,401 (calories)

So you were damn near spot on! The calculator went on to note the activity levels to factor in and I would say mine was "Lightly Active" with the results:

Lightly Active BMR: 2,038 RMR: 1,926

So by this calculation, you could be right and I was not cutting enough calories for my RMR and all. I know 3 pounds is not bad but... I wanted at least 6! That's not too much to ask for 5 weeks!


I must admit that it was discouraging and it coincided with the impending doom we are all going through at the Space center so the emotional eating (not just mine!) at work the past two weeks has been ridiculous. Even so, I have not gone nuts and I have only put on a pound or 2 since then. I normally eat very healthy! Very little processed foods and light on the whole grains. Still have a bit of a sugar habit but I'm working on that.

All in all, I don't really gain alot of weight and have maintained here for several years. Most of my weight is in my hips and thighs so there is not alot of belly fat to worry about, which is statistically healthier. I'm 5'4" and need to lose about 30 lbs. Even if I don't lose that weight, per se, I'd just like to feel better.

And that brings me full circle back to vaping! I'm almost off my analogs and happily vaping so that is very encouraging to me.

Again, thanks for all the tips!

 

[wave42]

You were correct in saying that your body can not run on ketones forever, and it's not intended to, nor is it advised in any diet that is based on ketogenesis. For most people, even the obese, a ketogenic diet does NOT spike cholesterol initially! This is FALSE. Look at South Beach for an example, this diet recommends only healthy fats, lean proteins, and carbohydrates derived from veggies as opposed to white flour and starches. Now if you are going to eat a dozen eggs for breakfast fried in butter and a pound of bacon etc for each meal(as some of the media and scare tactic articles would have you believe)then you are being irresponsible and not following the diet properly and honestly only asking for trouble.

I eat liberal amounts of bacon, I eat about 3 dozen eggs per week and I've been on a very low carb "ketogenic" diet for 10 years. I went on that "diet" because I have a family history of heart disease, was 60 lbs overweight and had sky high triglycerides. Within 6 months, the weight was gone and I had a blood lipid profile that is the envy of my doctor...who is still overweight and taking statins, despite telling me my diet hasn't been proven "safe".

 

[Tonyrat]

I eat liberal amounts of bacon, I eat about 3 dozen eggs per week and I've been on a very low carb "ketogenic" diet for 10 years. I went on that "diet" because I have a family history of heart disease, was 60 lbs overweight and had sky high triglycerides. Within 6 months, the weight was gone and I had a blood lipid profile that is the envy of my doctor...who is still overweight and taking statins, despite telling me my diet hasn't been proven "safe".

wave42 - I'm really glad to hear that your diet has so dramatically improved your health... and it's always ironic when one's particular chemistry defies conventional widom. (Must eat that doctor of yours up!) I read this article on this guy that basically ate whatever he wanted, but not out of habit, but learned to "listen" to his body and give it what he was craving... for him it totally worked, and he went from giant spud to super stud in like a year... without any loose skin whatsoever... his pictures are amazing! So, yeah, it happens... and I'm glad it does. Unfortunately, most people aren't so "in tune" with their bodies, and there's bound to be ways that work well for some, and not others... BUT... good old fashion nutrition and excercise will work for everyone without exception...

 

[oldbroad]

I'm still a newbie, of course. I've got an SD now and a Janty Stick on the way. I've been analog free since August 1. I've "tried" to smoke an analog twice sincethen, but put it out after a puff or 3. I just really prefer vaping, hands down. I'm getting back a keen sense of smell and taste. But here's my question, I also got a sudden wieght gain of 10 pounds. I was wondering if anybody else got this? I'm willing to work with it, since Im feeling better in so many ways, I was just wondering if it was just me overeating or if it was like they say you'll gain if you quit smoking? I used to smoke over a pack a day. Also, and don't think I'm crazy, but I think my hearing is better, too. Maybe with the junk out of my sinuses my ears work better.

lol...if you're crazy, then so am i, cuz i swear my hearing's improved, too!
Plus my taste and smell...I've gained about 14 lbs. since Oct, "09...but I feel so healthy!
And I've been having strong urges to walk, which I do. Not very far, but hey, I've been a couch spud for about 15 years,lol

 

[Tonyrat]

Well, frankly, I'm not in the mood to get into a flame war... so this will be my last posting on the subject of ketosis... respond or don't... this is my last response either way.

Wow. Okay. To start off it's scary when someone only has a small amount of information on a subject and yet states their opinion as fact. There are other people here reading this thread so i do wish that you would at least do more research before saying something that they might decide to believe as a truth.

Oooookay... play nice now, Dracorana... for your information, I HAVE done an immense amount of research on all areas related to weight loss, nutrition, and exercise, INCLUDING ketogenic diets, which was prompted by my initial interest in the Atkins Diet last summer. I've spent thousands of hours over the past year just reading... all sides related to all things weight control and health as I could... I've also spoken with nutrutionists, doctors, nurses, trainers, and various athletes as well. I've never been the kind of person to "drink the kool aid"... I am naturally skeptical and I research from many points of view to get to the truth.

Just because you apparently drank the kool aid (per your adamant and accusatory defense) and think you have a bead on something doesn't mean that someone hasn't "done their research". So don't sit there blatantly accusing someone you don't know of doing or not doing something when in reality you have absolutely NO idea of what I know or do not know... it's just rude to make such an assumption. Especially when I was simply and kindly urging you to be CAREFUL and do it with supervision... something I would recommend to ANYONE on ANY diet... even a conventionally accepted "healthy" diet... but especially one that has been documented to have side effects, and even MORESO a diet that can't be maintained indefinitely. (I am a HUGE believer in the psychology of weight loss being a prime factor in how well it works or doesn't work for a given individual.)

Unless of course you're actually trying to tell me that you know so much more than thousands of health professionals around the globe... so much more than all of them combined that you can speak with such authority that you even know whether someone's done their homework or not just by reading a post or two!! (Now THAT would be TRULY amazing.) Again, it's just... rude... not to mention entirely untrue, as I HAVE done my homework.

Let me try and address some of the things that you stated that are false.
Lets start with Ketosis. Ketosis is not dangerous, what is dangerous is Ketoacidosis which is an uncontrolled form or Ketosis most commonly found in diabetics and alcoholics. If your body produces insulin normally then this should never be an issue for you.
You were correct in saying that your body can not run on ketones forever, and it's not intended to, nor is it advised in any diet that is based on ketogenesis. For most people, even the obese, a ketogenic diet does NOT spike cholesterol initially! This is FALSE. Look at South Beach for an example, this diet recommends only healthy fats, lean proteins, and carbohydrates derived from veggies as opposed to white flour and starches. Now if you are going to eat a dozen eggs for breakfast fried in butter and a pound of bacon etc for each meal(as some of the media and scare tactic articles would have you believe)then you are being irresponsible and not following the diet properly and honestly only asking for trouble.

Okay, about this... first of all... cholestoral spikes are documented (such as this article from the Annals of Internal Medicine documenting a study performed regarding low carb diets by doctors at Duke University Medical Center)... and to be honest, it seems like anything that even questions your favorite diet is simply going to come under fire by you... that's how you're coming across. Why does it come across that way? Simply because what I actually said (re-read my post if need be) was that it "can be highly dangerous"... which you've just admitted to, at least under certain conditions (e.g. quoting: "only asking for trouble")... and since your first post on ketogenic diets was simply "oh hey, you don't NEED to exercise with one of those" (which was recklessly irresponsible for someone that claims to be concerned about others reading this thread, since exercise benefits everyone) and you didn't specify how that's done right if done at all, I found it worthy of a note of caution. That's all there is to it. But if you want to get defensive about it, fine... be my guest.

The American Heart Association still believes the food pyramid works too, and any nutritionist will tell you that it's outdated and not conducive to healthy weight loss.

lol... WOWWWW... ok... here's the thing... the food pyramid has NOTHING TO DO WITH WEIGHT LOSS and NEVER HAS. Any nutritionist that claims it's what it's for is blowing smoke up your bum to sell you their own product or service, or simply ignorant to the facts. Frankly, I would completely disregard any nutritionist the very moment they tossed the concept of BALANCED NUTRITION out the window... because that's what the food pyramid is all about. Weight loss is primarily about ENERGY BALANCE... it's about the physics of energy and mass, not nutrition. Nutrition plays a role, true enough, but you COULD eat 1500 calories of lard a day and still lose weight... you'd die of a heart attack or stroke before long, but you WOULD lose weight before they'd have to bury ya! The food pyramid is about having a simple way to balance one's nutrition within the confines of their daily caloric goals. As far as the food pyramid being "outdated"... FYI - it's been updated recently to reflect the latest in nutritional science, see MyPyramid.gov - United States Department of Agriculture - Home ...but believe whatever you wish. My nearly 200 pounds lost is a testament to eating right and exercise, and I stand by it.

I don't believe most people are looking for a "magic bullet"

...um... omg... are you SERIOUS?? If this were true, that "most people" weren't looking for a magic bullet for weight loss... then there wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar industry surrounding weight loss, including diet pills and the like. Maybe you're not looking for one... but I'd say it's a safe bet that most people are. Most people want to lose weight "now"... not over 12 months or more... in fact, MOST people, when asking about my extreme weight loss ask me what "trick" I used to get it off... seriously... that aptly demonstrates the mentality of the general population... thinking it needs a "trick" or a "special diet"... rather than eating right and exercising.

but some of us prefer to work with our bodies capabilities, and your body can work off of a diet based on ketogenesis very well. You would be amazed how many nutritionists and Doctors in general who understand how nutrition works recommend an Atkins/South Beach type of diet.

This is precisely why I didn't say "hey, you're stuuupid.." lol... I said "please be careful" and "consult your doctor"... it can work... and I know some doctors recommend those, and those docs are probably well aware of their patient's physiology, if it's safe for them, and how to make it a supportable weight loss plan that transitions into healthier eating for permanence. However, mine didn't... he recommended gastric bypass... ugh...told him straight out... "hecccck no". Frankly though, if you do enough reading, the vast majority of medical professionals say the same thing... healthy eating with restricted calories, and exercise.

You are outright incorrect where you state that diets like this are fundamentally flawed and that one cannot continue in a manner of eating like this forever. No diet(or change of lifestyle)based on Ketogenesis is difficult to maintain on a long term basis and it is reckless for you to advise others that they are. As you are still loosing you are also learning to increase the level of healthy carbohydrates you eat so as to make maintenance when you reach your goal just as easy as it would be with any other means of weight loss. Are your carbs always somewhat restricted? Yes, does that mean I have to think about how I want to spend them for the day and make decisions based on healthier choices? Yes. Same thing most will do for their entirety with calories.
You also went onto to state that once off the diet old eating habits come back etc and so does the weight. This is true of ANY DIET. You must change your lifestyle! End of story.

On this point we AGREE... I've been saying that all along, change the lifestyle permanently... the only difference is that I'm saying it's best not to put it off... start eating right TODAY... and exercising TODAY... and stick with it forever and ever... and the weight will be lost, and you'll be healthier. Then there's no need to "get off the diet" later on. Frankly, what I said is absolutely true... they've even coined a term for it... "yo yo dieting"... people get off the diet, and pick up their old habits, and put the fat back on, and are MORE unhealthy for it. And what YOU said is true... the problem exists for ANY "special" diet... other than a permanent change to a new way of eating for the rest of your life, of course.

All I ask is that you please don't misinform people that Ketogenic diets are "Fad" diets or that someone changing their life to a more ketogenic lifestyle is eating "wrong" because both of these are inaccurate. Not to mention I personally would advise anyone who intends to alter their lifestyle by changing their diet or increasing their exercise to consult with their physician before and during to monitor how they are doing.

That's ALL I was encouraging you to do... because ketogenic diets CAN be harmful... not necessarily for everyone, granted, and not under all circumstances... but it CAN be... which you've essentially admitted, which is good enough for me... whereas healthy balanced nutrition is NEVER harmful for anyone, but rather always a good idea. So... all I ask is that you not misrepresent Ketogenic diets as a magic bullet like you did in your first post (but rather advise consulting a physician for such a program, which you finally did in your most recent post)... quoting: "a strict ketogenic diet you don't really even need exercise", which is misleading, to say the least, and then follow it up with rudely put and entirely untrue attacks like "you didn't do any research". Such statements just SCREAM "magic bullet" and "I drank the kool aid". Sorry, but it does.

Again, this is my last post on this subject... sorry, but I've said what I need to say, people reading will either do their own research and come to their own conclusions, or they won't. I for one hope they do.

 

[Tonyrat]

Wow again! Thanks so much for your tips!

Quite welcome

Re: Hypothyroidism... I do know that you can lose weight with hypothyroidism and I've done a great deal of reading and researching on the subject. Because the thyroid regulates the speed at which your cells do their daily business, it can and does have a vital part to play in weight and metabolism. Hypothyroidism, adrenal fatigue and insulin resistance tend to go hand in hand and make losing weight very difficult. So, yes, as you have said, the laws of physics demand that less fuel and more energy will make you lose weight! Very true! However, an under-active thyroid can and will slow down the timing on that equation. That whole 'energy' part gets out of whack. One of the main symptoms is chronic fatigue. Exercise does not energize someone with hypothyroidism and exhaustion is a major factor. I know that exercise helps with every aspect of my health so I have made a concerted effort to get to the gym 2-3 times a week. The kicker is... I usually have to get a nap in after work if I want enough energy to get there and do my workouts! I don't get energized by my workouts. It is exhausting! I do, however, feel the benefits in a much more generalized way in that I feel a bit leaner and stronger overall. That is the only thing that has kept me going since last August when I began at my gym. (I love walking! But I have developed neuromas in my feet so I joined the gym to get other forms of exercise.)

awww... I'd bet that can be frustrating... maybe your doc can help you with some appropriate [non-toxic] stimulation to help with that...? Oh, and if you have a Y nearby, join it and use the POOL... swimming burns massive amounts of calories, and won't bug your feet! Just a thought!

Re: Calculator... Thank you very much for the calculator link! I checked it out and this is what I got:

The results of your calculations are: BMR 1,482 RMR 1,401 (calories)

So you were damn near spot on! The calculator went on to note the activity levels to factor in and I would say mine was "Lightly Active" with the results:

Lightly Active BMR: 2,038 RMR: 1,926

So by this calculation, you could be right and I was not cutting enough calories for my RMR and all. I know 3 pounds is not bad but... I wanted at least 6! That's not too much to ask for 5 weeks!

lmao!! Yeah, know what you mean... right now I'm in a maintenance cycle building lean tissue (weight training) to up my efficiciency, so I'm not losing weight at ALL really for a couple weeks... wish I was, especially how hard I've been working

I must admit that it was discouraging and it coincided with the impending doom we are all going through at the Space center so the emotional eating (not just mine!) at work the past two weeks has been ridiculous. Even so, I have not gone nuts and I have only put on a pound or 2 since then. I normally eat very healthy! Very little processed foods and light on the whole grains. Still have a bit of a sugar habit but I'm working on that.

All in all, I don't really gain alot of weight and have maintained here for several years. Most of my weight is in my hips and thighs so there is not alot of belly fat to worry about, which is statistically healthier. I'm 5'4" and need to lose about 30 lbs. Even if I don't lose that weight, per se, I'd just like to feel better.

And that brings me full circle back to vaping! I'm almost off my analogs and happily vaping so that is very encouraging to me.

Again, thanks for all the tips!

Again, very welcome... and I wish you the VERY best of luck!!!

 

[Dracorana]

I will not be making my reply personal as it is more important to me that this information be available to people who might wish to know more, and Tony, I thank you for not replying because it is time consuming for me to have to make all these corrections. I will also be removing all the personal jibes as they are irrelevant and only quoting the direct fallacies.

and even MORESO a diet that can't be maintained indefinitely.

Okay, this is untrue. I need to state that just because one person doesn't see it as feasible to indefinitely maintain a lifestyle of lean protein, healthy fats, veggies high in fiber and whole grains with occasional sweets doesn't mean that there aren't other people who can maintain that lifestyle. The statement above would be akin to me saying that my sister has joined weight watchers several times and has never been able to maintain a weight loss afterward. Does that mean that weight watchers doesn't work? Absolutely not, just that it didn't work for her.

Okay, about this... first of all... cholestoral spikes are documented (such as this article from the Annals of Internal Medicine documenting a study performed regarding low carb diets by doctors at Duke University Medical Center)

From that article, which I do recommend anyone read as it has some very good information in it, the following from their results section so anyone interested can see the actual numbers for the "spike" in comparison to the change in those doing a low fat diet.

" Results: A greater proportion of the low-carbohydrate diet group than the low-fat diet group completed the study (76% vs. 57%; P = 0.02). At 24 weeks, weight loss was greater in the low-carbohydrate diet group than in the low-fat diet group (mean change, −12.9% vs. −6.7%; P < 0.001). Patients in both groups lost substantially more fat mass (change, −9.4 kg with the low-carbohydrate diet vs. −4.8 kg with the low-fat diet) than fat-free mass (change, −3.3 kg vs. −2.4 kg, respectively). Compared with recipients of the low-fat diet, recipients of the low-carbohydrate diet had greater decreases in serum triglyceride levels (change, −0.84 mmol/L vs. −0.31 mmol/L [−74.2 mg/dL vs. −27.9 mg/dL]; P = 0.004) and greater increases in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (0.14 mmol/L vs. −0.04 mmol/L [5.5 mg/dL vs. −1.6 mg/dL]; P < 0.001). Changes in low-density lipoprotein cholesterol level did not differ statistically (0.04 mmol/L [1.6 mg/dL] with the low-carbohydrate diet and −0.19 mmol/L [−7.4 mg/dL] with the low-fat diet; P = 0.2). Minor adverse effects were more frequent in the low-carbohydrate diet group. "

what I actually said (re-read my post if need be) was that it "can be highly dangerous"... which you've just admitted to, at least under certain conditions (e.g. quoting: "only asking for trouble")... and since your first post on ketogenic diets was simply "oh hey, you don't NEED to exercise with one of those"

ANY modification to diet that is approached without proper information can be dangerous. Even a "healthy" low fat diet can be dangerous if people over restrict which happens all the time.

Yes, i absolutely did say that exercise is not necessary to lose weight. This isn't a fallacy. Is it the best thing to do? No, if someone is loosing weight to be healthier then by all means be healthier! Get active! But is it possible to lose fat without exercise? That's a resounding YES.

My nearly 200 pounds lost is a testament to eating right and exercise, and I stand by it.

I would just like to state here that if it ever came across that I was knocking Tony's achievement or weight loss in any way, that was not my intention. He has very obviously changed his life for the better, and I wish him all the continued success in the world.

I said "please be careful" and "consult your doctor"... it can work... and I know some doctors recommend those, and those docs are probably well aware of their patient's physiology, if it's safe for them, and how to make it a supportable weight loss plan that transitions into healthier eating for permanence.

This was fine until the end. While I am aware I am repeating myself, the study you linked to above stated that those on a lower carb type of diet actually stuck with it more so than those on a low fat diet. A lower carbohydrate diet is healthy, so no need to transition into healthy eating.

If I made ketogenic diets sound like a magic bullet when I said that excercise wasn't necessary for fat loss, that wasn't my goal. The point I was trying to make is that when eating low fat, sure, some of what you lose is fat, but not all of it, and exercise is more a necessity for the mobilization of fat on a low fat diet. With a ketogenic diet though your body is mobilizing the fat on it's own to use as fuel for your energy as opposed to carbohydrates, so fat loss with or without exercise is the truth. Again, I still suggest that anyone who wants to truly change their life and become healthier should become more active.

Just want to end this by saying that any diet can contain risks, and I encourage any and all who are interested in living a healthier life to do research on their own and speak with their doctors as well. Please don't take my word or any other posters on what is the best way since honestly we are all biased as we sing the song of what has worked for us and changed our lives.

 

[lopster]

2 weeks of analog's im doin p90x. people have said great things about it. so i will prolly gain weight... but in a good way!

 

[Tonyrat]

2 weeks of analog's im doin p90x. people have said great things about it. so i will prolly gain weight... but in a good way!

lopster... AWESOME on being off analogs Great feeling, isn't it? And please... keep me posted on how your P90x workouts are going... I'd love to get a blow by blow before I start it here in a month or two.