Welcome to prohibition!

[VIVAP2]

What is the total population of vapers in Canada, including those who are about to do the move?

What is ECTA real weight on the governemental agenda?
Do you know that there are still a lot of smokers out there partially to totaly ignorant about e-cigs?
And what is the smoker portion of the total population? 30% at the very most?
Why are we still seeing someone taking a drag of a cigarette in many different movies/series?

Yeah! A small group of individual is claiming to have an alternative to smoking that will blow up the governement's tax return budget short of billions per year for the next 25 years but wait, it's worth it! It will extand the life of how many thousands of smokers? And save how many billions of dollars on the healthcare system? (for which can't be discussed by definition as e-cigs can't make any health claims)

Tie up your hat with steel wire as this debate will last for decades.

Good Luck!

 

[chaseman]

What is the total population of vapers in Canada, including those who are about to do the move?

What is ECTA real weight on the governemental agenda?
Do you know that there are still a lot of smokers out there partially to totaly ignorant about e-cigs?
And what is the smoker portion of the total population? 30% at the very most?
Why are we still seeing someone taking a drag of a cigarette in many different movies/series?

Yeah! A small group of individual is claiming to have an alternative to smoking that will blow up the governement's tax return budget short of billions per year for the next 25 years but wait, it's worth it! It will extand the life of how many thousands of smokers? And save how many billions of dollars on the healthcare system? (for which can't be discussed by definition as e-cigs can't make any health claims)

Tie up your hat with steel wire as this debate will last for decades.

Good Luck!

Someone get this man a gold star!!

We need more honesty and serious discussion about these things.

It's the revolving door of shutdowns, new dirty companies, bathtub brewers and selfish consumers that only care about dirt cheap pricing and the ability to stock up for the future for themselves!

It's funny how defensive people are of the business community's inability to see past next weeks sales and the money they shove in their pockets.
"But they're so cute and cottagey and
cuddly and it's Mr awesome and his sweet wife darling Erma Ray sunshine-up-your-.... McGee and they're doing a really nice thing here for the community making that liquid in their laundry sink." phooey.

Didn't they know they'd be in for a battle, need lawyers, at the very least need to purport themselves as legal Canadian companies?

But no.....special privileges and accolades for the soap box preachers and businesses who should have realized that selling drugs get you into trouble, especially in a barely labeled dot matrix printer stickered bottle brewed in the kitchen where "the Kraft dinner incident" occurred the night before. Even more especially, drugs that have lobbyists longer than our entire nation of vapers.

Please, write your letters and protect your businesses and don't pay your taxes or customs/duty/brokerage or declare your product and import drugs and mix them up. Please drive our prices into the ground! Please put garbage in a bottle with no labeling or dating or lot batch or ingredients or facility or chemist etc etc. Please defend this as good business practice and a great way to ensure our product's future. I'm sure this will be won any day now. How could it not? Shame on us!

This had gone on way too long!

How many more shutdowns do we need?

"Ya know, Jean....if we get 13 more letters from those vapers, we're gonna have to legalize this e cig thing. We hate tax money anyway, who needs it? Especially in Canada."
- Fictitious HC dude who hates tax money and money....and money.

"You do this to yourself, you do. And that's what really hurts." - Thom Yorke

 

[Ms. Creant]

We may not be able to advertise health claims for e-cigs but I believe contrasting analogs to ecigs is not prohibited. I.E. Cigarettes produce thousands of chemicals upon combustion of tobacco; egigs do not require combustion, only vaporization of 2 - 4 ingredients. No health claims, only facts.

 

[VIVAP2]

JC got shot down. I thought JC was a reputable supplier. So what does it have to do with a cowboy way of doing DIY ?

chaseman; "You do this to yourself, you do. And that's what really hurts."

 

[chaseman]

JC got shot down. I thought JC was a reputable supplier. So what does it have to do with a cowboy way of doing DIY ?

chaseman; "You do this to yourself, you do. And that's what really hurts."

Firstly, the gold star wasn't an exaggeration. I loved your post. Secondly, the Radiohead comment wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you misinterpreted my post, perhaps I shouldn't have quoted your post.

Ummmm....okay then. Yup, they were a reputable supplier.....or not.

 

[tomknotts]

Do you guys remember the 'fake cig' problem we have in canada... people are brining in cigs with out paying duty on them... now according to hc these products are dangerous of course they are they are cigs. The reason people are getting shut down and ecig are being claimed as dangerous is because the gov cant tax them like cigs.

I dont think we can ever win this fight as long as the gove can make money of killing people. I will get .....ing to hc and gove but this is how i see things with the gove

 

[VIVAP2]

Or not? I dare the most serious liquid maker to share one picture of what he thinks being the most critical step of making liquid to see if it's in a lab or in a shed. Are you a black market chemist? A chemist can't declare nicotine based liquid in its tax report. We are in a prohibition mode. Serious or not, it's an underground market.

 

[DevilFishPhil]

Random thought:

I'm curious why we're so focused on the fact that e-juice vendors are mixing up juices without proper accreditation or in their kitchen, you do realize that things are no different in the US or anywhere else in the world. Do you really think that Dave and Pamela of FreedomSmokeUSA are trained chemists and mixing their juices in a sterile laboratory environment? Or any of the other vendors for that matter? They're mixing up their juices in the exact same fashion as our Canadian vendors, and clearly that wasn't an issue in getting the FDA decision overruled....

 

[mwa102464]

It's a market with politicians all on the take is what it is, these politicians are taking MAJOR KICKBACKS from big Tobacco, Big Pharma, and others to shut this down, same here in the States the Govt is trying to do the same dam thing and our politicians are on the take as well, it's totally disgusting that these people are supposed to represent all of us, it's obvious they dont want a cure for cancer there is way to much money being made on all the drugs, treatments, Taxes, the chain goes on and on besides just taxes of monies that they dont want to lose so what's the next best thing they can do Ban it, screw that,, either way all of us need to protest and speak up and get loud about this whole dam thing EVERYWHERE just like the people did with the SOPA Bill they just tried to pass, the people got loud and fast and shut it down, I feel for you guys up in Canada and believe me we have a major battle coming down here in the United States next. We need more studies and Attorneys, Dr's and other professionals on our side in order to fight this thing and beat it.

 

[chaseman]

You are correct, this is preemptive prohibition, however, I believe HC's stance is opposite the law. This can only be proven with a capable lawyer. This capable lawyer will have a more sizable sum of money than you can imagine, as HC will dictate the format for appeal or attack.

No company here seems to have been educated on this prior to opening their business.

Either it's been blissful ignorance, or brazen opposition, with no intent to put the hard earned after tax dollars of our consumers to a viable product or fight.

 

[chaseman]

Random thought:

I'm curious why we're so focused on the fact that e-juice vendors are mixing up juices without proper accreditation or in their kitchen, you do realize that things are no different in the US or anywhere else in the world. Do you really think that Dave and Pamela of FreedomSmokeUSA are trained chemists and mixing their juices in a sterile laboratory environment? Or any of the other vendors for that matter? They're mixing up their juices in the exact same fashion as our Canadian vendors, and clearly that wasn't an issue in getting the FDA decision overruled....

We continually use these companies as examples in Canada because they sell or make (mix) the drugs. HC Only truly cares about the drug, much like ourselves. Without it they have a taxable toy or a higher taxable license paid toy. Win/Win

I couldn't say whether FSUSA has a chemist or not but I can say it certainly wasn't they who won against the FDA. A chemist will only be a fragment of the compliances needed to exist in the regulated e cig (indistinguishable from a cigarette?) world of the future.

The fight in the USA isn't over, even though they're much farther along than ourselves. Just wait until proper regulation comes out and 90% of the companies are shut down for inability to comply. Then wait for the fight to entirely ban nicotine sales online. This is a calm before the storm where the lobbyists get their act together to ensure tax dollars continually flow from the right industries without a penny lost. This is all too classic.

It's plain to see how this will play out but what is more than evident is that companies in the US weren't blindly ignorant to the fact that they were up agains BP and BT when they started saving their dollars for the lawyers that charged them exorbitantly for the right to continue to pay and fight some more.

I wish I could say the same for our previous and soon to be departed companies.

 

[VIVAP2]

[...]This capable lawyer will have a more sizable sum of money than you can imagine, as HC will dictate the format for appeal or attack. [...]

I'll admit that it's a begining... Though too much money involved.

 

[mikeinbc]

Someone get this man a gold star!!

We need more honesty and serious discussion about these things.

It's the revolving door of shutdowns, new dirty companies, bathtub brewers and selfish consumers that only care about dirt cheap pricing and the ability to stock up for the future for themselves!

It's funny how defensive people are of the business community's inability to see past next weeks sales and the money they shove in their pockets.
"But they're so cute and cottagey and
cuddly and it's Mr awesome and his sweet wife darling Erma Ray sunshine-up-your-.... McGee and they're doing a really nice thing here for the community making that liquid in their laundry sink." phooey.

Didn't they know they'd be in for a battle, need lawyers, at the very least need to purport themselves as legal Canadian companies?

But no.....special privileges and accolades for the soap box preachers and businesses who should have realized that selling drugs get you into trouble, especially in a barely labeled dot matrix printer stickered bottle brewed in the kitchen where "the Kraft dinner incident" occurred the night before. Even more especially, drugs that have lobbyists longer than our entire nation of vapers.

Please, write your letters and protect your businesses and don't pay your taxes or customs/duty/brokerage or declare your product and import drugs and mix them up. Please drive our prices into the ground! Please put garbage in a bottle with no labeling or dating or lot batch or ingredients or facility or chemist etc etc. Please defend this as good business practice and a great way to ensure our product's future. I'm sure this will be won any day now. How could it not? Shame on us!

This had gone on way too long!

How many more shutdowns do we need?

"Ya know, Jean....if we get 13 more letters from those vapers, we're gonna have to legalize this e cig thing. We hate tax money anyway, who needs it? Especially in Canada."
- Fictitious HC dude who hates tax money and money....and money.

"You do this to yourself, you do. And that's what really hurts." - Thom Yorke

Did you get Thom Yorkes's permission to use his song lyrics? If not, I would advise you to send a petition letter to stop Bill C-11 (Canada's SOPA)
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-stop-bill-c-11-canadas-sopa.html#post5153985

 

[chaseman]

It's a very pivotal and interesting time to be alive, to say the least.

 

[kanadiankat]

Or not? I dare the most serious liquid maker to share one picture of what he thinks being the most critical step of making liquid to see if it's in a lab or in a shed. Are you a black market chemist? A chemist can't declare nicotine based liquid in its tax report. We are in a prohibition mode. Serious or not, it's an underground market.

It's not a dare that anyone with reasonable sense would do. Information like that, during any legal or political battle is NEVER made public. Nor should it be.

No one asks their hockey team to publish their moves online prior to a game - just to prove to their fans that they have a strategy.

No one asks a lawyer to publish his entire case on line prior to a trial - just to prove that he knows what he's doing.

And every one knows why.

 

[Switched]