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What am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Cloud Chasers' started by Juggernaut666, Nov 9, 2014.

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  1. Juggernaut666

    Juggernaut666 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2014
    Dallas Tx.
    Rigs.
    1. Stingray X w with copper tobh, 26g 6 wrap dual sleeper coil. .8 ohm, rayon

    2. Nemesis with stillare, 24g 6 wraps dual coils separate. .4 ohm, cotton

    Both hit well, but cloud is same or less than my Provari and Nautilus.....

    Any ideas what I could be doing wrong, I'm a lung hitter. Can hit for as long as I can take it, and still no vapor, not like what I see allot of folks blowing.
     
  2. eyerhere

    eyerhere Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 7, 2013
    Warren Mi
    Is your air hole directly infront of your coils? Pics?
     
  3. Juggernaut666

    Juggernaut666 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2014
    Dallas Tx.
    Yep, one of the first things I checked, even tried current wicking, both have rayon in then now.
     
  4. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    Post a clear picture of your setup if you can Juggernaut. It's hard to cover all the little things that could be issues.
     
  5. Juggernaut666

    Juggernaut666 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2014
    Dallas Tx.
  6. Juggernaut666

    Juggernaut666 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2014
    Dallas Tx.
  7. eyerhere

    eyerhere Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 7, 2013
    Warren Mi
    On the stilair try pressing your coils togther to get contact coils and longer ends on your cotton.
    The tobh I would rip out and rebuild they suck.
     
  8. Juggernaut666

    Juggernaut666 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2014
    Dallas Tx.
    Yeah, was kinda distracted when I did it. LOL.
     
  9. CassiusCloud

    CassiusCloud Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 22, 2014
    U.S.
    maybe raise the coils up more above the well..
    That and more wick,they look like they are wicked kind of loose..
     
  10. Uncletattoowhat

    Uncletattoowhat Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 21, 2014
    Poquoson, VA
    Wrap them around a smaller "bit". They look rather large in diameter. On unregulated single battery devices, smaller diameters heat up quicker.
     
  11. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    I ran this setup through the Steam Engine coil wrapping calculator. Your coil internal diameter is 5mm in order to get the 6/5 wraps I see in the picture. Heat flux (watts per surface area) at 30 watts is quite low, so your coils may not be getting hot enough to make a lot of vapor.

    For 0.3-0.6 ohm dual coil setups I like using 27 gauge Kanthal. I switch to 24 gauge for 0.2 ohms. The thicker the wire the lower the resistance per inch of it. So you can design a thicker, longer wire with high surface area and mass that has the same resistance as a thinner, shorter wire. Too much surface area and you have too little power per square inch to vaporize juice quickly. In this case wire mass also goes up and that means it takes longer for the wire to heat up.

    I would also suggest you go a bit smaller than 5mm ID, say 4mm at most. I currently stay between 2.5-3mm. I can't tell if your coil is centered vertically behind the air slot, but it looks great left to right. Smaller diameter will allow better air flow over and under the coil. I bring the coils reasonably close to the inside of the cap, without risking them touching the cap.

    IMO you have two choices here. Use less 24 gauge wire to make lower resistance or use thinner wire for a 0.4 ohm build. If you have no thinner wire I would try a 0.3 ohm build on a 3mm pin and see how that vapes.

    The amount of cotton you're using looks good to me.

    Make sure your battery can handle the amp draw of your build resistance at 4.2v.
     
  12. bholcomb22

    bholcomb22 Super Member Verified Member

    May 13, 2014
    Denver, CO
    I'm going to second you wrapping around something smaller... The ID of those coils is looking rather large.... It is easier to wick coils with an ID of something like 2 mm.... I would try to find something around 1/8 - 2.4 mm to wrap around.
     
  13. BeerGolfClouds

    BeerGolfClouds Super Member ECF Veteran

    Another +1 for smaller diameter coils. And also contact coils (micro, macro, whatever your poison). Ryedan crushed it out of the park with that post above, can't improve on that much :) OP, what type of juice are you using?
     
  14. Juggernaut666

    Juggernaut666 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2014
    Dallas Tx.
    It was a 2.5mm Allen key that I used to wrap those. That's usually my go to size for most things largest I've ever used was a 3mm.

    And that should've read .2 ohm, not .4 but was actually a tad higher than that for leg length....
     
  15. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    Well, that changes things a bit :rolleyes:

    Here's the Steam Engine calculator with the new data. Your 2.5mm Allen key measures 2.9mm over the corners, though FWIW I still think your coils are bigger than that, but that's just me :). I did have to change the resistance to 0.26 ohms to make the model create a 6/5 wrap.

    It still looks a bit on the high side for surface area, but it's much better than at 0.4 ohms.

    Here's my Mutation X setup at 0.18 ohms. Note the higher heat flux number. It's still a cool vape with only three of nine air holes per side open. It also makes a lot of vapor with more air and full lung hits.

    Here's another build I like in a Cyclone RDA, a small atty. That is a not a vapor beast but it is really good for flavor.

    I think you really need to experiment with different builds and get to know how things work. I've found that getting to know the Steam Engine calculator helps me get close to what I want in new builds without a lot of trial and error, but you have to know how the variables affect your vape for it to help.
     
  16. Thraizer

    Thraizer Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2012
    Nj
    Off topic, that steam engine calculator is pretty neat. I've been using a different calculator which doesn't have a lot of stuff in it but I'm starting to get the hang of it messing with steam engine. Regarding heat flux, on a high power variable watt device that value on the heat flux box is the value that I can set my vw device to?
     
  17. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    FWIW, here's my build on the v3. Same build for .37 ohms on the v2:

    Mech Mod / Sony VCT5
    2 x 28G coils
    7/8 wraps on 2.5mm bit
    Torched using butane and squeezed with ceramic tweezers
    .37 ohms total
    Japanese KGD Cotton
    Chuff 'low' drip tip

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    And a quick video of the results: [video]http://vid1157.photobucket.com/albums/p588/Cameron_Wheler/IMG_5873.mp4[/video]
     
  18. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    You got it Thraizer :thumb:
     
  19. johndoe1027

    johndoe1027 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    NC, USA
    Do you have a VW device set at 60W? I'm running 0.18 in my MX but it's on a mech mod and I get 98W on a full charge. You're still getting more Heat Flux as I'm running parallel 26ga.
     
  20. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    Yes your battery is seeing 98 watts, 23.33 amps, discharge at 4.2V. But your battery has internal resistance and the mod has some resistance also which takes away from what the atty sees. At these power levels you're doing pretty good with voltage across the coils of 3.5v and that's 68 watts.
     
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