What causes lung cancer?

[Exchaner]

Please don't be one of those people who think up a controversial topic in order to attack the group/ ecf establishment.

Attacking the ECF? Hardly. But I do find some members of the ECF, including yourself, sensitive on the subject. They get easily offended the minute you question their addiction... I personally vape myself, but I am open minded enough to know that my addiction might be harmful. I also recognize that vaping is less harmful than smoking, so what is your point?

 

[Exchaner]

Because scientists have isolated the tobacco-specific nitrosamines and other chemicals in smoke that they are reasonably certain cause cancer and have not been able to induce cancer in cells using nicotine alone.

The closest they have to linking nicotine to cancer is one or two small studies that MAY have linked nicotine to aggravating existing cancer cells. Meaning (put very simplistically) that there could be some risk that if you already have cancer tumors, adding nicotine may increase the risk it could get worse. But that research has not even been completed.

Otherwise, they have not been able to tie nicotine to causing any kind of cancer. Which is why the FDA has deemed nicotine gums, patches and inhalers to be safe and why they don't tell us to avoid eggplants and tomatoes.

Additionally, at the population level, 30 years of studies of snus users (a type of smokeless tobacco with a lot of nicotine) show no increased risk of any disease, including cancer.

Thank you. This is exactly the type of answer I was looking for, not just a gut reaction from someone who feels threatened when faced with hard questions. At the risk of further offending some of them still further, here is article that indicates nicotine might be responsible for gum disease. Nicotine and periodontal tissues

 

[Jimi D.]

Nicotine is an alkaloid, and I don't see warning labels on coffee cans.

 

[Sdh]

I read everywhere that vaping is safer than smoking because there is no tar/other chemicals involved in vaping. Where do I look for proof that lung cancer is caused by tar, and not by nicotine?

Does nicotine replacement therapy cause can... [Nicotine Tob Res. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
Long-term Nicotine Replacement Therapy: Cancer Risk in Context
Low-dose nicotine does not promote lung tumors in mouse models - National Cancer Institute
I am just sharing some links. I am not in for debate. Have a great day everyone.

 

[kristin]

Thank you. This is exactly the type of answer I was looking for, not just a gut reaction from someone who feels threatened when faced with hard questions. At the risk of further offending some of them still further, here is article that indicates nicotine might be responsible for gum disease. Nicotine and periodontal tissues

You're welcome.

Here is a study that shows snus users (oral nicotine) did not have a higher risk of periodontal disease. Periodontal disease in relation to smokin... [J Clin Periodontol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

The study you linked had laboratory "indications" that nicotine could be a factor, but the study above shows that it doesn't seem to translate to real-world cases. However, both studies agree that smoking played a large role.

Very often, results at the cell level that show up in a lab fail to surface in real-world cases.

 

[Exchaner]

Here is my final thought on the subject: Until someone shows me incontrovertible proof that nicotine is safe, I will watch my vaping. Same goes with all the other ingredients that go into e liquids. Peace, out.

 

[kristin]

No one can show incontrovertible proof because nothing is "safe." Everything has some risk.

If it concerns you, you have every right to watch your vaping. People should be able to make their own choices about what they use and that includes the choice NOT to use something.

The problem arises when people use the government to make choices for us.

 

[Exchaner]

The problem arises when people use the government to make choices for us.

That is a politically motivated statement at best. If it wasn't for the government, half the kids in this country would be smoking, nagged on by tobacco companies and their free samples.

 

[kristin]

That is a politically motivated statement at best. If it wasn't for the government, almost every kid in the country would be smoking, nagged on by tobacco companies and their free samples.

LOL! You clearly are unaware of who I am and what I do.

That is what the people trying to ban e-cigarettes would like you to believe. Your statement tells me that you have a lot to learn about what has been happening in the world of tobacco control, their ties to the pharmaceutical industry, government addiction to tobacco tax revenue and the abject failure of prohibitionist policies. But that is something one cannot be taught - we have to do the research ourselves to become enlightened of our brainwashing and how we've been deceived for the past 30 years by the very powers who claim to have our best interests at heart. You will think me a conspiracy theorist (as I thought of those who told me the same thing 4 years ago) but there's no way around that. Either you'll be intrigued enough to stick around, be open-minded and learn some things or you will write us all off as crazy.

Best of luck and happy vaping!

 

[Nermal]

Indeed, I myself am living proof that COPD is caused by tobacco products. I suffer from the condition, and have been told by more than one medical expert that smoking is the cause. What they could not tell me however, is which ingredient in cigarettes is responsible for the condition, the Nic or other ingredients. Until we know the answer, we can not say for sure vaping is safe.

Well now, ain't that a hoot. You switched decks on us and hope nobody would notice? You went from absolute statements about everyone knows that nicotine causes emphysema and COPD to a general indictment of tobacco products. That doesn't sound the least bit honest, and in any case, extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. You have offered none.

 

[indoorsindica]

One word... carcinogens...

Additives and filters are the main source along with the actual act of burning tobacco(which is not just nicotine).

 

[TRoxx]

Genetics Allow Cancer to Happen...
Nothing Causes Cancer.

 

[Exchaner]

Hi Kristin, I stand by what I said. If you leave everything to private industry, the profit motive will take over. And as to who you are, you sound to me like a perfectly intelligent individual, regardless of your position. I just happen to disagree with your approach.... You want incontrovertible proof that vaping is unsafe, and I want incontrovertible proof that it is safe. Take for example the report I posted on periodontal disease .... You skipped the first paragraph emphasizing the dangers of nicotine, directly down to the last paragraph consistent with your views. I did just the opposite .... Good luck, and happy vaping.

 

[Exchaner]

Well now, ain't that a hoot. You switched decks on us and hope nobody would notice? You went from absolute statements about everyone knows that nicotine causes emphysema and COPD to a general indictment of tobacco products. That doesn't sound the least bit honest, and in any case, extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. You have offered none.

I stand by what I said. You can smoke all you want. As for me, I will continue treating tobacco products as poison, and the same goes for nicotine. Good luck and happy smoking/vaping.

 

[RobinBanks]

I want incontrovertible proof that it is safe.

I think the point that you are missing is that you will never find incontrovertible proof that anything is safe.

 

[Exchaner]

I think the point that you are missing is that you will never find incontrovertible proof that anything is safe.

Nicotine is not just ANYTHING, it's a poison..... I am done arguing with people who shoot from the hip .....

 

[kristin]

Hi Kristin, I stand by what I said. If you leave everything to private industry, the profit motive will take over. And as to who you are, you sound to me like a perfectly intelligent individual, regardless of your position. I just happen to disagree with your approach.... You want incontrovertible proof that vaping is unsafe, and I want incontrovertible proof that it is safe. Take for example the report I posted on periodontal disease .... You skipped the first paragraph emphasizing the dangers of nicotine, directly down to the last paragraph consistent with your views. I did just the opposite .... Good luck, and happy vaping.

I don't want "incontrovertible" proof of anything. I want any kind of proof vaping isn't a far safer alternative to smoking and more dangerous than many other things in life we consider "reasonably safe."

And I didn't skip anything. I said their nicotine theory didn't translate to real world observations. Nor does this paper convincingly make an argument that nicotine alone would have the same effects.

Nicotine, a major component and most pharmacologically active agent in tobacco is likely to be a significant contributing factor for the exacerbation of periodontal diseases.

That is conjecture and opinion.

Available literature suggests that nicotine affects gingival blood flow, cytokine production, neutrophil and other immune cell function; connective tissue turnover, which can be the possible mechanisms responsible for overall effects of tobacco on periodontal tissues.

This is still a working theory that was not proven by this study.

The first part of the paper emphasizes the dangers of smoking and "tobacco use." Then on page 5 they get to facts about nicotine, not in relation to PD but on other parts of the body. On page 9 they discuss the "local effects of nicotine" but most often they are still referencing smoking as the delivery method. The they cite one hypothesis and right away discount it:

The vasoconstrictive properties of nicotine are hypothesized to impair gingival blood flow; however, studies that have examined the effects of smoking on gingival blood flow in humans have shown either no change or increased flow as measured by laser Doppler flowmetry.[58–60] This may be due to smoking-induced elevation in blood pressure, which overcomes any vasoconstrictive effects of smoking.

Then there is one bit about some lab tests on animals and cells regarding bones and how nicotine may inhibit treatment for PD. Then they discuss dentists getting smokers to quit. Ironically, they recommend smokers use NRT, which contains nicotine!

Finally, they conclude that:

Clinical and epidemiological studies support the concept that tobacco use is an important variable affecting the prevalence and progression of periodontal diseases such as adult periodontitis, refractory periodontitis, generalized early-onset periodontitis, and ANUG.

Nothing about nicotine alone causing PD.

As I explained, their THEORY based on cell reactions, animal testing and studying SMOKERS does not play out in the real world. If it did, the snus users in the study I linked would have shown a higher incidence of periodontal disease and they don't.

 

[kristin]

Nicotine is not just ANYTHING, it's a poison..... I am done arguing with people who shoot from the hip .....

Who is shooting from the hip, now? Caffeine is a poison. Capsaicin is a poison. Alcohol is a poison. Yet we consider those things to be relatively safe.

The dose makes the poison and we consume nicotine is such low doses that it is no more toxic than the coffee, wine and hot peppers we consume.

 

[Exchaner]

It's a big stretch to compare nicotine with caffeine.....

 

[RobinBanks]

Nicotine is not just ANYTHING, it's a poison..... I am done arguing with people who shoot from the hip .....

I didn't realize this was an argument, I thought it was conversation. A poison is a substance that causes injury, illness, or death. By that standard, almost anything can be a poison and tomatoes are poisonous. Sugar is a poison and water can be poisonous too. I don't think I'm the hip shootin' culprit