What could possibly be shorting after firing?

[IntelligentDesigner]

Having a problem with my AGA T+

The specs:

LavaTube V2, AGA T+ rba, 30 AWG Kanthal, Steel Mesh Wick (dunno the gauge or whatever), 7/64" hole with 5 wraps

The short version:

Everything tests fine until I fire the coil for the first time. Then I get an error code 82 (short). Resistance tests fine with and without the wick. Fires fine without the wick. No go once the wick is installed.

More detail:

I build a coil per the instructions. I put it on my device and make sure the voltage is no higher than 3.3 V, usually 3.2 V. I test the resistance using the mod - 1.8 ohms. Perfect! I do my first test fire at 3.2 V without the wick. Perfect even, orange glow. Yay! I CAREFULLY insert the wick, gently twisting and making sure not to distort the coil. Test resistance again. I get good readings in the 1.5 - 2 ohm range. I fire it and damn, it fails and shuts down my LavaTube.

Screen flashes or it gives me an 82 error code, which I've deduced means a short. I poke and prod the coil a bit and get the resistance back within tolerable range, test it, get good readings, fire it again and guess what happens...another $&^(@*&$^(&@^%)@(%$^) 82! Poke and prod, get my ohms back, fire it, fail. I could go on all night repeating these steps, but I think you get my drift.

Great without the wick, but as soon as I put the wick in there, it fails. Unfortunately the AGA requires the wick. I have at least gotten to the point where the 82 consistently comes up instead of the flashy screen. The wire touches nothing but the positive post to the coil around the wick to the negative screw. The wick touches the coil, the top cap, and slightly brushes the center post (but that's supposed to be insulated anyway, right?).

My first coils always had a hot spot up at the top, which would glow for about a second then fizzle out and give me an error. But I followed a different video this time and worked past that and got the perfect coil now, but the wick is doing something wrong.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

Oh...and just to mention, I've tried everywhere from 4 to 8 wraps all with the same results.

 

[FogHawg]

Sounds like your wick is shorting inside the tank? I'm pretty sure that it shouldn't touch anything in there.

 

[vanillagurilla]

Sounds like your wick is shorting inside the tank? I'm pretty sure that it shouldn't touch anything in there.

Shouldn't matter, both wick hole and tank are grounded. I use unoxidized wicks touching both and no shorts on the tesla even though I don't use it on there. If the wick is touching the top post then that might be a problem.

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

Shouldn't matter, both wick hole and tank are grounded. I use unoxidized wicks touching both and no shorts on the tesla even though I don't use it on there. If the wick is touching the top post then that might be a problem.

Nope. Only link between the wick and top post is the little bit of coil.

 

[vanillagurilla]

Is the wick oxidized? Do you have another device you can test it on? Even an ego batt will work.

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

Ayep. It's oxidized. Think running it through another oxidation cycle might possibly help?

I just checked it with my Inferno battery and the button, albeit a simple LED, stayed glowing as if it were working but the coil didn't heat at all. I could keep my fingers on it the whole time.

That's of course 3.7 V. With the wick out, my LavaTube will give a great glow at only 3 V.

I tried on the Inferno batt with and without the wick. No action from the coil in either case.

 

[pdib]

Are you familiar enough with this process to know about "pulsing out your shorts to the ss mesh"? Your device might be reacting each time you have one of these mini shorts. On a mechanical, one is just powering through these shorts with little pulses. I don't know, just throwing out there, cause I can't determine your experience level and I've never pulsed out a wikicoil on my vamo.

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

You lost me at "Are". Nah, just kidding. I made it to "pulsing" but then became a bit dumbfounded.

If by that process you mean short fires, gradually increasing length and voltage, I can do that. I'll give it a shot; or if the process is something else, please elaborate and I'll try tomorrow. But unfortunately, I have to hit the sack for the evening. It's past my bedtime and work comes too early in the morning.

At least I have a ViVi to get me through the first parts of tomorrow.

Thanks a billion for the help, folks. I'm still open to more input until I get this thing figured out and this AGA working on more than luck. Will continue tomorrow same bat time, same bat channel.

G'night.

 

[pdib]

If by that process you mean short fires, gradually increasing length and voltage, I can do that. I'll give it a shot; or if the process is something else, please elaborate and I'll try tomorrow. But unfortunately, I have to hit the sack for the evening. It's past my bedtime and work comes too early in the morning.



G'night.

yeah, that's what I meant. I was also wondering if your device was shutting down before the "short fire" (pulse) had its effect. Nighty night. sweet dreams

 

[jasl90]

The wick touches the coil, the top cap, and slightly brushes the center post (but that's supposed to be insulated anyway, right?).

Is the top cap touching the center post or the wick???
If the top cap makes any contact with the center post you're creating a dead short. The center post is positive and the top cap is ground (negative). They should never touch.

Are you able to test fire without the top cap?

 

[jasl90]

Is the top cap touching the center post or the wick???
If the top cap makes any contact with the center post you're creating a dead short. The center post is positive and the top cap is ground (negative). They should never touch.

Are you able to test fire without the top cap?

Duh... Just re-read your original post... If your wick is touching both your cap and positive post it can (and probably will) create a short depending on how well the wick is oxidized. Ideally you don't want it touching either.

 

[vanillagurilla]

A hard short is kind of hard to do imo, I've only had it happen once and then it was gone. Sometimes the coil will short to the wick causing a low ohm situation but it should still fire it for a second before that happens. 1 more reason why I love mechanicals.

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

yeah, that's what I meant. I was also wondering if your device was shutting down before the "short fire" (pulse) had its effect. Nighty night. sweet dreams

Tried the pulsing thing. First fire was @ 3.3 V with just a quick push of the button. Quick sizzle happened. Increased voltage to 3.5 and when I went to fire, I got a low ohm reading. The coil read @ 1.0 ohms, down from 1.5 right before the first fire. So, somehow firing the atomizer is rapidly reducing my resistance. I guess holding it down for more than a split second reduces it all the way down to reading as a short.

It usually takes just a moment (like 0.5 - 1 second) before the error code displays on the screen. So, in less than 1 second, it drops down from ideal resistance of 1.5 - 1.8 ohms to a short, but will fire for that split second.

Is the top cap touching the center post or the wick???
If the top cap makes any contact with the center post you're creating a dead short. The center post is positive and the top cap is ground (negative). They should never touch.

Are you able to test fire without the top cap?

This is all done without the top cap in place.

Duh... Just re-read your original post... If your wick is touching both your cap and positive post it can (and probably will) create a short depending on how well the wick is oxidized. Ideally you don't want it touching either.

Impossible if there's no top cap. Even with the top cap, the wick and coil are all well away from the cap walls. The only thing touching from the wick to the positive post is the top part of the coil.

A hard short is kind of hard to do imo, I've only had it happen once and then it was gone. Sometimes the coil will short to the wick causing a low ohm situation but it should still fire it for a second before that happens. 1 more reason why I love mechanicals.

Maybe that's what's happening. Any idea what can be done about it? I'm pretty sure my wick is well oxidized. If not, can I repeat the oxidation with the same wick? Or should I roll another? The wick rolling is the hardest part of the whole rebuild and I'd like to avoid having to do it if possible. I know the wrap is a textbook example of a good wrap. It glows like a light bulb, ok a dim lightbulb, when I fire it without the wick.

 

[pdib]

I'm still thinking its what I was thinking. When the coil shorts into the mesh, it needs to do it long enough, or enough times to create oxidization and reroute itself. Maybe not, what do I know? Get 2 pieces of insulated wire, tape them to your batt. and "benchtop" pulse it. If you explode, don't come complaining to me.

 

[albcig]

perhaps your wick is shorting by making contact with the hole

 

[tenshi]

try this... take your wick out, drip some ejuice (or vg or pg) on it, and light it on fire, let it burn out for three times. When you insert your wick back in, make sure that the wick isn't touching the center post, that the coil is not too tight (just snug), do 1-2 sec pulses at 2.9V to check for hot spots. Hope this helps.

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

Alrighty. Scratch that. Reoxidized the wick. This time I put it in the fire and into the water about 5 times. Then I did the e juice thing tenshi said 3 times. Tested the coil without the wick. Inserted the wick. Tested again. 1.5 ohms. Test burn....

drumroll please......dadadadadadadadadadadadadada

Good glow!!!!!!!!

The bottom didn't quite make it to glowing before the 10 second cutoff kicked in, but the top 4 wraps sure did. I'll recoil with less wraps next time. Inserted juice and am now vaping my AGA with a consistent 1.5 or 1.6 ohm rating!

I still have a teensy weensy, but negligible hot spot right where the first wrap of the coil meets the seam on the outer layer of wick.

I was still wondering about how the short was being created by the firing, but I think pdib's theory is close enough.

So thank you all very kindly for your help.

Now, I don't suppose while we're here you guys could be so kind as to offer up any tips to make a smoother outer seam to avoid that hot spot, could ya?

 

[pdib]

you folding seem? pinch and slide between fingernails? BTW, yes, you're right. you did confirm my theory. Damn, I wish you would have done the benchtop-powerthrough pulsing! If you had a mechanical . . . . . . . . (spend $, spend $, spend$)

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

No, I thought the seam would be smoother and flatter and create a smoother connection if I didn't fold it. Should I?

I didn't want to explode. My sister might be a bit mad if she came home and had to clean a huge, bloody mess.

A mechanical is definitely on my want list, as are a thousand+ other parts I can't afford with my minimum wage, part-time paycheck. My next bigger investment is going to have to be a DIY juice kit though. Hopefully that will save me enough, combined with hopefully soon finding a job that actually uses my degree and pays as such, that I will soon be able to start collecting mods like a madman.