What do you think about the quality,consistancy,and design of vaping products?

[retird]

As it seems to be almost common-place in our vaping experience, most of us have paid for a product that was either poorly constructed, poorly designed, inconsistant in quality control, misrepresented, or is marketed by means of deceptive advertisement. Vendors are really at the mercy of the suppliers that they choose to use. In other words, the vendor has little control over the consistancy of quality of the products they buy from suppliers. Thus the end user, we the customers, continue to receive products that are not consistant in quality or products that, by design, do not perform as advertised. We see inconsistant e-liquid, of which most do not even list the ingredients. In most cases, we do not even know in what type of setting the e-liquid is produces.

I could write a book, but I think you get my drift....something needs to change....When a customer orders, as an example, 100% Dekang USA Mix - 24 mg - 50ml juice, he/she should not even have to wonder about the consistancy, quality, or whether it is genuine or not. When a customer orders a CE1,CE2,CE3,CE4, or G4 cartomizer, they should be a quality product, not leak, and should not be inconsistant in operation. When a customer orders a 3.0 ohm atomizer, it should be 3.0 ohm, not 2.8 or 3.2 ohm.

What I am saying here is that vendors should be demanding quality control, quality assurance, verification of product origin (Dekang juice is Dekang), and product labeling with ingredients (e-liquid). I believe that if the vendors do not take measures to address the above issues, someone will (feds). But as a consumer, I feel I deserve no less than quality, consistant, well designed products, and am not willing to accept the standard comments of "taste is subjective", or "we have no control over the quality control of a cartomizer or atty", or "my supplier says the e-liquid is Genuine Dekang".

I believe that a vendor(any vendor) has a responsiblity to the at-large consumer, as do the suppliers and manufactures, so how long will we stand by and not hold the suppliers and manufactures more accountable? Or do we just continue to buy a product and if we get "a good one", thats great, but if we get a "bad one' we just write if off?

Just my 2- cents here......

What are your thoughts.....

 

[davelog]

While I totally understand your point of view, keep in mind that the FDA has ruled that they will regulate e-cigs as tobacco products, and we're currently living in a sort of legal purgatory until the FDA puts together the specific regulations for our PV's. Typically, they take a couple years to get it together.

What I'm getting at is in a couple of years, we'll be nostalgically looking back on this era of unregulated vaping and complaining about how much better things were back before regulation.

Grass is always greener, man.

 

[sisters3]

You have some very good points; however, do we want to be limited in what is offered? Redesign and upgrades are a very necessary part of all young inventions. I want them to keep trying... it will help in my never ending search for the PERFECT Vape. I search out suppliers with guarantees and read the forums for the best suppliers. I research and research... trying to keep up with the new items. (I am so grateful for the ECF forum!) Forum of the Free

 

[mistinthewoods]

As it seems to be almost common-place in our vaping experience, most of us have paid for a product that was either poorly constructed, poorly designed, inconsistant in quality control, misrepresented, or is marketed by means of deceptive advertisement. Vendors are really at the mercy of the suppliers that they choose to use. In other words, the vendor has little control over the consistancy of quality of the products they buy from suppliers. Thus the end user, we the customers, continue to receive products that are not consistant in quality or products that, by design, do not perform as advertised. We see inconsistant e-liquid, of which most do not even list the ingredients. In most cases, we do not even know in what type of setting the e-liquid is produces.

I could write a book, but I think you get my drift....something needs to change....When a customer orders, as an example, 100% Dekang USA Mix - 24 mg - 50ml juice, he/she should not even have to wonder about the consistancy, quality, or whether it is genuine or not. When a customer orders a CE1,CE2,CE3,CE4, or G4 cartomizer, they should be a quality product, not leak, and should not be inconsistant in operation. When a customer orders a 3.0 ohm atomizer, it should be 3.0 ohm, not 2.8 or 3.2 ohm.

What I am saying here is that vendors should be demanding quality control, quality assurance, verification of product origin (Dekang juice is Dekang), and product labeling with ingredients (e-liquid). I believe that if the vendors do not take measures to address the above issues, someone will (feds). But as a consumer, I feel I deserve no less than quality, consistant, well designed products, and am not willing to accept the standard comments of "taste is subjective", or "we have no control over the quality control of a cartomizer or atty", or "my supplier says the e-liquid is Genuine Dekang".

I believe that a vendor(any vendor) has a responsiblity to the at-large consumer, as do the suppliers and manufactures, so how long will we stand by and not hold the suppliers and manufactures more accountable? Or do we just continue to buy a product and if we get "a good one", thats great, but if we get a "bad one' we just write if off?

Just my 2- cents here......

What are your thoughts.....

Could you type that in Mandarin please? It would make it easier for those who really need to hear this.

 

[ThreePutt]

Well, Dave, I certainly hope I can fully lick the analogs and get to 0% nic by the time the FDA finally regulates the vaping industry. But I'm sure those crafty lawyers will somehow designate 0% juice as a tobacco product, and regulate it anyway.

In regards to the consistency in quality (from a hardware perspective), I guess we can pull out the ol' whipping boy, China. I can pull up alibaba.com and see 152 Chinese e-cig distributors that offer my PV, the eGo-T. And these distributors are dispersed throughout China. But knowing that they copy everything and slap the same label on it, I can see where different manufacturers would vary in their production process, and thus, deliver differing qualities. But it says eGo-T on the label and the box. I wonder where the "real" eGo's come from? Dunno.

I didn't mean to rant on about China. But there's certainly not any American manufacturing going on, unless we're talking about juice.

There are juices from China, but in my experience, and looking at many of the vendors of this site, the juices are made in the US, and not by a corporation. They're home-grown. Guys like you and me that create some tasty juice, and figure "why shouldn't I throw up a website and sell it?" And therein lies a major consistency problem. You and I can take the recipe for RY4, but use material (juice, nic, flavor, plastic bottles) from different sources, and can almost guarantee that our RY4 won't taste the same. It's like the home brewery of juice. I bought 30ml RY4 in two different strengths from the same brick-and-mortar vendor who makes his own. They taste different.

I would assume that with regulation of the PVs, you'll see a lot of regulation over production controls of the juice. Pretty soon, those corporations that lobbied for the regulation will have a juice factory in place. It may even be Big Tobacco? Who knows.

 

[swedishfish]

It doesn't help that there are a lot of glowing reviews for products all over the board and utube for something that's been out for two days. Two weeks later you realize it's a big fail.

I've fallen for a couple of the newest, best things on the market because of it.

Juice, I'm not concerned and I've been pretty happy with the quality of the juice I've purchased. If I wasn't there's the very simple option to make your own.

 

[davelog]

The regulation era will be interesting. If it gets too oppressive, I imagine you'll see people doing their own tobacco extractions (it's not that hard, it's just hard to do with consistency) for their homebrew juices.

 

[swedishfish]

Yea, be very careful what you wish for.

 

[jj2]

This has been addressed several times and I think some US vendors have taken some steps.

I do tend to worry about what is in the liquid I buy but not so much that I don't try some. I will admit that I DIY most liquid.
As for the hardware, it has improved. Back when I started it was vain of my existence which is why I mainly do DIY mods. Even then, I run into problems but they are fixable so I don't have to play the game you're talking about.

 

[bjannr]

I am happy with the way things are now. Has anyone bought shoes, or a piece of clothing that did not hold up? You take it back, right? Well all production companies have a Quality Control. When humans make items, there will be things that are missed. I would rather have this industry continue as is, rather than have a whole lot of controls placed on us.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

I think there are at least three separate issues that may be confused together.

You buy a good system or accessory and you expect it to work as well as the last one you bought. That's manufacturing quality control. And it's often lacking. No guarantees that the new atty you just bought will work as well as the last one or even fire at all. Especially annoying if you've been waiting for it for a while and you're depending on it to work.

You buy what you think is a good system and you discover it's actually a cheap knock-off.

You buy a new system and you discover that it comes with all sorts of problems. I.e. leaking etc. No one appears to have done any comprehensive testing on the new design.

If you want quality American-made merchandise, there's still juice, mods and MAP tanks.

 

[six]

As it seems to be almost common-place in our vaping experience, most of us have paid for a product that was either poorly constructed, poorly designed, inconsistant in quality control, misrepresented, or is marketed by means of deceptive advertisement.

The good news is that you aren't the first person to notice that. Others who noticed have gone to great lengths to make a change. So, now there's not much that can't be DIY'd. Juice, attys, mods... And there are tutorials and fairly clear instructions to be found on how to make just about anything, so it isn't so daunting for anyone to DIY.

 

[APD99]

While I agree with you about the need for quality control I think that you're also forgetting that we are little more than a "home-brew" with class. By that I mean that e-cigarettes, while controversial, are still considered from a financial standpoint as small change. The registered sales from Phillip Morris which is one corporation were $17.4 Billion in 2010, and, while I don't have ready figures on all our e-cig companies, there are 64,244 registered ECF members and the average expenditures on non-essentials per person in 2010 was $210 per month, which is only $161.9 Million per year spread across ALL the e-cig companies. We have to face the fact that we are a specialty market and are likely to remain so for a good long while regardless of the FDA, and that the more stringent quality checks will start to appear as major corporations take control of or open their own factories to make e-cig components. Personally I can't wait to buy an atty or carto from GE or Sylvania.

 

[Cronus6]

If you want quality American-made merchandise, there's still juice, mods and MAP tanks.

The electronic components in mods and the batteries likely still come from China.... pfft, it's likely that even the plastic boxes mods are sometimes built in are coming from China too.

Check this out if you haven't seen it already : http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-reviews/201123-beware-fake-mod-batterys.html

 

[Pamdane]

Knowing that regulation WILL come, I am stock piling the necessities that are going to be toughest to get later(cartos, attys, Batteries, cones etc) because once regulated,i doubt a consistent supply will be available at first. I suspect we will then say, "gee, wish I had XYZ, even it it did leak....". All manufacturers have QC issues. Its a fact of life. If the manufacturer allows a 5% fail, then 1 out of every 20 items produced would not work. Keep actual track of what you your using vs how many fail. You might find its within the accepted norm. Thats not to same a run might be re-called for inferiority. It happens all the time.

The chinese are know for having no copyright boundaries. Thats what knock off are about. With government about to step in, it makes no sense for an e-cig to start up in a copy right respecting country. So we have to be informed consumers and know where to shop. This form serves the purpose of reporting and feedback. Sometimes knock offs work(Riva vs eGo), sometimes they dont. Right now we have to accept what we CANT change. I suspect that after we get a clear government set of rules, we will then see Q/C improve DRASTICALLY. Companies can start up or move in, knowing they wont be shut down soon.

As for e-liquids, that really is subjective. And pretty much, the expensive american made juices are consistent, but in true American fashion, we would rather pay less and complain about what we dont get.
the only way to hold a manufacturer accountable is to not buy their product. When sales drop they then have to evaluate why, and either improve or go out of business.

Just my $.02

 

[swedishfish]

the only way to hold a manufacturer accountable is to not buy their product. When sales drop they then have to evaluate why, and either improve or go out of business.

Unfortunately, most of us don't go to a store. Most of us find out about ecigs by google and about products by the video reviews that are out there. You can still watch the 'glowing' reviews of some of these crap products long after the person doing/paid to do the review doesn't even use the product anymore.

 

[ThreePutt]

Note to self: Research and figure out how to get the manufacturers to send free models and PAY me to vape and do ratings.

 

[six]

You can still watch the 'glowing' reviews of some of these crap products long after the person doing/paid to do the review doesn't even use the product anymore.

That can sort of go hand in hand with QC and consistency issues. As an example: After pretty close to 6 months with it now, I still haven't had any serious trouble with my eGo-t. It isn't getting used nearly as much as it used to, but it continues to function quite well.

Many people had trouble with theirs, but I didn't. If I were a reviewer, my review would have been a positive one and my recommendation would have been to buy it. -- I don't know how many posts I've read with people having problems. Mine never had any problems. I have to think that's got something to do with QC and lax manufacturing standards.

 

[swedishfish]

That can sort of go hand in hand with QC and consistency issues. As an example: After pretty close to 6 months with it now, I still haven't had any serious trouble with my eGo-t. It isn't getting used nearly as much as it used to, but it continues to function quite well.

Many people had trouble with theirs, but I didn't. If I were a reviewer, my review would have been a positive one and my recommendation would have been to buy it. -- I don't know how many posts I've read with people having problems. Mine never had any problems. I have to think that's got something to do with QC and lax manufacturing standards.

The tank reviews are still going strong and I'd venture to say 70% (pulled this out of my a**, but a lot!) of people have issues with them. Then there's that carto, forget what it's called that's on it's 5th revision.

 

[davelog]

Not me, I'm happy as a pig in mud with mine. 2 months and the only problem I had was resolved with the advent of soft gaskets for the tanks.