We Need our own E-cig Association !

[John Phoenix]

Many people buy e-cigs sold over the counter, some like them but many are disappointed for various reasons. These people simply do not know where to turn for help. They do not realize that the e-cig they purchased is not representative of what we consider normal Quality e-cigs.

We Need an E-cig Association for this purpose.

It just depends on the person but for lots of people they see this cheap e-cig, try it and if they are disappointed they don't know where to turn. That's why we Need an E-cig Association to "Approve" these products.. like a consumer reports outfit.. Each and every e-cig sold (OTC in stores) Must have paperwork with info and a link back to this E-cig Association. It's like the Good House Keeping Stamp of Approval or the BBB stamp of approval. There they can get info on the purchased product as well as learn the differences of these store bought e-cigs compared to better quality e-cigs - they can KNOW that the store bought e-cig is not considered a top of the line e-cig and may not deliver the quality and experience the new vaper should expect.

This Association should be made up of the vendors, manufacturers and users of e-cigs. All e-cig vendors should agree to join. This will help with quality control. If bad products are found, the E-cig Association can refuse to endorse the product.

All members can help make the decision (vendors, manufacturers and users) if the Association will endorse a certain product or not. This makes a level playing field and cuts out political corruption. ECF and CASAA can be partners with this ecig association because they provide access to unbiased e-cig information.

This idea is nothing new, I have heard others said it has been tried but other than the now known defunct e-cig association (that was only for the manufacturers) I haven't seen anything on the issue. There is a company called Instead posing an an ECA ( Electronic Cigarette Association) I suspect the real ECA's website was not renewed and the Instead company bought the domain? If so, this is downright sneaky dishonest and underhanded.

This E-cig Association should be made to help self regulate the E-cig industry for issues like quality control, safety and fair pricing. Because all members of the Association have a say in the workings of the association there should be no room for private, corporate or government corruption. There cannot be a single board of directors that are not answerable to We The People who can be corrupted or swayed with bribes or bullying.

These are my thoughts on the need for such an entity and how it can be run. If we fail to self regulate now, others will seek to impose regulation that we may not agree with.

This is in the General forum because it is an issue all vapers should be considerate of in my opinion.

What do you think?

 

[xanas]

There are several associations/clubs/advocacy groups out there. Check out CASAA (CASAA | The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association) that's just one of them.

And really, most ecig users are not aficionados like most members of the forums. You could say we are the 1% of the vaping world.

 

[John Phoenix]

I know about those other groups but they are not a substitute for the type of association I am proposing - They don't do the same job of my hypothetical association.

There is not one Association that everyone respects and works with overall to combat these issues I listed. Sure there is the CASAA and Tobacco Vapor Electronic Cigarette Association and The Truth About Ecigs but they all have different functions than the one we really need IMO. They serve as information clearing houses, not an association to self regulate the industry.

 

[Twisty]

Why create another bureaucracy? To think any Association will be free of politics and corruption is naive.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Your idea has been proposed many times .. why not start one yourself .. ??

 

[John Phoenix]

Why create another bureaucracy? To think any Association will be free of politics and corruption is naive.

It doesn't have to be so, not if all members can contribute equally to the decision making. A democracy is exactly what it should not be, Democracy by definition equals mob rule, not a true reflection of the will of the majority. A Democracy is in fact such a bad system, the forefathers of the USA discounted it for their system and set up a Republic instead, some even calling a democracy, Evil.

In the UK they do have a self regulating body for their e-cig industry and it works well. It helps to keep tougher government regulation out of the process as long as members all work together for quality and safety of the product.

A bureaucracy is a system of governance where the most important decisions are made by a ruling body. This will not be a bureaucracy.

Too many people do not know the differences between a democracy and a republic and incorrectly think the USA is based on a democracy.

We in the USA are too little familiar with other forms of government so we tend to think all associations have to play by the same rules. Not so. This would be more a Republic (a form of government where the power is by the people with elected representatives) but the elected representatives is where corruption can sneak in so we do away with them and let every vote stand on it's own merit. No leaders but members. All decisions to the governing rule sets to be created and voted on by all members, to how the association should be run. The true majority of the members alone will decide these things.

I or someone else could suggest rules of fairness, such as vendors or manufacturers do not have more voting power than any individual member and in fact all voting must be done solely as individual members. This seems fair to me yet the members could vote on this too. I would want the power in all of the members hands equally. These are just my suggestions of what I think is most fair for everyone, others may disagree.

 

[spicyed]

All of the businesses I know that claim and show off that they are BBB approved have done so just to improve their bad images from bad service/products. Maybe not on topic but I've seen a few poor quality e cig sites with the BBB banner.

 

[John Phoenix]

Your idea has been proposed many times .. why not start one yourself .. ??

I don't know if I'm smart enough to organize such a large undertaking, perhaps I could but I don't want this to be about what I think should be done.. it's just something I think is needed and could help. My question is as I have heard others say too, this has been proposed before.. how come no one else has done it? I think a big problem is getting all of the players involved and willing to cooperate. I'm not a vendor or manufacturer.. and though I do hear them say they want better self regulation they have not shown willingness to form such an association for the most part.. not something as equal as I propose. It's like Instead grabbing up the Electronic Cigarette Association title.. they want controlling interest. Perhaps not all but enough to spoil the bunch. It would be a hard uphill battle if not done exactly right.

 

[oldsoldier]

This is not the OUTSIDE so don't start bringing political rhetoric into the topic. If you do I'll close this down so fast that it will make your head spin.

 

[tj99959]

Talk to Spikey, she can tell you all about the can of worms that you are suggesting.

BTW, there were over 300 of us at Las Vegas Vapefest, where were you?

What you are suggesting already exists (NVC), and it has caused more hard feelings than anything else.

 

[John Phoenix]

All of the businesses I know that claim and show off that they are BBB approved have done so just to improve their bad images from bad service/products. Maybe not on topic but I've seen a few poor quality e cig sites with the BBB banner.

Yeah that is on topic and illustrates the need for such an Association. This association should be respected enough to say this or that product is not up to par and should be used with digression as the Association does not endose said product. it would become a known thing - Look for the Association symbol on your e-cig website and you will know the products has been tested and approved for quality, saftey and fair pricing - by The People.

 

[John Phoenix]

This is not the OUTSIDE so don't start bringing political rhetoric into the topic. If you do I'll close this down so fast that it will make your head spin.

Sorry, I understand your point, and I think you know that was not my intention.. just suggesting a way this thing could be run to best serve the people, in my opinion. I do see where you are coming from and your warning is noted with agreeable compliance.

 

[John Phoenix]

Talk to Spikey, she can tell you all about the can of worms that you are suggesting.

BTW, there were over 300 of us at Las Vegas Vapefest, where were you?

What you are suggesting already exists (NVC), and it has caused more hard feelings than anything else.

Where am I? I could not afford to go.. though I would have liked to. I would like to hear of the info Spikey has and more of the NVC. Perhaps problems could be worked out if approached in a different light. I'm one of these who believes there is always a solution to a problem.

 

[wdave]

Many people buy e-cigs sold over the counter, some like them but many are disappointed for various reasons. These people simply do not know where to turn for help. They do not realize that the e-cig they purchased is not representative of what we consider normal Quality e-cigs.

We Need an E-cig Association for this purpose.

It just depends on the person but for lots of people they see this cheap e-cig, try it and if they are disappointed they don't know where to turn. That's why we Need an E-cig Association to "Approve" these products.. like a consumer reports outfit.. Each and every e-cig sold (OTC in stores) Must have paperwork with info and a link back to this E-cig Association. It's like the Good House Keeping Stamp of Approval or the BBB stamp of approval. There they can get info on the purchased product as well as learn the differences of these store bought e-cigs compared to better quality e-cigs - they can KNOW that the store bought e-cig is not considered a top of the line e-cig and may not deliver the quality and experience the new vaper should expect.

This Association should be made up of the vendors, manufacturers and users of e-cigs. All e-cig vendors should agree to join. This will help with quality control. If bad products are found, the E-cig Association can refuse to endorse the product.

All members can help make the decision (vendors, manufacturers and users) if the Association will endorse a certain product or not. This makes a level playing field and cuts out political corruption. ECF and CASAA can be partners with this Ecig association because they provide access to unbiased e-cig information.

This idea is nothing new, I have heard others said it has been tried but other than the now known defunct e-cig association (that was only for the manufacturers) I haven't seen anything on the issue. There is a company called Instead posing an an ECA ( Electronic Cigarette Association) I suspect the real ECA's website was not renewed and the Instead company bought the domain? If so, this is downright sneaky dishonest and underhanded.

This E-cig Association should be made to help self regulate the E-cig industry for issues like quality control, safety and fair pricing. Because all members of the Association have a say in the workings of the association there should be no room for private, corporate or government corruption. There cannot be a single board of directors that are not answerable to We The People who can be corrupted or swayed with bribes or bullying.

These are my thoughts on the need for such an entity and how it can be run. If we fail to self regulate now, others will seek to impose regulation that we may not agree with.

This is in the General forum because it is an issue all vapers should be considerate of in my opinion.

What do you think?

I agree and I think you should be the President. This will launch your career into politics and you will have a lot of ecig groupies.

 

[John Phoenix]

I agree and I think you should be the President. This will launch your career into politics and you will have a lot of ecig groupies.

I would not want or take the job. That is exactly how this association should not be run IMO. Read the rest of the posts. There is so much corruption in industry today as well as politics/ governing bodies I am trying to suggest a possible method of running such an association as to keep corruption and unfairness out. Others may have better ideas. The point is I think we could benefit from such as association, but I would hate for it to be designed with the flaws that make other associations corruptible. That would not be fair to anyone.

 

[John Phoenix]

Here ya go. Folks can vote on this depending if they are an E-cig User, a Vendor or a Manufacturer.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-e-cig-assoc-help-self-regulate-industry.html

You can pick the faction you represent and vote in favor of or opposed.

 

[StotheK]

As many have mentioned, there have been some grass roots movements and there are groups out there like CASAA and the Vaper's Network. I understand there were some attempts on the seller level to organize during the dark days of the FDA's seizures headed up by NJoy, but the group fell apart shortly after it was formed. There's also the TVECA which has its own issues as well. Right now the industry is a little bit wild west, and is a lot like herding cats when it comes to organizing.

 

[Morandir835]

The problem is what can you really trust with any organization no matter who is behind it John Pheonix sir. You can measure customer service to a degree, but as always the ones who will be the most vocal are those unhappy. Could be one unhappy customer goes on a tirade and that's all anyone hears. Same goes for product quality. An association based on the people will still be biased based on what they look for in an ecig. You have a whole group of people who put batt life above all else, others put size, others voltage output, list goes on. There truly are no real unbiased reviews, but what the reviewer likes will trump the facts about an item, so if they don't fit the needs of the reviewer, they're going to get a bad review. Whenever I compare items do my best to include the fact this is what I prefer so it may not be the same case for someone else. You're still going to end up with a mob mentality in the organization because if only 2% if the people in it approve of a company/device they'll still be overruled by the rest....

 

[oldsoldier]

The problem is what can you really trust with any organization no matter who is behind it John Pheonix sir. You can measure customer service to a degree, but as always the ones who will be the most vocal are those unhappy. Could be one unhappy customer goes on a tirade and that's all anyone hears. Same goes for product quality. An association based on the people will still be biased based on what they look for in an ecig. You have a whole group of people who put batt life above all else, others put size, others voltage output, list goes on. There truly are no real unbiased reviews, but what the reviewer likes will trump the facts about an item, so if they don't fit the needs of the reviewer, they're going to get a bad review. Whenever I compare items do my best to include the fact this is what I prefer so it may not be the same case for someone else. You're still going to end up with a mob mentality in the organization because if only 2% if the people in it approve of a company/device they'll still be overruled by the rest....

I think a more useful association would be an independent testing agency. Kind of like being ISO approved or UL approved. base approval on adherence to specifications and documented Quality Assurance procedures that are randomly tested in an unannounced fashion. I think that is the big lesson to be learned from the entire Box Elder Debacle. That is just my opinion, ymmv.

 

[Morandir835]

Agree completely Oldsoilder sir. Closest anyone will get to an unbiased view.