What does "in-house extract" and "house extract" tobacco juice actually mean?
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It just means that the tobacco extracts are made by them, as opposed to something they bought from a manufacturer to resell.
That doesn't tell me what I want to know. I want to know if I vape an "in-house extract" tobacco, if it will be as if I quit smoking but took up dipping, to use a poor analogy, trading one risk for another. I started vaping to get away from tobacco. I want my tobacco flavor not to actually come with all the dangerous stuff I took up vaping to get away from, and that vague wording doesn't leave me an informed consumer, aware of the risks before I buy.
Ohhhhh I see. No worries. Tobacco extracts only get the flavor of natural tobacco. If it's pure undiluted tobacco extract, it will be thick, but there's nothing floating in it. Almost always though, it's diluted in alcohol or PG, and it has a brown color to it.
Extracted means it's made from real tobacco leaves, there are different processes for doing that. Non-extracted is just tobacco "flavored", there's not any real tobacco in it. Extracted is much more the "real deal" as far as flavor goes. Your concerns are mostly unwarranted, almost all the "dangerous stuff" you refer to is added by the cigarette manufacturer, tobacco is just a plant. Add 4,000 toxic chemicals to a tomato and you probably wouldn't want to eat it.
In-house simply means they do the extraction themselves vs buying it from someone else who did the extracting.
No it isn't like trading in dipping for smoking. It's no different from the other "natural" flavorings that many suppliers brag about. I personally like natural vs artificial. Just because someone made it in a test tube doesn't make it safer.
In-house simply means they do the extraction themselves vs buying it from someone else who did the extracting.
No it isn't like trading in dipping for smoking. It's no different from the other "natural" flavorings that many suppliers brag about. I personally like natural vs artificial. Just because someone made it in a test tube doesn't make it safer.
I am not reassured by these answers. As a former lab tech, I'm well aware that the lack of particles visible to the eye does not mean that they aren't there.
gthomspon, I just want to be better informed so that I can decide for myself which risks I'm willing to take. After all, this is the reason why I began vaping, to reduce my risk of dying. I don't want to inadvertently raise that risk again. I think these are legitimate questions that need to be asked. At least it is for me. This is something I care about.
I think it isn't safe to make assumptions. Assuming that everything synthetic is safe is as naive is assuming that everything natural is safe. Neither assumption is true and both are easily refuted. Hemlock, deadly nightshade, arsenic, and cyanide are all natural and deadly, for example. Some substances are not safe, and their origin as synthetic or natural is not a reliable indicator of safety or risk.
I am reading a monograph from Smokeless Tobacco or Health: An International Perspective called Chemical Composition of Smokeless Tobacco Products by Klaus T. Brunnemann and Dietrich Hoffman. Table 1 shows which carcinogenic agents are found in natural tobacco (NT). Some of the carcinogenic compounds that develop in tobacco is from air curing or fire curing, not from additives, as this paper also explains. The precusors for the carcinogenic compounds are "integral parts of the tobacco" (page 105). The phrase "natural tobacco" used in this monograph does not refer to cured tobacco, and now I wonder how it is meant when the phrase is used to refer to tobacco juice since so many of the flavoring compounds do not develop until the tobacco is cured, as explained in this monograph, and it's the cured tobacco flavor that is so sought after.
You are correct that certain flavor additives are carcinogenic, which also raises alarm bells for me. I don't wish to skip the tobacco only to get carcinogenic tobacco flavoring additives in my ejuice, if those are being used. How would we know?
After having skimmed through most of the monographs, I am not reassured that natural tobacco is so safe that I have no reason for concern if it's in my ejuice.
gthomspon, I just want to be better informed so that I can decide for myself which risks I'm willing to take. After all, this is the reason why I began vaping, to reduce my risk of dying. I don't want to inadvertently raise that risk again. I think these are legitimate questions that need to be asked. At least it is for me. This is something I care about.
I think it isn't safe to make assumptions. Assuming that everything synthetic is safe is as naive is assuming that everything natural is safe. Neither assumption is true and both are easily refuted. Hemlock, deadly nightshade, arsenic, and cyanide are all natural and deadly, for example. Some substances are not safe, and their origin as synthetic or natural is not a reliable indicator of safety or risk.
I am reading a monograph from Smokeless Tobacco or Health: An International Perspective called Chemical Composition of Smokeless Tobacco Products by Klaus T. Brunnemann and Dietrich Hoffman. Table 1 shows which carcinogenic agents are found in natural tobacco (NT). Some of the carcinogenic compounds that develop in tobacco is from air curing or fire curing, not from additives, as this paper also explains. The precusors for the carcinogenic compounds are "integral parts of the tobacco" (page 105). The phrase "natural tobacco" used in this monograph does not refer to cured tobacco, and now I wonder how it is meant when the phrase is used to refer to tobacco juice since so many of the flavoring compounds do not develop until the tobacco is cured, as explained in this monograph, and it's the cured tobacco flavor that is so sought after.
You are correct that certain flavor additives are carcinogenic, which also raises alarm bells for me. I don't wish to skip the tobacco only to get carcinogenic tobacco flavoring additives in my ejuice, if those are being used. How would we know?
After having skimmed through most of the monographs, I am not reassured that natural tobacco is so safe that I have no reason for concern if it's in my ejuice.
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Judging by the concern in your post, I would say you should also look into avoiding menthol, vanilla, custard, PG, and cinnamon flavors. They are all questionable and relately untested for vaping. In fact most flavors are... The main thing to remember is that vaping is not safe, just a lot safer.
The alternative is vaping unflavored NIC base, which is actually not bad.
The alternative is vaping unflavored NIC base, which is actually not bad.
It seems like you would be best served by avoiding vaping and smoking all together. I appreciate the fact that you are educating yourself on the dangers of vaping but in reality vaping is nothing more than harm reduction. By getting rid of the additives from cigarettes and the combustion you are making a safer choice but not necessarily a safe choice. The safest choice would be to quit inhaling anything other than the air you breathe (which is probably not THAT safe anyway).
In order to remove all danger from the equation you would need to cease inhaling ANY type of smoke, juice, etc. Vaping is simply the best way any of us have found to quit smoking cigarettes. I know it is probably not perfect but it works for me. I am willing to accept the minor risks involved. After all, had I continued smoking I would have certainly developed some form of cancer and probably died from it. I have chosen the LESS dangerous path, not the perfect path.
It is all a choice and education is key. From my research, I am not concerned that my current habit is any more dangerous than my old habit. If anything, I have lessened my chances of contracting and/or dying from cancer. If it turns out I am wrong, what have I really lost? The "smoking cessation" products from BP were no help and continuing to smoke cigarettes was a certain death. At least with vaping I feel that my chances of cancer or death are less. I could have just continued to smoke and slowly kill myslef. If vaping turns out to be just as bad as smoking (which I doubt) then I have really only traded one bad habit for another.
In order to remove all danger from the equation you would need to cease inhaling ANY type of smoke, juice, etc. Vaping is simply the best way any of us have found to quit smoking cigarettes. I know it is probably not perfect but it works for me. I am willing to accept the minor risks involved. After all, had I continued smoking I would have certainly developed some form of cancer and probably died from it. I have chosen the LESS dangerous path, not the perfect path.
It is all a choice and education is key. From my research, I am not concerned that my current habit is any more dangerous than my old habit. If anything, I have lessened my chances of contracting and/or dying from cancer. If it turns out I am wrong, what have I really lost? The "smoking cessation" products from BP were no help and continuing to smoke cigarettes was a certain death. At least with vaping I feel that my chances of cancer or death are less. I could have just continued to smoke and slowly kill myslef. If vaping turns out to be just as bad as smoking (which I doubt) then I have really only traded one bad habit for another.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/324775-greetings-toxicology.html
An interesting read about the potential untested things vaping may expose you to. The thing to remember is that vaping exposes you to significantly lower concentrations of those chemicals than smoking, and of course there's the main point that there's no where near the over 4000 chemicals in cigarettes.
An interesting read about the potential untested things vaping may expose you to. The thing to remember is that vaping exposes you to significantly lower concentrations of those chemicals than smoking, and of course there's the main point that there's no where near the over 4000 chemicals in cigarettes.
I don't kid myself that vaping is completely safe. My body tells me it's far better than smoking though.
Please stay on topic. This thread isn't about whether or not I ought to smoke or vape, or if you feel safe doing it, it's about what does it mean when an ejuice is a house extracted or extracted in-house, and what does that mean regarding which tobacco compounds end up in the juice. I'm not looking for alternatives to vaping. That isn't the point of this thread.
I have been avoiding many flavors because of safety concerns. I would like to buy a tobacco flavor, which is the reason why I started this thread, but I have been afraid to try because of unanswered questions. So I'm asking the questions.
I was hoping that just like with the diacetyl thread, juice makers would respond with answers due to consumer concerns, but I will try contacting juice makers directly.
I have been avoiding many flavors because of safety concerns. I would like to buy a tobacco flavor, which is the reason why I started this thread, but I have been afraid to try because of unanswered questions. So I'm asking the questions.
I was hoping that just like with the diacetyl thread, juice makers would respond with answers due to consumer concerns, but I will try contacting juice makers directly.
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I already answered that question.
Nick at Goodejuice does his own extracting. He's pretty open and friendly and might be a good place to start. Assuming you curb the attitude a llittle.
I asked a direct question and you told me to start smoking again. I don't think I'm the one with the attitude.
I do not want to start smoking again. It's the reason why I vape. When I don't vape, I smoke. These are my lifesavers. Wanting my life savers not to kill me is a pretty obvious concern and I don't appreciate being mocked over asking a pretty basic question regarding juice safety that I think everyone who vapes ought to be thinking about.
The advice to "just quit"? As former smokers, doesn't that rub anyone else the wrong way? I've tried to just quit over and over again since 1991. If I could have just quit, I would have by now.
Those issues are unrelated to my questions about the ingredients in tobacco ejuice. The response to asking what's in it should never be "Don't ask! Just believe it's safe! If you're such a scaredy-cat don't do it then! But no matter what, DON'T ASK." Why not ask? Shouldn't we know the answers?
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Juice makers and vendors are not allowed to post in this forum. You will get no answers from them here.
Extracting tobacco flavor from the leaves is the same process, more or less, as extracting coffee flavor from coffee beans. Steep the dried/cured tobacco leaves in PG, VG, pure grain alcohol, or water and steep for a specific time, then filter for substrates. Vendors who do their own extractions typically do it in a lab environment, such as Vaperite or Ahlusion. There is a subsection of the DIY forum here dedicated to making your own extractions that you may find useful - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/liquid-extraction-tobacco/
Extracting tobacco flavor from the leaves is the same process, more or less, as extracting coffee flavor from coffee beans. Steep the dried/cured tobacco leaves in PG, VG, pure grain alcohol, or water and steep for a specific time, then filter for substrates. Vendors who do their own extractions typically do it in a lab environment, such as Vaperite or Ahlusion. There is a subsection of the DIY forum here dedicated to making your own extractions that you may find useful - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/liquid-extraction-tobacco/
Thank you for the link. I appreciate that.
I already knew these things. I also began mixing my own juices back when I joined ECF in 2009, which is when concerns over butter and vanilla flavorings were being discusses a lot.
I never took to low resistance or high voltage vaping because of concerns over ingredient safety. I stick to low temperature vaping, which is the opposite direction that most ECF members have gone in.
And people are just saying, you KNOW those cigarettes are going to kill you. If you expect someone to be able to say, oh my yes, e cigs are completely safe, that's not going to happen. There's no doubt in my mind they're safer, my body tells me that every day, but I have no way to prove it to you.
Besides, why would you expect the average person here to be able to answer these questions? Go to the horses mouth.
Besides, why would you expect the average person here to be able to answer these questions? Go to the horses mouth.
Oops!
Thank you, Unforeseen for moving it!
That's what I suspected Spaceballsrules. Love your username!
Sigh. Oh well. I suppose I'll stick to non-tobacco juices then.
I didn't know that there was a forum dedicated to that! Thank you for the link!
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