All I'm looking for is a practical and objective discussion about eliquid extraction techniques, eliquid ingredients, and their various risks or flaws or benefits.
I know nothing is totally risk-free and I'm not going to stop vaping.
I have always loved science. I like to know how things work. I'm this way about everything. For example, I can read a shampoo bottle and determine what 90% of the ingredients are and what they do. I can make most of the products I use. It is second nature for me when buying sunscreen to start with looking up research and monographs on active ingredients and information such as their degradation rates end up looking up albedo levels and it's relationship to skin exposure, to the various wavelengths of UVA rays and penetration levels through clouds and skin, and end up on DNA damage and cellular changes caused by UVA. As I said before, I'm a curious person and these subjects are actually interesting to me. What I'm trying to explain is that it is futile to try to convince me to not ask questions or think of these things. It's how my mind works.
It is equally futile to tell me not to vape. Vaping has kept me from smoking ever since I began in 2009. They are my life savers. I love it. I'm not going to stop. Period. End of discussion.
Let me make a comparison. If I go to an auto website and I ask questions about what types of tires are safest in various conditions because I worry about sliding in the rain or snow, the benefits or downsides of types of brakes, and the best types of airbags, I am not looking for reminders that driving will never be 100% safe or looking for advice about "how to take up public transportation" or "biking as an alternative," nor would those suggestions answer my questions or leave me better informed about brakes, air bags, or tires.
I believe that vaping is safer than smoking. Please don't bombard me about whether I should be vaping or not just because I care to ask about what is in my ejuice. It's a basic question that I'm sure some other people also care about. If it's not an issue you care about, then I'm happy for you! This is not the thread for you. It's not your issue or concern. I do care about it because I'm the kind of person who cares about things like what kind of brakes and airbags I have, even though I could still die in a car crash with those things. Reminding me that driving will never be 100% safe only increases my desire to learn more about brakes and tires and airbags, because those are interesting questions to me.
I am a well-educated and intelligent person who wants to look at this issue objectively. Please just let me have that discussion with others who share that concern or who have relevant information without the criticisms for merely asking what is it that we're vaping. This is a board designed for support.
The main point of contention with your concern is the part about "I don't want to buy anything that has had real tobacco soaking in it." NJOY IS NOT doing any "in-house," "house," or out-house extracts for flavor!
That was precisely my point, but I assumed that I made that clear. Let me elaborate so that there is no further misunderstanding. They only use a flavoring, yet it still had nitrosamines in it. This makes me not trust any tobacco flavored ejuice unless it has specifically been tested for nitrosamines because, as I suspected from my personal experience extracting various substances when I was a lab tech, that even just when the "flavoring" has been extracted, it may be contaminated by other tobacco substances, some of which could be dangerous. I thought that I explained this next part, but I'll elaborate further by stating that I concluded that if just the flavorings are contaminated with detectable amounts of tobacco carcinogens in ejuice, then steeped or in-house ejuices are likely to contain much more, but that cannot be known for sure without testing.
The TSNAs that were present was not from any flavoring or anything like that -- it was from the nicotine. If you want to stay away from "anything that has had real tobacco soaking in it,"
That isn't necessary and it's not accurate either, or you must have misunderstood what I meant. I believe that I elaborated to explain, but I'll clarify again here that I'm concerned specifically about toxic tobacco substances, not simply any substance that comes from tobacco.
To satisfy the nit-pickers just waiting to jump on this semantic point (not referring to you Mr.Mann, just heading this tangent off at the pass), I know that nicotine is toxic if enough is taken, as well as oxygen and salt and water, etc (insert eye-roll here). That clearly isn't what I meant either.
I'm well aware that nicotine is extracted from tobacco, but it isn't difficult to find sources for extracted nicotine that does not contain the cancerous substances that concern me because that is regulated. As I showed in my previous post, some eliquids have been tested for the substances of greatest concern and been shown to be free of them. That earns my trust.
Taken from Ahlsuion's website
Summary of changes and updates.
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Services:
Our GCMS (and MSDS) analysis options will be available to the public - if you need an analysis performed and certified, we can do so. Contact us for details. This service is mainly geared towards other vendors."
Also from Ahlusion's site
What's different about your flavors?.
"...Similarly, our tobaccos do not include any artificial tobacco flavor notes (Tabanon/e) as found in some Perfumers Apprentice flavorings. Yet, many are simply used to this and prefer it better. I personally hate (stress) DK-Tab, M-Type and all the rest of them and also refuse to make eliquids for anyone with those - but that's beside the point. This is also a good time to explain the two types of tobaccos we currently offer: our flavored tobaccos and what we like to call aromatic tobaccos. All our tobaccos are based on organic tobacco extracts performed in-house through various methods to achieve the desired flavors. Our flavored tobaccos simply have other natural or organic flavorings, while the aromatic tobaccos tend to resemble various pipe blends, Burleys and so on. Another important point worth mentioning, is that our extracts are tested to be free of TSNA's and other harmful products/compounds generally found in traditional tobacco or cigarettes..."
Oh that is so awesome! Good for Ahlusion! They just got a new customer. That is truely useful information and precisely what I was looking for! Thank you so much!
... it will result in more disease and death than if they had done nothing. The FDA's interference in supposedly free citizens' choices has probably killed more people than Josef Mengele.
I don't feel comfortable making claims regarding what would happen if the FDA became involved. I truly don't know. Since I can imagine a negative outcome that would make vaping more expensive or eliminate it as an option in public or make it difficult to get supplies, I hope that responsible choices by vendors won't make it easier for them to wedge that door open, however, there is also good reason for concern regarding an unregulated market, too.
Greed also kills people, which is the reason why even though I love vaping, I don't give vaping vendors 100% of my trust without evidence that they have earned a measure of my trust. Look at the tobacco industry, who didn't want to stop making money so they suppressed the information proving that tobacco kills, or the milk suppliers in China who killed all those babies, or the pet food suppliers who killed all those dogs and cats. They cared more about making a little more money than they did about being careful about what they put into their products. That's the reason why we need to stay vigilant.
I agree with MaxUT - not meaning to hijack your thread - just angry with how the FDA seems to be about regulating who gets to reap the monetary benefits of a product more then actual safety concerns. FDA = Financial Diversion Admin.
I did bring the subject up!
Money does corrupt. That's the only explanation for why certain pesticides used on tobacco plants that increase the likelihood of cancer haven't been regulated. It's a depressing realization.
