What does "in-house extract" and "house extract" tobacco juice actually mean?

[Mr.Mann]

Okay then, you're right -- don't buy njoy or Smokingeverywhere . They are probably utilizing a tobacco Absolute which is a form of extract but nobody really knows how its made. I provided you with a link to Ahlusion, and you can also have your own GC-MS testing done, or you can not buy any artificial or extracted tobacco. I, for one, will continue buying as I do. I concede your point, but not the point that artificial tobacco is from tobacco.

p.s. The links weren't working before because my Adobe Reader wasn't updated.

 

[imogene]

Yes, they were all from the same vendor, Smoking Everywhere. They have a kiosk at the mall here.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Yes, all from the same vendor, Smoking Everywhere. They have a kiosk at the mall here.

Word to the wise: Don' buy from a mall kiosk.

 

[imogene]

Har-har.

As I said before, I don't currently vape any "tobacco" ejuices, which is why I started this thread, and I wasn't planning on buying any from the mall.

This was my point about tobacco flavoring and steeped juices, which extends to a general mistrust for all untested ejuices that emulate tobacco.

Nitrosamines were found in the tobacco and menthol flavored Njoy cartridges and the tobacco flavored Smoking Everywhere cartridges at very low levels, strengthening the suspicion that I had regarding the possibility that tobacco "flavorings" might be contaminated by other tobacco compounds (FDA, Table 1). The likelihood that natural tobacco extracts produced via infusing real tobacco is going to contain higher levels of N-nitrosamines is very likely, but we cannot know how high without testing. This may be a matter of some concern, and not just for health reasons. If the FDA does start regulating the vaping community, it will be over issues like whether or not there are the same carcinogens in our juices as there are in cigarettes. The FDA already started asking those questions years ago.

 

[imogene]

They are probably utilizing a Tobacco Absolute which is a form of extract but nobody really knows how its made. I provided you with a link to Ahlusion, and you can also have your own GC-MS testing done, or you can not buy any artificial or extracted tobacco. I, for one, will continue buying as I do. I concede your point, but not the point that artificial tobacco is from tobacco.

p.s. The links weren't working before because my Adobe Reader wasn't updated.

I never said that "artificial tobacco is from tobacco." I asserted that it was a possibility that some of the constituents in some ejuices were derived from tobacco and that I was unwilling to assume where tobacco flavoring constiuents origined without evidence. I was expressing doubt, not certainty. Until I encounter evidence, I keep an open mind regarding the logical possibilities.

See?

I considered this, especially since another interest of mine is perfumes. I think most people are aware that many ingredients are not derived directly from the source they're intended to emulate, however some ingredients are. The flavoring company websites I've visited have only used the word "natural" to describe their tobacco flavoring but they do not elaborate to specify that none of the constituents are actually derived from tobacco.

Without evidence that the TSNAs detected came from the nicotine or the flavoring, I am not willing to assume that it came from either one. Regardless, the same concern still stands.

You can also pay for testing! I vote that you do it. Then you can tell me the results. I'm sure Ahlusion would appreciate it.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Har-har.

As I said before, I don't currently vape any "tobacco" ejuices, which is why I started this thread, and I wasn't planning on buying any from the mall.

This was my point about tobacco flavoring and steeped juices, which extends to a general mistrust for all untested ejuices that emulate tobacco.

After I made that post yesterday (the "culprit" one), I realized that those Chinese vendors were probably using TA as an ingredient. So, I guess technically they could be considered to be using an extract, but that is still not the same thing as GeJ, W2V or Ahlusion. If I am not mistaken, TA is made in India (or some other far east country) and no one really knows how it is made. Mom and Pops utilize TA in several of their "tobacco" juices, but they don't conflate their tobacco extracted juices with those (if that makes any sense)?

You can also pay for testing! I vote that you do it. Then you can tell me the results. I'm sure Ahlusion would appreciate it.

Sure. I vote that you give me the money for the test. .

 

[gthompson]

You can also pay for testing! I vote that you do it. Then you can tell me the results.

Since you're the one with all the "doubts", how about you pay for said testing? Then you can see the results for yourself, and you won't have to bother everyone else here with them.

 

[imogene]

After I made that post yesterday (the "culprit" one), I realized that those Chinese vendors were probably using TA as an ingredient. So, I guess technically they could be considered to be using an extract, but that is still not the same thing as GeJ, W2V or Ahlusion. If I am not mistaken, TA is made in India (or some other far east country) and no one really knows how it is made. Mom and Pops utilize TA in several of their "tobacco" juices, but they don't conflate their tobacco extracted juices with those (if that makes any sense)?

I'm not conflating anything. Until the door opens, it's all Schrödinger's cat to me.

Sure. I vote that you give me the money for the test. .

Boo!

In all seriousness, though, more ejuice vendors really ought to be testing for TSNAs.

Since you're the one with all the "doubts", how about you pay for said testing? Then you can see the results for yourself, and you won't have to bother everyone else here with them.

I'm not very well motivated to stop bothering you with my doubts, seeing as how you've been so pleasant to me.

How about you pay me to stop bothering you?

There's another option... You could just stop reading this thread.

I think it's you who is bothering you. After all, you keep coming back to read it!

 

[Mr.Mann]

Imogene, I wasn't saying that you conflate the two, I was just saying that there is a vendor that does not claim the juice that uses TA is part of their extracted line, that's all.

 

[gthompson]

In all walks of my life I've always found there are people who believe their opinions are more important than mine. You are not a new experience for me.

 

[imogene]

Imogene, I wasn't saying that you conflate the two, I was just saying that there is a vendor that does not claim the juice that uses TA is part of their extracted line, that's all.

I'm sorry. I did misread that. I'm watching a TV show. I missed the "they". Then I reread it and I didn't understand what you meant, so I'm glad that you clarified.

 

[Mr.Mann]

 

[Mr.Mann]

I'm sorry. I did misread that. I'm watching a TV show. I missed the "they". Then I reread it and I didn't understand what you meant, so I'm glad that you clarified.

No worries. I appreciate tenacity. I only wish I had my damn Adobe Reader up-to-date yesterday so I would've been able to read that study without making assumptions--not that I didn't have sound assumptions, just that they were incorrect.

Gurrr! I am telling you, later on I thought about all that you said and I just knew it was probably TA! That is still an assumption, but it is rooted in knowledge of flavoring used by some of those vendors.

 

[imogene]

In all walks of my life I've always found there are people who believe their opinions are more important than mine. You are not a new experience for me.

You're having some kind of issue that has nothing to do with me.

I believe that vaping is safer than smoking. Please don't bombard me about whether I should be vaping or not just because I care to ask about what is in my ejuice. It's a basic question that I'm sure some other people also care about. If it's not an issue you care about, then I'm happy for you! This is not the thread for you. It's not your issue or concern.

I am a well-educated and intelligent person who wants to look at this issue objectively. Please just let me have that discussion with others who share that concern or who have relevant information without the criticisms for merely asking what is it that we're vaping. This is a board designed for support.

 

[imogene]

I'm sorry. I did misread that. I'm watching a TV show. I missed the "they". Then I reread it and I didn't understand what you meant, so I'm glad that you clarified.

I appreciate that you're a like-minded person. We might not agree on everything, but that doesn't matter. You're polite and reasonable and you make cogent posts.

I was surprised by the sarcasm and hostility that my thread generated because when I joined ECF these kinds of threads were welcome and created interesting discussions, but it was a much smaller community then. I suppose that size changes the atmosphere. You saved my thread. I appreciate that.

 

[Mr.Mann]

At the end of the night, the day begins. We are all trying to continue having are wonderful hobbies go on without interruption. More power to those that fight, more comfort to those that choose to relax.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Imogene, are you a member of CASAA? The next CASAA webinar (according to my last email) is October 7th, 2012 7:30 PM - 9:00 PM ET. I think you are well suited for that considering your sticktoitiveness and apparent veracity for research.

 

[imogene]

I understand that feeling. That happens to all of us. You asked logical questions. I followed. It's been a good discussion.

The threat of looming FDA regulation was a concern back then, too, way back in the Olden Days of Yore.

I assume that is what you refer to. If anything, I think the ruling in 2010 made things less murky and the concerns less all-encompassing. Now we know what is and isn't allowed because it has been defined.

One of my fears is that the possiibility that there is a fiasco looming that will affect the community negatively, perhaps an ejuice issue. For me, the health issue is my biggest concern, but I also worry that a big public relations fiasco caused by a less vigilant vendor could make it possible for ecigarettes to fall under a new classification and be strictly regulated in a way that is detrimental to you and me.

I'm not a member, but I have visited the website. I'll join. Maybe I can participate in the webinar.

But back on topic, I'm going to continue looking for more information. If I get really motivated, I might even send off a few emails.

I'll update with new information if I find any that is relevant.

 

[Mr.Mann]

"...Laboratory analyses of the liquids show that they are less toxic than regular cigarettes. Most studies have found no nitrosamines, but even in studies where nitrosamines were found, the levels detected were 500-1400 times less than the amount present in one tobacco cigarette. This means that electronic cigarettes must be used daily for 4-12 months to get the amount of nitrosamines present in a single tobacco cigarette..."

CASAA: Study of e-cigarette use finds no short-term effect for some measures of heart function

 

[imogene]

"...Laboratory analyses of the liquids show that they are less toxic than regular cigarettes. Most studies have found no nitrosamines, but even in studies where nitrosamines were found, the levels detected were 500-1400 times less than the amount present in one tobacco cigarette. This means that electronic cigarettes must be used daily for 4-12 months to get the amount of nitrosamines present in a single tobacco cigarette..."

CASAA: Study of e-cigarette use finds no short-term effect for some measures of heart function

Good source. That adds another ejuice vendor to the list of Good Guys. I went to the Nobacco website and they sell Dekang. Dekang has a USA Mix flavor, so I assume that is what was used.

I've vaped Dekang in the past. It's good to know that it was a good choice.

For the electronic cigarettes, a commercially available liquid with a nicotine concentration of 11mg/ml was used (NOBACCO USA Mix). This was tested by an independent toxicology laboratory and found to contain no nitrosamines or polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.