FDA What happens if/when

[krijmo]

Does anyone know WHEN the FDA is going to make their regulations that we are all speculating about?

I don't know what the FDA is going to decide, but I just received a 1000 ml bottle of 100mg/ml unflavored nicotine liquid in the mail. I vape 10mg/ml, so that's gonna last me a while. RTS vapes has them on sale for $49.00. I took some out for mixing what I need to vape for about the couple years, and the rest is staying in the freezer. My advice is, start stocking up now. Learn to make your own juice (it's about as easy as making a pitcher of kool-aid), and stock up. Even if you don't want to bother figuring out how to do DIY now, when prices soar from this FDA bullschnikey and liquid is 40 bucks for a 30ml bottle, or you can only get prefilled cartos filled with a ml of juice (if you're lucky) for 2 bucks a pop, you'll probably be more than motivated to pull your DIY vape Armageddon kit out of your freezer and figure it out.

 

[DC2]

Does anyone know WHEN the FDA is going to make their regulations that we are all speculating about?

Do you mean "make" them as in create them? Or make them as in issue them in final "approved" form to become law?
There is a big difference between the two, as the former has already been done for the most part, but the latter could happen anytime or never.

 

[Davey59]

I for one do not think it will be a broad sweeping lifer changing event. Think of the frog in a slow boil water method that the government almost always uses. This is a proven method for pulling things off. They will not outlaw a potential big tax revenue, especially when it may be addicting almost guaranteeing a future cash flow.

I believe it will be incremental so I am not going to jump on the Armageddon stockpiling bandwagon. I may have to pay for that later but probably not. Y2K comes to mind.

Not all regulation is a bad thing, people demonstrate the need for it everyday. It would not surprise me if they regulate it in a way that almost every single vape product will be imported.

 

[Burner52]

I think Regardless of what they do we'll still be able to get what we like- it just might be a little harder. As far as vaping in no smoking locations- it's not going to last.

 

[DC2]

Y2K comes to mind.

I wouldn't use Y2K as an example...

The whole Y2K computer thing absolutely WAS a disaster in the making.
It was only averted due to the efforts of millions of programmers around the world spending months or even years working to avert it.

I myself spent over 6 months applying fixes to the software that runs the company I work for.
The people that supplied those fixes for our software had been working on them for years.


I suppose if you want to use Y2K as an analogy though, it might be appropriate...

If you believe the coming FDA regulations are a disaster in the making.
And you have prepared properly and thoroughly for them.

Well, then Y2K might be an appropriate analogy.

 

[AndriaD]

This will be where the black market comes in. People who want 36mg, 48mg, 100mg will turn to the black market.

You don't need total prohibition to get a black market.

Absolutely! If the stupid-as-the-day-is-long government makes it so that 120ml of 100mg nicotine costs $120, but I can get it from "a guy I know" for $60, well obviously I'm going to go to the guy I know. Is it as "good" as what the gov't wants to mark-up 500%? Maybe not, but I can test it at least for the actual nicotine level, and not go broke. If it kills me, well then I won't need to worry about any of this anymore.

Andria

 

[Kent C]

Does anyone know WHEN the FDA is going to make their regulations that we are all speculating about?

I don't know what the FDA is going to decide, but I just received a 1000 ml bottle of 100mg/ml unflavored nicotine liquid in the mail. I vape 10mg/ml, so that's gonna last me a while. RTS vapes has them on sale for $49.00. I took some out for mixing what I need to vape for about the couple years, and the rest is staying in the freezer. My advice is, start stocking up now. Learn to make your own juice (it's about as easy as making a pitcher of kool-aid), and stock up. Even if you don't want to bother figuring out how to do DIY now, when prices soar from this FDA bullschnikey and liquid is 40 bucks for a 30ml bottle, or you can only get prefilled cartos filled with a ml of juice (if you're lucky) for 2 bucks a pop, you'll probably be more than motivated to pull your DIY vape Armageddon kit out of your freezer and figure it out.

There is a 24 month period after final rule (supposedly summer of 2015) where applications can be sent for substantial equivalence to predicate products and likely products applications for grandfather status. And final rule regulations will have to be 'okayed' by the White House OMB - likely no problem there. And there would be nothing preventing the FDA from imposing certain rules at that time, although there may very well be court cases involving the final rule and perhaps injunctions by courts delaying implementation until those cases would be judged.

 

[twgbonehead]

I for one do not think it will be a broad sweeping lifer changing event. Think of the frog in a slow boil water method that the government almost always uses. This is a proven method for pulling things off. They will not outlaw a potential big tax revenue, especially when it may be addicting almost guaranteeing a future cash flow.

I believe it will be incremental so I am not going to jump on the Armageddon stockpiling bandwagon. I may have to pay for that later but probably not. Y2K comes to mind.

Not all regulation is a bad thing, people demonstrate the need for it everyday. It would not surprise me if they regulate it in a way that almost every single vape product will be imported.

Except that the last time the FDA tried to ban e-cigarettes it was anything but incremental. They slammed the door hard, and seized massive quantities of e-cigarettes. And their proposed regulations say nothing about "phasing in" or anything of the sort. Why would you assume that they're going to do something entirely different than what they have proposed doing?

 

[krijmo]

Absolutely! If the stupid-as-the-day-is-long government makes it so that 120ml of 100mg nicotine costs $120, but I can get it from "a guy I know" for $60, well obviously I'm going to go to the guy I know. Is it as "good" as what the gov't wants to mark-up 500%? Maybe not, but I can test it at least for the actual nicotine level, and not go broke. If it kills me, well then I won't need to worry about any of this anymore.

Andria

Lol! I know that's right! I was sitting and staring at my giant bottle of nicotine thinking, I wonder how much the street value of this is going to be when the FDA makes their regulations. Congrats on quitting the cigs again!

 

[Davey59]

Except that the last time the FDA tried to ban e-cigarettes it was anything but incremental. They slammed the door hard, and seized massive quantities of e-cigarettes. And their proposed regulations say nothing about "phasing in" or anything of the sort. Why would you assume that they're going to do something entirely different than what they have proposed doing?

Not trying to argue, mostly because I am not informed enough to do it

I am not aware they had ever banned e cigarettes or slammed a door hard being as I can still buy them almost anywhere. I have not read any proposed regulations actually from the FDA, I have only read some things that BT and other groups would like to see in them.

 

[twgbonehead]

Not trying to argue, mostly because I am not informed enough to do it

I am not aware they had ever banned e cigarettes or slammed a door hard being as I can still buy them almost anywhere. I have not read any proposed regulations actually from the FDA, I have only read some things that BT and other groups would like to see in them.

They tried to. They got taken to court, and lost, and had to release all the stuff they seized. They had tried to restrict them as medical devices; the Judge decided they were "tobacco products" and therefore could not be regulated the way the FDA was trying to regulate them. So now the FDA is on a different tack.


You can find the proposal for the FDA's newest attempt here:
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...uired-warning-statements-for-tobacco-products

 

[The Cloud Minder]

With all these rumors of e-cigarettes being "regulated" or banned in the coming years, what in layman's terms are the implications? What EXACTLY does all this mean and how exactly with this affect US, the vapers themselves?

I mean here in the UK they sell e-juice in the Post Office. That seems encouraging. But I remember a pack of cigarettes being under a £1 (or under $1). Now after 25 years a pack can cost over £10 (or $13?).

My point is, I am nervous about a Prohibition type state. Imagine no e-juice available to buy, or no nicotine to be found. Will we ever get to that point?

And yes I am a vapoholic ☺


(I posted the same article in another forum, but after a few hours there is no reply. Maybe this is a more appropriate place to ask this?)

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Wow! Where do you buy Vapohol?

 

[PuffTheMagicKanthal]

I remember back in 2010, April 1st I think it was. The price of a lb of tobacco went from around $20 to about $70, $80. I was rolling my own back then, but I had to stop almost immediately and turned to pipe tobacco and the back to regular old skool stogies. This real people, it happened then, it could happen again. I was buying my tobacco from a pipe shop, a family run business, and I formed a rapport with them. They were genuine. And out of consideration for everyone, their clientele they stopped selling those pound bags. They refused to charge that price as an insult to smokers.

This is the scenario I fear.

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[Davey59]

Thanks for that information.

So without being overturned they will have to remain with the tobacco aspect of regulation. Hmmmm, that could be good for us. No doubt some over zealous idiot will overstep his/her authority at some point and back to court.

Looking at the link I see even less threat than I did when I woke up this morning.

 

[Jman8]

It all kinda Debatable.

How much Backlash do you foresee if the FDA Limited e-Liquid sales, in Liquid Form, to 18mg Face to Face Only?

As I said in earlier post. I see lots of backlash. Not epic amounts of it, but enough that it would be noticeable in mainstream media on a near daily basis for weeks while it is being considered. I think us ECF'ers would be attacking the position, very aggressively, for awhile. And I don't see it as an issue isolated to a few politically aware vapers.

 

[Tangaroav]

..... e-liquids, they may target specific dangerous ingredients. ....

 

[PuffTheMagicKanthal]

A problem I have come across is this: there are a few, not just 1 or 2, a few local stores and market stalls where I live that sells not what I would call clones, but outright counterfeit products, be that fake kanger clearomizers or fake ejuice.

Here's the deal, and this is how I first started out. I put a lot of money into buying such "things" as a "ce4" or whatever I was told it was I was buying. I knew no different, I was a vape virgin, a newbie, innocent. I thought this was the legit world of vaping. I knew no different.

My point? Juice would leak, into my mouth. All over my hands. Juice would taste weird. I was told by the vendor THIS WAS NORMAL! ALL CARTOMIZERS LEAKED to some degree. Just me with this experience? No. Many other people I spoke to were actually put off with this vaping concept that was all the rage. When I recommended vaping over smoking to them they said they had tried, but didn't understand what all the fuss was about as all they experienced was leaking juice everywhere, in their purse, in their pocket, etc, etc. They went back to smoking.

Was this just the deal back in the day? Nope. These very same local businesses are the exact same today as they were back then. Nothing has change and the vaping clientele are none the wiser. These vendors dont do it for the love of the vaping community, they are in it for the money. They see the gold rush that it is right now. These vendors I see on their Facebook go on extravagant vacations, and all the conventions across the country.
Jealous? Sort of. But only for obvious reasons. It was the Internet that saved me. The YouTube videos, THIS and other forums, Fasttech, other websites that all sell LEGIT products. I mean the legit products are in a league of their own. The craftsmanship and heart that goes into producing such products is mind blowing!

My point? After having said what I just have, one can clearly see where regulations coming into play are viable, and even to our benefit. It has been these "dirty dealers", the already existing black market, and that's what it is, has ruined a lot of the legitimacy and integrity that we genuine vapers are accustomed to.

Makes sense?

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[zoiDman]

...

My point? After having said what I just have, one can clearly see where regulations coming into play are viable, and even to our benefit. It has been these "dirty dealers", the already existing black market, and that's what it is, has ruined a lot of the legitimacy and integrity that we genuine vapers are accustomed to.

Makes sense?

I hear what you are Saying. And I agree that the Dumping of Sub-Standard Hardware into the Market has had a Negative Effect.

But Remember, the FDA role in the is to Regulate "Tobacco Products". That is the Extent of their Authority. So if I Don't Market a Real or Bootleg Carto as something to be used with a "Tobacco Product", or sell it Pre-Filled with a "Tobacco Product", the FDA Doesn't have any real Authority to Regulate or Restrict the Carto.

So Don't look for the FDA to be the Consumer Reports or Underwritter's Laboratories for e-Cigarette Hardware.

What the FDA s going to do is Regulate and Restrict the Sale of e-Liquids that contain Nicotine that has been Derived from Tobacco Plants. That is what they have been Tasked to do by Congress.

 

[AndriaD]

And sometimes even legit tanks/etc leak -- liquid + gravity = sometimes it leaks.

I have genuine Kanger T3S tanks; if they're not wicked just right, they leak. Yeah, they're cheap, so that's probably why, not that they're knock-offs. Same for my genuine Mini Protank II's, though they're somewhat less cheap.

I have genuine Smoktech cartos... and the entire last batch I bought of 'em has leaked -- not much, not enough to make a huge mess or anything, but enough that I have to take the tank off the Vamo now and then (more often than I need to refill it) and swab the battery post so it doesn't build up and a) cause gurgling, and/or b) leak down into the battery compartment.

The only tanks I've got that don't *usually* leak are clones, so some might consider them knock-offs; Tobeco KFL+. But they don't try to present themselves as being "actual kayfuns" -- they don't have that lying text on the bottom about being designed in Russia, made in Germany, and they come in a box on which "Tobeco" is prominently and proudly displayed, and I can understand Tobeco wanting to take credit for them, because they're excellent products. And notice above, I said they don't *usually* leak -- but if I over-prime the wick, then I have to blow out the excess before it vapes worth a flip; and if I go from dry 75 degree air conditioning out to humid 95 degree summer heat, sometimes they leak just a smidge, because of changing air-pressure conditions.

People who quit vaping because their tanks leaked, IMO, didn't really want to quit smoking in the first place, or they would have persevered and found something that didn't leak, or didn't leak *as much* -- because liquid, in gravity, is generally always going to seek to go lower, and if it can find a place, it's going to leak. People who actually do want to vape instead of smoke, will find a way to make it work. Even if it leaks.

Andria

 

[Smok-ey]

So if they ban e-cigarette should they ban cigarettes? Cause if you think about the logic...Cigarette kills and Vapor heals...

They should ban the FDA for being stupid.

Saunas and Vaporiser should also be banned... Should toasters be ban because they produce small metal particles when on?

What about cars or big chemical industries polluting?

Should I go on about new technology coming out but being bought by major industries because of the good that may come to humanity and they would lose so much money?

We should ban RedBull what is the purpose of this drink other than coffee replacement...

Sorry venting...this is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. We should eliminate analogues and replace them with this new technology...