What is life expectancy of E-Liquid / E-Juice?

[Ryedan]

Wow 10 + years, where do you get these open then closed with oxygen magical bottles ?

It is generally accepted that nic base stored bellow 0 C will last at least that long. The nic strength will likely go down a bit, but not too much. Yes I know, 'generally accepted' is not a scientific argument, but I've read enough about it from posters I respect to believe it to be true. I believe Nude Nic's product is marketing hype. YMMV as always of course

 

[Alien Traveler]

I also doubt there is much to the water passing through plastic. From decades of experience with plastic moulding I know all plastic absorbs some water, but not much and very little will actually pass through.

The second point is interesting. Microbes will not grow easily in PG or VG, but Roly's point was about water vapor condensing inside the bottle.

Ultimately though, some people have had juice go bad in the fridge so it can happen for whatever reason. Considering juice is good for at least a year at room temperature it wouldn't bother me much. Freeze it and take out a years supply at a time

Easy to explain. If you open cold bottle just from a freezer water vapor from air will condense on insides (as well as outsides) of a bottle. Easy solution: do not open a bottle from a feezer until it reaches room temperature.

 

[sparkky1]

It is generally accepted that nic base stored bellow 0 C will last at least that long. The nic strength will likely go down a bit, but not too much. Yes I know, 'generally accepted' is not a scientific argument, but I've read enough about it from posters I respect to believe it to be true. I believe Nude Nic's product is marketing hype. YMMV as always of course

marketing hype ? then why wouldn't they (hype) it (up) a little not down to reality ?

 

[Ryedan]

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marketing hype ? then why wouldn't they (hype) it (up) a little not down to reality ?

I don't understand your question sparkky1.

 

[sparkky1]

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I don't understand your question sparkky1.

So your saying they (PhD chemist at nude) really have no idea and just wing it with the "marketing" idea to argon fill with sealed lids for 5.00 more and don't really have a clue if it will make any difference ?

 

[Alien Traveler]

So your saying they (PhD chemist at nude) really have no idea and just wing it with the "marketing" idea to argon fill with sealed lids for 5.00 more and don't really have a clue if it will make any difference ?

Actually it is usual practice for very oxygen-sensitive chemicals. Argon filled bottles with nicotine are a little bit better than bottles without argon. Does it worth $5? I think no. But I have bought 4 bottles anyway - for convenience. Nice size for freezing.

 

[Steamix]

Vendors HAVE to put a 'use by...' date on anything consumable.
A lot of is CYA. The yoghurt which is good for sale till say 03Oct isn't gonna turn into some deadly toxin 04Oct.
So the 'use by' is more a 'sell by' date, after wich the couldn't sell it to you.
How long you manage to keep it palatable is another story.

Seen a clip once - tv show sent out a notary public to shop for groceries and kept them way past expiration date ( under the recommended storage conditions though ). Had the stuff then checked by a food lab to establish it's safe ( not necessarily tasty ) to eat. Turned out that mort of was still fine - safety- and tastewise.

Very much the same with juice. If it's not flaky and smell's still ok, then it's worth a try.
Is a bit like wine - by no means a static or 'dead' mixture - it does ripen and age. Wine tilts eventually, too. Makes these wine auctions interesting, cuz one never knows whether the buyer just got him/herself some exquisite drop or hopelessly overpriced vinegar
I reckon with juices it's like that too. Some might go off, others might get better.

Time to empty that barrel of wine, fill it with my favourite juice. Gonna ly in my grave chuckling over my grandkids tryin to figure out what dat old geezer been up to

 

[Ryedan]

So your saying they (PhD chemist at nude) really have no idea and just wing it with the "marketing" idea to argon fill with sealed lids for 5.00 more and don't really have a clue if it will make any difference ?

I believe they understand the chemistry, which is to me unfortunate. On their website they say:

"We rate the shelf-life of this nicotine base to be upwards of two years without degradation or oxidation. All you need to provide is a freezer (~ -20C) for storage!"

So they claim their extended shelf life packaging delivers zero degradation for two years at -20 deg C. Sounds impressive, right?

Madvapes did an experiment on nicotine degradation over time a few years ago. They tested nic base in a refrigerator, at room temperature, room temperature in sunlight and at room temperature in sunlight in an open bottle. Here are the results. It would have been better if they didn't stop collecting data after only four months, but at least we have that.

Look at the data and you'll see that nic in ordinary storage degrades very slowly and the colder you store it the less degradation occurs. Open bottles and sunlight are issues but do not make a catastrophic difference. No noticeable degradation after four months in the fridge means to me that at worst you'll lose 2% per year so after 10 years you will have lost 20%. That should be significantly less, say 10%, if you store it in a freezer so my 100 MG/ML base will become 90 MG/ML. Maybe the degradation accelerates a bit over time? I don't know but I can live with that

Nude Nic claims zero degradation after two years. I doubt that's true, there has to be some degradation unless you take the temperature to zero kelvin. That's picking a nit, but I believe it's a valid point as they are marketing zero degradation. They also don't compare the staying power of their process to others on the market and do not extrapolate to longer time frames.

For me this is classic marketing 101. Claim 'new and improved' and do not mention there is only a 2% (insert any other small number of your choice) improvement in performance but imply a significant benefit to consumers. I don't buy it but as I said before YMMV.

 

[Captain Pegleg]

I'm buying a ton of it to taste various blends and want to make sure that I'm spending my money wisely.

What is the expected shelf life of E-Liquids?

I put two 125ml flasks in the refrigerator. It is VG primarily. Is that wise? Will it extend the shelf life by much?

VG can go bad if not kept sealed and cool, I'd give it about 2 years ideally.

PG much longer.

My main worry would be flavorings. I have no clue how long each flavoring component would keep. VG in the fridge is good.

My recent experience: bought past-date juices, same flavor, same brand, high PG tasted fine, high VG tasted nasty.

 

[Captain Pegleg]

I believe they understand the chemistry, which is to me unfortunate. On their website they say:

"We rate the shelf-life of this nicotine base to be upwards of two years without degradation or oxidation. All you need to provide is a freezer (~ -20C) for storage!"

So they claim their extended shelf life packaging delivers zero degradation for two years at -20 deg C. Sounds impressive, right?

Madvapes did an experiment on nicotine degradation over time a few years ago. They tested nic base in a refrigerator, at room temperature, room temperature in sunlight and at room temperature in sunlight in an open bottle. Here are the results. It would have been better if they didn't stop collecting data after only four months, but at least we have that.

Look at the data and you'll see that nic in ordinary storage degrades very slowly and the colder you store it the less degradation occurs. Open bottles and sunlight are issues but do not make a catastrophic difference. No noticeable degradation after four months in the fridge means to me that at worst you'll lose 2% per year so after 10 years you will have lost 20%. That should be significantly less, say 10%, if you store it in a freezer so my 100 MG/ML base will become 90 MG/ML. Maybe the degradation accelerates a bit over time? I don't know but I can live with that

Nude Nic claims zero degradation after two years. I doubt that's true, there has to be some degradation unless you take the temperature to zero kelvin. That's picking a nit, but I believe it's a valid point as they are marketing zero degradation. They also don't compare the staying power of their process to others on the market and do not extrapolate to longer time frames.

For me this is classic marketing 101. Claim 'new and improved' and do not mention there is only a 2% (insert any other small number of your choice) improvement in performance but imply a significant benefit to consumers. I don't buy it but as I said before YMMV.

Like how those mattresses, you can jump on them with a glass of wine and not knock it over...! You could also do that on concrete...point is, how well do you SLEEP on it

 

[Ryedan]

Like how those mattresses, you can jump on them with a glass of wine and not knock it over...! You could also do that on concrete...point is, how well do you SLEEP on it

I really like waterbeds too

 

[Alien Traveler]

Madvapes did an experiment on nicotine degradation over time a few years ago. They tested nic base in a refrigerator, at room temperature, room temperature in sunlight and at room temperature in sunlight in an open bottle. Here are the results. It would have been better if they didn't stop collecting data after only four months, but at least we have that.
.......
Nude Nic claims zero degradation after two years. I doubt that's true, there has to be some degradation unless you take the temperature to zero kelvin.

I believe them here. According to your link Madvapes found out that there were no changes in nicotine stored at room temperature for 3 months. In freezer everything will be slowed 16 times, so it will be at least 48 months till changes will be detectable. At least - because they kept nicotine in office, not in dark place. Darkness will slow things even more. I do expect at least 5 years of freezer storage without changes. Then -small, insignificant changes (for how long?), then - peppery stuff... I am not afraid to store nicotine for 15 years (but sure, cannot prove).

NudeNicotine cannot say officially you can store nicotine for so long - they need to test it first. Testing for 15 years?..

 

[David Wolf]

It is generally accepted that nic base stored bellow 0 C will last at least that long. The nic strength will likely go down a bit, but not too much. Yes I know, 'generally accepted' is not a scientific argument, but I've read enough about it from posters I respect to believe it to be true. I believe Nude Nic's product is marketing hype. YMMV as always of course

I think it's a good idea. Removing oxygen will prevent oxidation.

 

[Str8vision]

Heat, light, oxygen and water (moisture), are enemies when it comes to viable shelf life of e-liquids. Both PG and VG are bacteriostatic and have antifungal properties making them quite suitable/stable for long term storage purposes. Oxidation is what causes a juice to darken and lose flavor and some flavors are more susceptible to the negative effects of oxidation than are others. A typical synthetic flavored juice stored in a cool dark place while sealed in a soft plastic container will begin to oxidize, darken and start losing flavor in about 3-6 months but will usually remain viable for a year. The same juice stored under similar conditions but in a sealed glass container will last longer because oxygen doesn't permeate through glass. Even after a juice begins to oxidize it's still viable until the flavor become unpalatable to the user. Water, even small amounts, can dramatically change the equation for the worse and unfortunately both PG and VG are hygroscopic, readily absorbing moisture from the air. Keeping your juice sealed in airtight glass containers while storing them in a cool dark place will prolong their shelf life and flavor, the less head space in the container the better/longer the shelf life. I have tobacco extracts that are three years old and taste as good now as when they were fresh because I go to -great lengths- protecting them from the oxidizing effects of heat, light, oxygen and moisture.

 

[Outlaw Trucker]

For me juice has a very short life expectancy, especially unicorn milk or milkman.

 

[englishmick]

So your saying they (PhD chemist at nude) really have no idea and just wing it with the "marketing" idea to argon fill with sealed lids for 5.00 more and don't really have a clue if it will make any difference ?

The comments on the NN site have been discussed before. I believe they say for example that nic will degrade faster at higher concentrations, which is contrary to what other people say. Their page on nicotine storage doesn't match up with the consensus. Though that doesn't mean they are wrong.

As far as mixed juice goes I always wondered why everyone says it shouldn't be kept in the fridge. I don't know much chemistry but I would have guessed any chemical reaction should slow down. On the other hand I've left bananas in the back of my truck in the winter and they really didn't look too good in the morning.

 

[duby1622]

i know nothing about chemistry, and do not mix my own juice. All i can add is my own experience.

I fell off the wagon for about a year. Started vaping again a little over 2 months ago. I started back up using my leftover juice from almost 2 years of previous vaping. In the past two months, i have tried almost 20 different flavors i had left over. They were all stored tightly sealed in a cool dark place. Some had more head room than others. All the juices are at least 12 months old, with most of them between 18 months and 2 years old. Every single one tasted better than they had when i first got them/remember them. Several of them are so much better (especially the ahlusion mentioned previously) that i am tempted to way overstock, so that much of my liquid can steep a year or more.