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Is that a fact or a honest opinion
I have some genesis on the way that I'll probably get...eventually. I have a Penelope now.. The only real fact is that it doesn't leak ever. Opinions: Dealing with the two different wire resistances is a bigger pain than I expected but, I can see getting it down. It delivers outstanding flavor and vapor. I don't know whether it's because I'm hitting it more or because of the device but, I'm going through a lot more juice. I'm really liking it so far.
It has a small juice capacity;my mini-Kayfun has the same cap and does it steam through it quick hell yeah
Leaking is just a matter of getting the mesh right. I know its probably not helpful now, but my gen is rolling on the couch and hopping around in my pocket, without leaking. Mesh in fact is your "juice control", especially if you close the tanks air hole (meaning air has to go through the wick hole to get in the tank). Then thickness of your mesh will dictate the wicking.
I had some leaking issues with it when I first got it. I think that the appropriate statement would be "Fact: If assembled properly, Penelope doesn't leak, ever." I cut the wick tails too long, and they were pushing past the very bottom O-ring and causing a bit of leaking...and I hadn't learned that you have to let Penelope feed you the vapor, instead of trying to suck it out.
The wire is pretty easy to work with once you get the hang of it though. I'm on almost a week with this coil.
It's never too late to learn
I am not giving up on all my genesis mods yet, just have kept them and all other mods aside since my Penelope + Provari combo. Of course it's not been long enough time with the Penelope to swear by it, but have been very happy with it. Will try playing with the wick thickness, but when I last tried closing out the air inlet hole with a toothpick, it stopped wicking well... How do you get around that?
Wicking is directly related to capability of air coming in the tank. Too much air, and it'll leak. Too little, and it wicks too slow. And you know this. Its just a matter of finding a happy medium for your device.
So, if you close air intake hole, your wick must be a little thinner than the wick hole. That way air will go in through the same hole liquid is coming out. It is going to wick well, but once wick gets saturated, it will effectively close the hole with liquid, so wicking will stop, or slow down a lot. I also close the top of the mesh (close the tube).
Well, I just got my Penelope in tonight and WOW.... its amazing. The taste is, well, basically like dripping. All you taste is the juice. And the vapor production is awesome once you fiddle with it. There is definitely a bit of a learning curve. Screwed up my first coil attempt by not tucking the wires under the wick thereby creating a short. I'm glad the Provari shows the E1 error or I might have taken longer to figure out the issue. The airflow took a bit of adjusting to. I overestimated how much of a gap I'd need at first, and I think I still have it a bit large. The juice control is awesome but I have to admit I'm still learning how to adjust it. Flooded it once, and had it too tight other times, but I'm learning how to dial it in. That combined with your voltage setting really seems to affect vapor production. Upping the voltage and opening the juice really cranks up the vapor, but I haven't figured it out. ... I've only been using it about 2-3 hours. Oh, and the coils are a cinch. Nothing to it. That or I got lucky. Really though, it was about as straight forward as can be. Took maybe 3 minutes tops.
Is the Penelope "it" for me? Hard to say after three hours. I've found my "dislikes" about something may take a few days to come to the surface, but so far so good. I'm very impressed. Far more than I've been with anything else except maybe the first time I dripped into a 306 atty. With this though there is no dripping, just sit back and enjoy a great vape. Knowing me I'll probably end up trying a zenesis and maybe something else too, but I don't think I'll ever be going back to cartos (except briefly after this first coil burns out)...
... Now off to figure out what wick and wire to use and where to source it all.
Is the Penelope "it" for me? Hard to say after three hours. I've found my "dislikes" about something may take a few days to come to the surface, but so far so good. I'm very impressed. Far more than I've been with anything else except maybe the first time I dripped into a 306 atty. With this though there is no dripping, just sit back and enjoy a great vape.
Knowing me I'll probably end up trying a zenesis and maybe something else too, but I don't think I'll ever be going back to cartos (except briefly after this first coil burns out)...... Now off to figure out what wick and wire to use and where to source it all.
36 or 34 A-1 kanthal are the best imo
Then there is wick...if you can find some braided 3mm,you`ll be all set.
Then there is wick...if you can find some braided 3mm,you`ll be all set.
I'm using this nickel wire for the NR wire. It's cheaper and easier to get than the .999 fine silver I was using. I'm doing okay with 32 ga kanthal. I may try to get some 34ga eventually.
For wick, if you want silica, there's this wick at avidvapor. I'm experimenting with different wick materials. The cotton yarn I picked up at Hobby Lobby seems to be the best so far. I pulled off about 60 feet and boiled it twice to get the sizing out. If you use a cotton wick, your coil wrap needs to be on the loose side.
For wick, if you want silica, there's this wick at avidvapor. I'm experimenting with different wick materials. The cotton yarn I picked up at Hobby Lobby seems to be the best so far. I pulled off about 60 feet and boiled it twice to get the sizing out. If you use a cotton wick, your coil wrap needs to be on the loose side.
Well, I just got my Penelope in tonight and WOW.... its amazing. The taste is, well, basically like dripping. All you taste is the juice. And the vapor production is awesome once you fiddle with it. There is definitely a bit of a learning curve. Screwed up my first coil attempt by not tucking the wires under the wick thereby creating a short. I'm glad the Provari shows the E1 error or I might have taken longer to figure out the issue. The airflow took a bit of adjusting to. I overestimated how much of a gap I'd need at first, and I think I still have it a bit large. The juice control is awesome but I have to admit I'm still learning how to adjust it. Flooded it once, and had it too tight other times, but I'm learning how to dial it in. That combined with your voltage setting really seems to affect vapor production. Upping the voltage and opening the juice really cranks up the vapor, but I haven't figured it out. ... I've only been using it about 2-3 hours. Oh, and the coils are a cinch. Nothing to it. That or I got lucky. Really though, it was about as straight forward as can be. Took maybe 3 minutes tops.
Is the Penelope "it" for me? Hard to say after three hours. I've found my "dislikes" about something may take a few days to come to the surface, but so far so good. I'm very impressed. Far more than I've been with anything else except maybe the first time I dripped into a 306 atty. With this though there is no dripping, just sit back and enjoy a great vape.
... Now off to figure out what wick and wire to use and where to source it all.
I'm glad that you found something that you like.
Couple of other things I've learned: The wick takes a little bit to break in. The first hour or so for me requires the liquid control to be open pretty far. Once I'm on day two or three with it, I can have it down at a quarter - half turn and it works fine. I tend to fill it up about every three-four hours, or before I'm going to do something that I'll be away from my stash for a while. It's usually pretty low by then.
Hot cars make Penelope sad. If you're going to be leaving her in your car while you're at work or away for a few hours, close down the liquid control and vape off what's on the wick if you can. Otherwise it'll leak out from the expansion. I take her off my mod and place them seperately at that point too.
Most of all though, Enjoy!
Awesome, thanks for the links and tips, guys. Appreciate it.
So after one full day, I'm still digging it. A lot! The flavor is where it really shines. Even dripping on a 306 yields a very slight metallic taste, but the Penelope is so pure. All I'm tasting is the liquid. Its just amazing how completely pure the flavor comes through. I've never experienced anything quite like vaping.
Vapor quantity, quality, and temperature is where I'm having issues though. These things can only be affected by a couple of variables, and in my thinking the likely culprits are the juice control and airflow control, but don't let me put ideas into your head. It could also be the juice, voltage setting, the way I wrapped the coil, coil resistance, coil material, or even the wick material.
Vapor Quantity:
Sometimes I get amazing clouds of vapor and then other times very little. Sometimes opening the juice control helps and other times it hurts. Not sure why. I think I can rule out the juice as a suspect because it produces nice clouds on the Kanger horizontal-coil cartos, and it has produced nice clouds here and there on the Penelope. It could be the way I vape. I tend to chain vape (one drag after another with only a pause of 5-30 seconds). I would think opening the juice control would help, and sometimes it seems to, but other times its like it get worse. Am I flooding it? Could anything about the coil be it?
Vapor Quality:
The vapor I'm getting seems to be large heavy droplets, more like steam... not the finely dispersed tiny droplets I'm used to out of my Kangers. In fact, it feels a lot more like breathing in thick steam from a shower than it does like smoking, whereas the fine vapor I've been getting from the Kangers feels very natural. Now this could still be caused by juice and airflow controls, but I'm also thinking this could be a lack of heat from the coil or even the wick itself. According to EvilGrym in the thread linked by MickyRat, a cotton wick does a better job finely dispersing the vapor. Thoughts/ideas?
Vapor temp:
I like a warm, sometimes very warm, vape. The Kangers I'm used to put out a very nice warm vape, as did the Boges I used to use, and also as does a 306. The vape out of the Penelope seems quite cool though. Unfortunately I'm worried this may be a limitation of the design. The coil is actually a good distance away from the user's mouth. It might be better on an Odysseus (since it looks shorter). In theory though the temp should be tweak-able by adjusting the voltage on my device. I haven't had much luck with that though. Turning it up too much starts affecting the flavor and opening the juice control enough to compensate seems like it starts to flood it. Maybe if I build a higher ohm coil (with extra turns?) the increased surface area might better heat the liquid (?). I don't know. I may just have to get used to it or swap it for an Odysseus. Any thoughts on this?
Don't get me wrong an any way. The Penelope is one of the best vapes I have ever had. I just want to be able to get the most from it I can.
So after one full day, I'm still digging it. A lot! The flavor is where it really shines. Even dripping on a 306 yields a very slight metallic taste, but the Penelope is so pure. All I'm tasting is the liquid. Its just amazing how completely pure the flavor comes through. I've never experienced anything quite like vaping.
Vapor quantity, quality, and temperature is where I'm having issues though. These things can only be affected by a couple of variables, and in my thinking the likely culprits are the juice control and airflow control, but don't let me put ideas into your head. It could also be the juice, voltage setting, the way I wrapped the coil, coil resistance, coil material, or even the wick material.
Vapor Quantity:
Sometimes I get amazing clouds of vapor and then other times very little. Sometimes opening the juice control helps and other times it hurts. Not sure why. I think I can rule out the juice as a suspect because it produces nice clouds on the Kanger horizontal-coil cartos, and it has produced nice clouds here and there on the Penelope. It could be the way I vape. I tend to chain vape (one drag after another with only a pause of 5-30 seconds). I would think opening the juice control would help, and sometimes it seems to, but other times its like it get worse. Am I flooding it? Could anything about the coil be it?
Vapor Quality:
The vapor I'm getting seems to be large heavy droplets, more like steam... not the finely dispersed tiny droplets I'm used to out of my Kangers. In fact, it feels a lot more like breathing in thick steam from a shower than it does like smoking, whereas the fine vapor I've been getting from the Kangers feels very natural. Now this could still be caused by juice and airflow controls, but I'm also thinking this could be a lack of heat from the coil or even the wick itself. According to EvilGrym in the thread linked by MickyRat, a cotton wick does a better job finely dispersing the vapor. Thoughts/ideas?
Vapor temp:
I like a warm, sometimes very warm, vape. The Kangers I'm used to put out a very nice warm vape, as did the Boges I used to use, and also as does a 306. The vape out of the Penelope seems quite cool though. Unfortunately I'm worried this may be a limitation of the design. The coil is actually a good distance away from the user's mouth. It might be better on an Odysseus (since it looks shorter). In theory though the temp should be tweak-able by adjusting the voltage on my device. I haven't had much luck with that though. Turning it up too much starts affecting the flavor and opening the juice control enough to compensate seems like it starts to flood it. Maybe if I build a higher ohm coil (with extra turns?) the increased surface area might better heat the liquid (?). I don't know. I may just have to get used to it or swap it for an Odysseus. Any thoughts on this?
Don't get me wrong an any way. The Penelope is one of the best vapes I have ever had. I just want to be able to get the most from it I can.
Couple of thoughts:
When it floods, you'll know. There's a sort of gurgling and it doesn't produce much vapor. Flooding also seems to fill up the air area on mine, so it becomes very difficult to draw through.
I wonder how you're vaping. Do you take a 'warm-up' puff? I've found that if I don't do that, I get a very light vapor. It seems to me that the coil takes a moment to heat up all the way. I use a variable wattage device, so I don't know much about adjusting voltage for it, maybe that could have something to do with how much it's producing?
On the subject of thickness, that'll change as your coil gets gunked up. When I first got Penelope, a fresh coil would vape better than I could handle. It wasn't because I was drawing for too long, it was just how thick of vapor it was producing. After I've been using it for a few weeks now, it seems normal, and honestly, makes my cartos that I use at work seem a bit piddly. Also, as the coil gets gunked up from the stuff that doesn't vaporize well, it'll mellow out a bit. What I've read about using cotton wick is that it wicks great, but it's subject to burning. I imagine that once it burns, it's shot. I would just as soon stick with a silica wick that can recover incase I accidently burn it somehow.
Gosh...I had too many things that I wanted to say and now have forgotten half of them. Ah well, it'll come back to me.
When it floods, you'll know. There's a sort of gurgling and it doesn't produce much vapor. Flooding also seems to fill up the air area on mine, so it becomes very difficult to draw through.
I wonder how you're vaping. Do you take a 'warm-up' puff? I've found that if I don't do that, I get a very light vapor. It seems to me that the coil takes a moment to heat up all the way. I use a variable wattage device, so I don't know much about adjusting voltage for it, maybe that could have something to do with how much it's producing?
On the subject of thickness, that'll change as your coil gets gunked up. When I first got Penelope, a fresh coil would vape better than I could handle. It wasn't because I was drawing for too long, it was just how thick of vapor it was producing. After I've been using it for a few weeks now, it seems normal, and honestly, makes my cartos that I use at work seem a bit piddly. Also, as the coil gets gunked up from the stuff that doesn't vaporize well, it'll mellow out a bit. What I've read about using cotton wick is that it wicks great, but it's subject to burning. I imagine that once it burns, it's shot. I would just as soon stick with a silica wick that can recover incase I accidently burn it somehow.
Gosh...I had too many things that I wanted to say and now have forgotten half of them. Ah well, it'll come back to me.
Couple of thoughts:
When it floods, you'll know. There's a sort of gurgling and it doesn't produce much vapor. Flooding also seems to fill up the air area on mine, so it becomes very difficult to draw through.
I wonder how you're vaping. Do you take a 'warm-up' puff? I've found that if I don't do that, I get a very light vapor. It seems to me that the coil takes a moment to heat up all the way. I use a variable wattage device, so I don't know much about adjusting voltage for it, maybe that could have something to do with how much it's producing?
On the subject of thickness, that'll change as your coil gets gunked up. When I first got Penelope, a fresh coil would vape better than I could handle. It wasn't because I was drawing for too long, it was just how thick of vapor it was producing. After I've been using it for a few weeks now, it seems normal, and honestly, makes my cartos that I use at work seem a bit piddly. Also, as the coil gets gunked up from the stuff that doesn't vaporize well, it'll mellow out a bit. What I've read about using cotton wick is that it wicks great, but it's subject to burning. I imagine that once it burns, it's shot. I would just as soon stick with a silica wick that can recover incase I accidently burn it somehow.
Gosh...I had too many things that I wanted to say and now have forgotten half of them. Ah well, it'll come back to me.
Thanks.
Well, I don't think I'm flooding it then. Is it possible that I am over-saturating the wick/coil by opening up the juice control too much... so that its sort of drowning the coil? Just grasping for straws here.
No, I don't take a warmer puff, but it's worth a shot. If its not heating up fast enough, maybe I need to press the button and let the coil sizzle for a moment before drawing too. Adjusting the voltage is kinda tough for me on this because it's only about a 1.7ohm coil. I use mostly 2.8-3ohm cartos so I don't really know my voltage in this range. Reverse figuring the watts seems to help (I envy you variable wattage guys,lol), but I still don't think I've got it dialed in right.
As for the thickness, maybe it will just work itself out then. What you're describing makes me think about watching videos of guys setting up a genesis and cooking VG onto the wick. Maybe there is something to that. ... I'm still not certain about cotton either, but the health aspects of the silica worry me, so I'm probably going to try other wick materials anyway. Burnt cotton doesn't smell good, so it has to be nasty during a vape, but it really shouldn't burn as long as it's moist. For now though I'm just going to keep vaping it and see where it goes.
When you remember what else it was you wanted to say, I'll be here.
btw, do you think I should just start a new thread for these questions or keep them here?
I don't think that it can get over-saturated other than flooding. I have noticed that every time I get a flood with gurgling and all of that, there tends to be a drop or two of juice inside my 510 connector on my mod.
(Borrowed the image from KentC, it's linked to here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ask-veterans/299636-power-chart-volts-ohms-watts-amps.html )
Maybe that will help a bit, it's a cross-reference volts plus ohms equals watts. Makes it a bit easier to look up specific(ish) numbers. I suppose that if you know what voltage/resistance you have at 3.0, you could sort of shoot for that area in the 1.7ohm range?
The only thing that I don't like about the kick, is that it tends to shut itself off when the battery hits 3.7ish. Normally that'd be fine, but we're talking about IMR's with a 2000mAh capacity. I probably go through 2 batteries a day.
I just whipped up a fresh coil and the old one had a solid layer of gunk on it. It was starting to make my throat scratchy which is usually my clue that it's old...it's how I used to tell when my cartos had fouled.
(Borrowed the image from KentC, it's linked to here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ask-veterans/299636-power-chart-volts-ohms-watts-amps.html )
Maybe that will help a bit, it's a cross-reference volts plus ohms equals watts. Makes it a bit easier to look up specific(ish) numbers.
I suppose that if you know what voltage/resistance you have at 3.0, you could sort of shoot for that area in the 1.7ohm range?The only thing that I don't like about the kick, is that it tends to shut itself off when the battery hits 3.7ish. Normally that'd be fine, but we're talking about IMR's with a 2000mAh capacity. I probably go through 2 batteries a day.
I just whipped up a fresh coil and the old one had a solid layer of gunk on it. It was starting to make my throat scratchy which is usually my clue that it's old...it's how I used to tell when my cartos had fouled.
Thanks.
Well, I don't think I'm flooding it then. Is it possible that I am over-saturating the wick/coil by opening up the juice control too much... so that its sort of drowning the coil? Just grasping for straws here.
No, I don't take a warmer puff, but it's worth a shot. If its not heating up fast enough, maybe I need to press the button and let the coil sizzle for a moment before drawing too. Adjusting the voltage is kinda tough for me on this because it's only about a 1.7ohm coil. I use mostly 2.8-3ohm cartos so I don't really know my voltage in this range. Reverse figuring the watts seems to help (I envy you variable wattage guys,lol), but I still don't think I've got it dialed in right.
As for the thickness, maybe it will just work itself out then. What you're describing makes me think about watching videos of guys setting up a genesis and cooking VG onto the wick. Maybe there is something to that. ... I'm still not certain about cotton either, but the health aspects of the silica worry me, so I'm probably going to try other wick materials anyway. Burnt cotton doesn't smell good, so it has to be nasty during a vape, but it really shouldn't burn as long as it's moist. For now though I'm just going to keep vaping it and see where it goes.
When you remember what else it was you wanted to say, I'll be here.
btw, do you think I should just start a new thread for these questions or keep them here?
Oh, you might be better off on a new thread. Not many people are going to want to read through this whole thing.
Some tips:
Prime the coil with juice in the beginning and don't open the flow control at all and vape a few puffs, when you feel the vapor is going dry, open the juice flow, a little. Initially I was opening the flow too much and causing flooding, but figured out that I need only half a turn to get juice into the atty in the right quantity.
At the GG thread u have read about people using 7V on a 1.5 atty! It seems that these attys can take it, so you could crank up voltage until the Provari shows an error, then back it up a lil and vape.
The GG sub forum is a cool place to get expert advice. Lots of helpful veterans there.
Prime the coil with juice in the beginning and don't open the flow control at all and vape a few puffs, when you feel the vapor is going dry, open the juice flow, a little. Initially I was opening the flow too much and causing flooding, but figured out that I need only half a turn to get juice into the atty in the right quantity.
At the GG thread u have read about people using 7V on a 1.5 atty! It seems that these attys can take it, so you could crank up voltage until the Provari shows an error, then back it up a lil and vape.
The GG sub forum is a cool place to get expert advice. Lots of helpful veterans there.
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