What tank do you run your gunky stuff on.
- Thread starter ronchinoy
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Thanks to the info I got on here. Coil gunk is no longer a problem.
I have found that in a full tank off juice i.e. 4.5 ML. All I need is 4 drops off my NET. And the flavor hit is strong.
For the real buzz. I still have to mix 50-50 i.e. 50% my net and 50% a Diy flavor.
With the 4 drop method my coils are not gunking any more than say the Hangsen flavors. Im vaping Indian, RY4, Camel and they all tend to coat the coils.
With build up.
To answer some of the questions.
a. Nothing works as good as the microwave for speed steeping or extraction. Its not the temp. Its how long you maintain that temp. Ask Granny how she made pickles. They would leave it out in the sun. Why ?. Its the long hours of heat not how hot that does the work.
My microwave is 950 watts. And I run it at 10-20% for 3-5 min. I only use glass. Borosil most of the times. Or microwave safe glass.
You do not want your Juice temp to cross 100c. I use my wifes baking temp or my non contact infra red temp measuring gun. To keep an eye on the temps.
Dont panic if you cross 100c. You want to keep it under 150c.-180c. But around 100 is what works best. Doing anything in plastic is a big no-no for me.
It has to be glass. Too may reasons to explain here.
You will find a setting which will allow you to turn on your microwave and leave it running for 10 min.
All the Power % setting does is it times the on / off. I dont think it actually fires the microwave at 10%. Not sure. But the feeling I have is that when you pick the power % it just rotates the plate with the magnetron off.
As to how Im getting so little juice. Its easy you use something like ever clear or alcohol. Most of it evaporates. Another method is
I put my juice in a borosil test tube. And leave my SMD hot air gun at 200c hitting the tube. This removes any water vapour. I leave this on over night and the next morning my tube level will be half. Again you dont want the temp to cross 150c. Just hovering around the 100c mark or under to get water to evaporate. PG Evaporates at 180c.
I then use a Murku maker to press the juice out.
https://www.google.co.in/search?q=m...Lc8AWF64DgAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=775
I just use a super fine mesh at one end. This clogs up fast. And then the pressure just causes the juice to get squeezed out behind the plunger. Where I have drilled a hole and drain. My leaf is never soaking in juice. Its just damp. And the way I do it. Put the pressure on. Leave it for some time. Come back and put some more pressure on. As the juice is pressed out of the leaf. You get to apply more pressure.
Also I have found some leaf produce very little or no gunk. But these are the ones that have very mild flavors. The logic is simple.
WHen they cure the leafs some guys soak the leaks or spray them. Some guys dont.
Ive tried washing the leafs that cause gunk. But you then land up washing away the flavor or watering it down.
For example the leaf from Andhra which is sprayed with Molasses causes the most gunking.
Also has the most amazing sweet taste to it. Im sure they spray a lot more stuff on it.
The leaf from Mysore and Hassan which is raw leaf cured by burning coffee plants to dry them. And have nothing sprayed on them. Cause the least gunk.
My nets mix well with any of the other Tobacco Flavors for a very distinct nice vape.
Honey Tobacco, Ry4, RY4 Double, RY1, RY Asian, Hangsen Indian, Camel etc. All you need is a few drops.
If you smoke it in a genny. You will have what I call Clot formation. (See thread by Halo e-juice user asking what this clot is).
Then you just throw the clot out. It never climbs the wick. And the gunking is less.
I have found that in a full tank off juice i.e. 4.5 ML. All I need is 4 drops off my NET. And the flavor hit is strong.
For the real buzz. I still have to mix 50-50 i.e. 50% my net and 50% a Diy flavor.
With the 4 drop method my coils are not gunking any more than say the Hangsen flavors. Im vaping Indian, RY4, Camel and they all tend to coat the coils.
With build up.
To answer some of the questions.
a. Nothing works as good as the microwave for speed steeping or extraction. Its not the temp. Its how long you maintain that temp. Ask Granny how she made pickles. They would leave it out in the sun. Why ?. Its the long hours of heat not how hot that does the work.
My microwave is 950 watts. And I run it at 10-20% for 3-5 min. I only use glass. Borosil most of the times. Or microwave safe glass.
You do not want your Juice temp to cross 100c. I use my wifes baking temp or my non contact infra red temp measuring gun. To keep an eye on the temps.
Dont panic if you cross 100c. You want to keep it under 150c.-180c. But around 100 is what works best. Doing anything in plastic is a big no-no for me.
It has to be glass. Too may reasons to explain here.
You will find a setting which will allow you to turn on your microwave and leave it running for 10 min.
All the Power % setting does is it times the on / off. I dont think it actually fires the microwave at 10%. Not sure. But the feeling I have is that when you pick the power % it just rotates the plate with the magnetron off.
As to how Im getting so little juice. Its easy you use something like ever clear or alcohol. Most of it evaporates. Another method is
I put my juice in a borosil test tube. And leave my SMD hot air gun at 200c hitting the tube. This removes any water vapour. I leave this on over night and the next morning my tube level will be half. Again you dont want the temp to cross 150c. Just hovering around the 100c mark or under to get water to evaporate. PG Evaporates at 180c.
I then use a Murku maker to press the juice out.
https://www.google.co.in/search?q=m...Lc8AWF64DgAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=775
I just use a super fine mesh at one end. This clogs up fast. And then the pressure just causes the juice to get squeezed out behind the plunger. Where I have drilled a hole and drain. My leaf is never soaking in juice. Its just damp. And the way I do it. Put the pressure on. Leave it for some time. Come back and put some more pressure on. As the juice is pressed out of the leaf. You get to apply more pressure.
Also I have found some leaf produce very little or no gunk. But these are the ones that have very mild flavors. The logic is simple.
WHen they cure the leafs some guys soak the leaks or spray them. Some guys dont.
Ive tried washing the leafs that cause gunk. But you then land up washing away the flavor or watering it down.
For example the leaf from Andhra which is sprayed with Molasses causes the most gunking.
Also has the most amazing sweet taste to it. Im sure they spray a lot more stuff on it.
The leaf from Mysore and Hassan which is raw leaf cured by burning coffee plants to dry them. And have nothing sprayed on them. Cause the least gunk.
My nets mix well with any of the other Tobacco Flavors for a very distinct nice vape.
Honey Tobacco, Ry4, RY4 Double, RY1, RY Asian, Hangsen Indian, Camel etc. All you need is a few drops.
If you smoke it in a genny. You will have what I call Clot formation. (See thread by Halo e-juice user asking what this clot is).
Then you just throw the clot out. It never climbs the wick. And the gunking is less.
Hi all
I have looked at the problem with gunked up coils for a while, like a lot of you here.
The reasons why the coils gunk up are because of the tobacco micro particles, but mainly the sugars. I don't know if we want to remove all the sugar and "flavor" particles.
Other major contributing factors are the heat of the coils, coil wire size, coil inside diameter and the lack of proper juice flow to the coils.
Looking at the coils and juice flow issues.
Smaller diameter coils...lets say 1/16", in general heat up quicker and get hotter in short burst then larger diameter coils. All things being equal.
Also smaller diameter coils burn juice faster in short burst.
Ok. All things remaining equal.
Looking at:
1/16" diameter coil at 28 gauge, 5 wraps using cotton as the wick. Lets say at the coil this setup can hold 1ml of juice. (of course 1ml is too much juice, but easier to work with in this example)
If a short burst boils off 1ml of juice in lets say 2 seconds, then in a 6 second burst the wick material would have to replace the juice at the coil 2 times with in the last 4 seconds. In other words the wick would have to pull 1ml of juice every 2 seconds to maintain the vapor.
Now the wick would be hot at the coil, and would boil the first 1ml of juice within 2 seconds burst. Once the first 1ml is boiled off, the next 1ml would be trying to replace it. This is where one of the problem is.
As the next 1ml is entering the coil....it is being boiled at the outside edges of the coil....because the coil is even hotter after the first 2 seconds. One because there is no juice left in the coil to keep it cool, and second the coil gets hot the longer it burns. Also the coil is hotter in the center, then on the outside edges.
The now concentrated juice left in the center of the coil, and the wicking material starts to burn. This causes the coil to gunk up. As the coil gunks up....the coil "crusts" over. This in turn exacerbates the issue. The crusting cause the coil to no longer hold 1ml of juice...which over a relatively short period of time....causes wicking issues and the dreaded burnt taste.
Ok. All things remaining equal.
Looking at:
1/8" diameter coil at 28 gauge, 5 wraps using cotton as the wick. Lets say at the coil this setup can hold 1ml of juice. (of course 1ml is too much juice, but easier to work with in this example)
In theory....a 1/8" diameter would hold 2mls of juice at the coil, and heat up slower. If the coil were to heat up at the same speed as a 1/6" diameter coil then a 1/8" diameter coil would boil 1ml every 2 seconds.
Without going through a detailed breakdown like above for the 1/16" diameter coil. In theory....a 1/8" diameter coil would go a long way in helping to resolve the issue with gunked up coils.
Now saying all that.
I have been using 1/8" and 3/32" diameter coils at 26 gauge on a mechanical mod for over a year. Not the same coil...I do have to change them out every week or so.
For all intents and purposes....gunked up coils are a thing of the past for me.
I don't get the same vapor production I use to get using a smaller diameter coil...but I am not a cloud chaser....I am a flavor chaser.
Some key point I have learned over the year with a 1/8" coil.
1. Don't twist the cotton in the coil. If you twist it, untwist it when it is in the coil.
2. Don't over pack the coil...and don't under pack the coil.
3. Don't pile your cotton under the coil.
4. Raise the coil up a bit higher, make sure it has air around it to breath.
5. Best RDA I have used is the Magma....the cotton is controlled better in this RDA.
6. Don't run dry. Always keep the dripper properly hydrated.
7. Fresh batteries help a lot.
Hope this helps some out there.
Thanks
Hendo
I have looked at the problem with gunked up coils for a while, like a lot of you here.
The reasons why the coils gunk up are because of the tobacco micro particles, but mainly the sugars. I don't know if we want to remove all the sugar and "flavor" particles.
Other major contributing factors are the heat of the coils, coil wire size, coil inside diameter and the lack of proper juice flow to the coils.
Looking at the coils and juice flow issues.
Smaller diameter coils...lets say 1/16", in general heat up quicker and get hotter in short burst then larger diameter coils. All things being equal.
Also smaller diameter coils burn juice faster in short burst.
Ok. All things remaining equal.
Looking at:
1/16" diameter coil at 28 gauge, 5 wraps using cotton as the wick. Lets say at the coil this setup can hold 1ml of juice. (of course 1ml is too much juice, but easier to work with in this example)
If a short burst boils off 1ml of juice in lets say 2 seconds, then in a 6 second burst the wick material would have to replace the juice at the coil 2 times with in the last 4 seconds. In other words the wick would have to pull 1ml of juice every 2 seconds to maintain the vapor.
Now the wick would be hot at the coil, and would boil the first 1ml of juice within 2 seconds burst. Once the first 1ml is boiled off, the next 1ml would be trying to replace it. This is where one of the problem is.
As the next 1ml is entering the coil....it is being boiled at the outside edges of the coil....because the coil is even hotter after the first 2 seconds. One because there is no juice left in the coil to keep it cool, and second the coil gets hot the longer it burns. Also the coil is hotter in the center, then on the outside edges.
The now concentrated juice left in the center of the coil, and the wicking material starts to burn. This causes the coil to gunk up. As the coil gunks up....the coil "crusts" over. This in turn exacerbates the issue. The crusting cause the coil to no longer hold 1ml of juice...which over a relatively short period of time....causes wicking issues and the dreaded burnt taste.
Ok. All things remaining equal.
Looking at:
1/8" diameter coil at 28 gauge, 5 wraps using cotton as the wick. Lets say at the coil this setup can hold 1ml of juice. (of course 1ml is too much juice, but easier to work with in this example)
In theory....a 1/8" diameter would hold 2mls of juice at the coil, and heat up slower. If the coil were to heat up at the same speed as a 1/6" diameter coil then a 1/8" diameter coil would boil 1ml every 2 seconds.
Without going through a detailed breakdown like above for the 1/16" diameter coil. In theory....a 1/8" diameter coil would go a long way in helping to resolve the issue with gunked up coils.
Now saying all that.
I have been using 1/8" and 3/32" diameter coils at 26 gauge on a mechanical mod for over a year. Not the same coil...I do have to change them out every week or so.
For all intents and purposes....gunked up coils are a thing of the past for me.
I don't get the same vapor production I use to get using a smaller diameter coil...but I am not a cloud chaser....I am a flavor chaser.
Some key point I have learned over the year with a 1/8" coil.
1. Don't twist the cotton in the coil. If you twist it, untwist it when it is in the coil.
2. Don't over pack the coil...and don't under pack the coil.
3. Don't pile your cotton under the coil.
4. Raise the coil up a bit higher, make sure it has air around it to breath.
5. Best RDA I have used is the Magma....the cotton is controlled better in this RDA.
6. Don't run dry. Always keep the dripper properly hydrated.
7. Fresh batteries help a lot.
Hope this helps some out there.
Thanks
Hendo
Last edited:
You are right about the sugars molasses in particular. The other issue is TAR.
Im going to have to read your article at least a few times to understand it. And I will try your idea on coil sizes.
From my side I have over the past few months moved to larder and larger coils. Started at 1.5mm and am now at 2.5mm. Not sure if this ties in to what your saying.
I still think there is a lack of understanding on the 3 things going on here.
a. WTA (Alkaloids and Nic only zero flavor).
b. NET (Some Alkaloids all the flavor).
c. Tobacco Absolute (Nic + Alkaloids + Flavor)
This is my understanding.
I have found a company that is willing to take leaf from me and give me Tobacco Absolute.
This Absolute is very very different to the ones I managed to source from the USA. The one I got from the USA was thin and diluted down like may be 1% ratio.
What I got was a thick paste. So think that some PG has to be added just to get it to pour. PG is also added as a preservative to prevent mould from forming.
This stuff can be added to any Tobacco juice. And it changes the taste. It gives you the alkaloids and it does not gunk the coils.
For obvious reasons I dont want to post the process. Cause it may get me banned.
Of all the methods I have tried I think this Tobacco Absolute makes the most sense to me.
You get about 50 Grams for every 1 KG of leaf.
The taste is very much like an analogue and you can mix it at any ratio you like with your juice. Im doing 1%.
The taste seems to depend on the Type of Leaf used. Right now what I have was done using Mysore Leaf.
The process involves dissolving in and Alchol base and the CO2 is used to cause layers. This much info I have seen others also post. So can share.
Its not something that I can DIY. Rather it makes sense to find somebody who can do this and just give them the leaf. This process also removes the Tar. Hence the lack of gunking.
If warmed up when mixed with your DIY juice. There is no black ring. There is also no clot formation in genny tanks as reported by some Halo e-juice users. And as observed with my super concentrated net.
As to extracting the sugars. I have thought of using yeast to react with and consume sugar but that did not work out so well.
Im going crazy with my Absolute. Mixing it up with everything from M-type, to Indian Tobacco to RY4 to Honey Tobacco.
Im going to have to read your article at least a few times to understand it. And I will try your idea on coil sizes.
From my side I have over the past few months moved to larder and larger coils. Started at 1.5mm and am now at 2.5mm. Not sure if this ties in to what your saying.
I still think there is a lack of understanding on the 3 things going on here.
a. WTA (Alkaloids and Nic only zero flavor).
b. NET (Some Alkaloids all the flavor).
c. Tobacco Absolute (Nic + Alkaloids + Flavor)
This is my understanding.
I have found a company that is willing to take leaf from me and give me Tobacco Absolute.
This Absolute is very very different to the ones I managed to source from the USA. The one I got from the USA was thin and diluted down like may be 1% ratio.
What I got was a thick paste. So think that some PG has to be added just to get it to pour. PG is also added as a preservative to prevent mould from forming.
This stuff can be added to any Tobacco juice. And it changes the taste. It gives you the alkaloids and it does not gunk the coils.
For obvious reasons I dont want to post the process. Cause it may get me banned.
Of all the methods I have tried I think this Tobacco Absolute makes the most sense to me.
You get about 50 Grams for every 1 KG of leaf.
The taste is very much like an analogue and you can mix it at any ratio you like with your juice. Im doing 1%.
The taste seems to depend on the Type of Leaf used. Right now what I have was done using Mysore Leaf.
The process involves dissolving in and Alchol base and the CO2 is used to cause layers. This much info I have seen others also post. So can share.
Its not something that I can DIY. Rather it makes sense to find somebody who can do this and just give them the leaf. This process also removes the Tar. Hence the lack of gunking.
If warmed up when mixed with your DIY juice. There is no black ring. There is also no clot formation in genny tanks as reported by some Halo e-juice users. And as observed with my super concentrated net.
As to extracting the sugars. I have thought of using yeast to react with and consume sugar but that did not work out so well.
Im going crazy with my Absolute. Mixing it up with everything from M-type, to Indian Tobacco to RY4 to Honey Tobacco.
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